Timed fill

[Chetlaham]

I see many members referring to timed fills in vintage machines, but how do these work? I've seen pics where the dial says heavy, normal, light yet its somehow its timed fill? And how did they stop these machines from over flowing if something goes wrong?

 

[tomturbomatic]

Some timed fill timer dials have fill periods, like Norges and Maytags, for example. Others like Frigidaire allowed the user to select the wash time when the machine's timer is set. Timers with the separate fill period on the timer dial were easier to set for a partial fill for the wash, BUT the wash time had to be manually reset AFTER the fill was complete if a shorter wash time was desired. In these machines, the rinse fill was full unless the user manually shortened the fill period. Machines like the Frigidaires where the wash time could be selected at the start of the cycle had to incorporate a mechanism that allowed the user to select a regular load or a small load which speeded up the timer to make the fill shorter. This mechanism speeded up the timer advancing so the entire cycle was shorter, but the rinse fill was automatically shortened.

Finally, there was no fail safe mechanism in the Maytags if the water level overflowed. With the solid tub machines, the pump often ran when the motor did so as long as the machine was running, at least some of the water was pumped out while the washer was running, but when it stopped, flooding could happen.

 

[daveamkrayoguy]

Quite surprised how many vintage washers have them and the Temperature being the sole knob outside of the timer dial, versus the (metered) Water Level being that and the Temp. incorporated in the timer...

-- Dave

 

[norgeway]

Grew up with Frigidaires

And we never had any problems.

 

[Chetlaham]

@tomturbomatic:

Ok- a bit confused here. Are you saying that on Frigidaires when you pull the timer on either heavy or light, it starts a separate timing sequence that allows for a fill and then starts washing based on the time selected?

 

[johnrk]

timed fill

My mother had a Frigidaire in the sixties and never had any problems with it. Replaced with a Filter-Flo in the late 70's and I think it was metered. I think my 1977 Filter-Flo was metered.

BTW I do have a half-dozen Consumer Reports magazines testing washing machines from 1950 into the 1980's--the regular issues. I'd be happy to scan and post if anyone is interested.

 

[tomturbomatic]

Not exactly separate, but built into the time selected. In fact, the instructions in the owner's manual for the WI-61 for dealing with over sudsing illustrate this:

1. Stop washer by pulling cycle selector OUT.
2. If excess suds have stopped the washing action, wait one minute and push the Motor Protector Button (located under the control panel) back IN.
3. Advance Cycle Selector to Heavy Soil setting and push IN. Then immediately pull the Cycle Selector OUT and turn to the RIGHT 5 clicks and push back IN. This starts washer agitating and the water pump will begin pumping out excess suds.
4. After about 3 minutes, pull Cycle Selector OUT, turn to SPIN and push back IN. This is usually enough to get rid of excess suds and the washer will then continue with the rest of cycle.

Cycle Selector is the fancy term for timer dial. The reason for this procedure is that the tub needed to be stationary during the initial pumping out process to help get the suds level low enough that the spinning tub does not whip up more suds and trip the motor overload protector by spinning against the resistance of an outer tub full of suds. It is generally at the initial spin portion of the cycle that this would occur.

From this procedure, you can see that the first 5 increments of the wash cycle are the wash fill in some Frigidaire timers. I have a less deluxe model from 1965 and the timer is different. At the start of wash, there are two settings: Large Load and then two clicks further, Small Load. This allows for adjusting the fill amount without a separate switch with large or small load settings that adjusted the speed of the timer. This machine has to be started at one of the two positions on the wash dial and the rinse fills the tub completely.

The WO65-2 does not have a provision for a less than full fill unless you advance the timer two increments AFTER starting the fill.

Let me know if you have further questions.

 

[Chetlaham]

Ok- I get this. Less time, less water for a smaller load. But what about washers where you have "Heavy" "Normal" and "light" with a timed fill? Or am I thinking of something that does not exist.

 

[thomasortega]

as far as I remember the frigidaires had some kind of second timer over the main timer.

This way the user could select heavy, normal or light, but always have the fill time added to the cycle.

Maybe I can be wrong... I'm not that experienced with vintage American washers.

 

[Chetlaham]

Thats what I am thinking, but I've never had the chance to play around with such a timer or read about how it works.

 

[tomturbomatic]

No matter where you started the Frigidaire timers with Heavy, Normal and Light, the first 5 increments were for the fill so you got a full fill and the selected wash time UNLESS you selected a SMALL load in which case the whole cycle was 2/3s of the total length of a Normal Load cycle. This is graphically illustrated on the timer dials of the 1957 and 1958 TOL models. There was only one timer. If you look at the timer dial, there was a whole lot of wash time between light soil and SPIN. That was wash time AFTER the fill.

 

[Chetlaham]

So how does the timer pull that off? If someone pulls the knob in then out couldn't the machine overfill?

 

[brucelucenta]

No because to start a solid tub Frigidaire washer, you pushed the timer knob in, not pull out.

 

[cornutt]

When you stop the machine by pushing/pulling the timer knob, whichever applies, it kills the power to the water valves and they close. There was a Blackstone model that had a timer driven off a gear train from the main motor, which ran all the time. The water valves were purely mechanical and activated by pushrods off of the timer. If the machine lost power during the fill, the water kept running.

 

[yogitunes]

an example of a Speed Queen Time Fill

 

[tomturbomatic]

You could force the machine to overfill and cause the water to overflow from the inner tub into the outer tub, BUT, if you will read what I posted earlier, once the machine starts agitating, the pump would start pumping water OUT of the machine's outer tub so that well before the time that the wash period came to an end, the outer tub, which could hold the entire inner tub full of water BELOW the inner tub, would be empty and could accept the entire volume of water spun out from the inner tub. In case you have not ever seen the inside of a Frigidiare solid tub washer, the outer tub is twice as deep as the inner tub. It goes almost to the bottom of the machine.

 

[DADoES]

 
The motor, and presumably the belt-driven pump, started immediately with fill on the 1969-ish SQ time-fill machine that my aunt had, so I assume any overflow from initial overfilling would drain while it happened ... yes?

 

[yogitunes]

Yes Glenn, for a banging solenoid SQ, the motor started as soon as you pulled the timer knob out, but on a reversing motor machine, the motor was off during fill...

 

[Chetlaham]

Ok, that makes sense now in regards to solid tub machines. But how did perforated tubs do it? Fascinating subject.