TL or FL? The Answer In European washing-machine !!!

[vivalalavatrice]

How many times you have found yourselves to dicide whether choose among TL or FL washers? That because they have different sistems of washing...

In Europe (at least in Italy) we have been loosing the agitator since the 1958 (loosing any wringer washers and any twin tub washers), when it has been producing the first tumble action FL washers (I don't remember whether it has been produced by Cady or Rex, now both brand of Electrolux).
In the following years Rex produced the first ITALIAN TL washer (it was a portable TL washer), BUT it was with horizontal axis!!!

Now the majority of the Italian washers are FL washers, only 15% are TL washers, often owned because of the small dimensions, but I believe that none remebers agitators!
French people appreciate TL more than Italian, infact they own more TL than FL (often French apartements are very small!)... Think that they have TL drier and INCREDIBLE combo w/d with TL horizontal axis!!!!See on www.brandt.fr
In Italy combos are ONLY FL , as drier too.

At the end, here there's not the problem of the sistem washing but the choice is only between the loading sistems: both have horizontal axis and so tumble action!

In US the last machine which seems to our TLW is the 1947 Launderall. Now a similar sistem is using by Staber washers.
"Vote" for TL with H/axis! You may have TLW with the EFFICIENCY of the FLW...

Good Bye and Merry Christmas everyone!!!

PS: Sorry for my worst english!!!!

 

[vivalalavatrice]

My first time here

Hi everyone, I'm Diomede and the one above is my first post!
I love washers and I look at your website everyday... I hope in many replies!
BYE!

 

[toggleswitch]

Long live the washer..great name.

Bienvenudo!

 

[foraloysius]

Hello Diomede,

Welcome to the club. My name is Louis (some people call me Luigi) and I'm from the Netherlands.

As far as I know the first frontloader was produced in 1954 by the German company Constructa. And already in 1950 there was an H-axis toploader on the market. That one was made by V-Zug, a Swiss company.

Aside from the Staber there are indeed no H-axis toploaders on the American market. I wonder how long that will take. It would be wonderful if Miele or Bosch would sell one of their toploaders on the other side of the big pond.

Enjoy the site!

 

[askomiele]

Is'n it Candy in stead of cady?

Hello belgium is calling!!
Welcome here!!!

Yes you are right my dear. Constructa was the first with an automatic frontload washer. They were simulary with the Miele's.

Well that would be a good idea. Miele or Bosch producing H-axis toploaders!!
Hopefully they are comming soon!

 

[askomiele]

Is'n it Candy in stead of cady?

Hello belgium is calling!!
Welcome here!!!

Yes you are right my dear. Constructa was the first with an automatic frontload washer. They were simulary with the Miele's.

Well that would be a good idea. Miele or Bosch producing H-axis toploaders!!
Hopefully they are comming soon!

 

[askomiele]

Oops two times posted. Well maybe it's because it's right!!

 

[frigilux]

Welcome, Vivalalavatrice! It is wonderful to have an Italian in the club. My mother was from Veroli, Italia. Don't worry, your English is no worse than ours!

 

[petek]

Hi Diomede

Welcome, and don't worry about the English it's fine.

 

[frontloadfan]

European Influence on American FL

Hi!

I live in the San Francisco Bay Area in the U.S. Just wanted to give my perspective regarding washing machines. I remember growing up in the midwest and my mom used a ringer type washer. The machine consisted of a large tub with an agitator in the middle. She would turn it on after first filling in with water from a hose. After the clothes had washed she would use a hose that was connected to the base of the machine and drain out the wash water and then she would fill up with water again to rinse.

After the machine has rotated as much as she wanted she turn off the drum part of the machine and then she would drag out the clothes and stick the clothes through two rollers that were turning. I can remember her saying you had the be careful as the rollers would sometimes break buttons. After the clothes were wringed out, they were ready to hang.

What I described was very early in my life. I would say my mom used this machine until early 60's. About that time she got her first "automatic", which was a top loader. From what I can tell, there was a period here in the U.S. that you didn't see front loaders anywhere other than laundramats. You would go to stores and the only type of washing machines available were top loaders.

Then I bought my house in 1996. I had always enjoyed seeing the front loader run in the laundramats. I was delighted to find that they were now selling front loaders! At that time, I saw only two machines available. There was the Maytag front loader and the Frigidaire FL. I was drawn to the Maytag due to its larger capacity and the larger door. However, the salesperson directed me to the Frigidaire due to superior reviews in Consumer Reports. While I really liked the larger size of the Maytag, I really liked the exterior looks of the Frigidaire better with the glass doors (whereas the Maytag had just a solid metal door). The superior review coupled with a lower price, made up my mind to go for the Frigidaire. I should mention that Frigidaire also made the same front loader for other brands including Kenmore and GE.

Any case, when I got the machine I noticed it came with a video. It was really interesting as the video decribed how Frigidaire had done extensive research to manufactor the washer, including using designs from front loaders in Italy. I really loved the machine, but earlier this year the bearing went out (fairly common problem). I elected to go with the new Maytag Neptune, which was made by Samsung in South Korea. I found it to be a good machine, but the individual machine I ended up with had some flaws. I had three service calls and at the end there were still problems, so I elected to return it for a Kitchenaid.

Here in the U.S., Whirlpool is the biggest seller of washing machines. Back in about 2000 they entered the front load market with a really large machine (3.8 cubic feet). In addition to making the machine for the "Whirlpool" label as the Duet, they also make it under the Kitchenaid label (their own upscale brand) and for Sears under the name Kenmore. Any case, I got the Kitchenaid version. It came with a DVD in which they pointed out that they make their front loaders in Germany.

To conclude this story, now when you go into stores, you see all kind of front loaders! I went to Home Depot the other day and counted four different brands of Maytag front loaders.
They have the huge one made by Samsung, a medium size Neptune that looks very much like the Samsung, but is slightly smaller, the older version of the Maytag Neptune (which has no glass in the door) and a really small, glass doored front loader.

In addition to Maytag, Whirlpool, Kenmore, Kitchen Aid front loaders, you also see front load washers by Bosch (an European company but they make the front loaders here in the U.S.). Fridaire still makes the smaller front loader (3.1 cu. ft.), but has now come out with a larger (3.5) front loader as well. The most recent addition is a brand new front loader by GE that is made in China.

Front loaders are really growing in sales. One of the things that hold them back somewhat is price. You can get a really decent top loader for $500. A really decent front loader will run between 1,000 and 1,300. Even an basic front loader will generally run $700 or so.

 

[toggleswitch]

downward spiral....

The cost of American F/L-ers should come down as:

1- The novelty wears off
2- The style (of washer) becomes the expected norm.
3- Fixed costs are spread over a larger number of units(sales/mfg. volume).
4- Kinks are worked out and perhaps parts (sizes /tolerances/gauges, etc) within a brand name are standardized/ perfected.
5- Sales of T/L-ers (dut to water use) is prhoibted by law. Right now, they are avaialbe to capture the consumers who requre a low price-point. F/L-ers eill eventaully have to be made avaialble to do that, as time progresses.
6- A new exterior size "standard" evoles into being. Then any machine can replace any other as is the case now with T/L-ers that are (generally speaking) all 27 x 27 inches. (63 x 63cm )

 

[toggleswitch]

68 x 68 cm.

 

[vivalalavatrice]

Thanks everyone very much!

I'm pleasent to have found so many replies to my post!
If I'll find some spare time in the future I'll post you the story of how I fell in love with washers... I think it would be interesting the story of a 3-years-old child running in the rain to reach his mother... no more.
You will read the story in the Imperial forum (when I will have finished to write it), because everething begun with a 1981 Sangiorgio (now it's a brand of the French Brandt) FL washer.
In the same story I also tell something about my actual new TL (with H/axis remember!) washer.

Best wishes for a Merry Christmas, and Happy new year!
Good Bye!
Diomede

 

[foraloysius]

Never heard of Sangiorgio before, you learn something new every day here! Would you have pictures of the Sangiorgio machine?

Best wishes for you too,

Louis

 

[sudsmaster]

Luigi wrote:

"As far as I know the first frontloader was produced in 1954 by the German company Constructa. And already in 1950 there was an H-axis toploader on the market. That one was made by V-Zug, a Swiss company."

As far as I know, the first residential front loader was produced by the US company Bendix in 1937. It was a solid mount machine but built to run on 110 volt circuits, and had a drain pump so it didn't need a gravity drain.

I remember a later model Bendix, circa about 1947, running in our cellar in the 50's. It was a classy looking machine, with its clean Deco styling. I think Unimatic has an example in his private collection. It also washed quite well, as I recall.

 

[foraloysius]

Sudsmaster, you are quite right. I should have said the first European frontloader. And also the first European H-axis toploader.

 

[spee_man]

TL or FL?

Merry Christmas (or happy Hollidays?)

I think, there is no difference between an H- Axis FL or TL! it just because TL dont need as much space as an FL. American washers, in my opinion, cant clean clothes as gentle as Euro machines. And the water consumption is higher. But at least they make much more fun I wish I could own one! It's possible to get one, but the installation is very complicated! Are there TL in the us wit integrated Heater and 220V (maybe from a Laundromat)?

 

[kenmore1978]

FL machines in US

FL machines never COMPLETEY died in the US, though it it did get to the where there was only one manufacturer (White-Westinghouse) that made them

 

[brisnat81]

TL with Heater

Hi Spee_man

We have TL machines with heaters up until the early 80's. However since then I dont think there are any left.

It used to take about 2.5 hours to heat the water to 60degC and during that time the machine would just soak.