Totally UnAppliance Related But... GM To Cut 25,000 Workers

[launderess]

General Motors, once makers of the famous Frigidaire line of appliances including "Jet Action" washers, is reducing it's blue collar work force by 25,000 workers in three years.

Sad, very sad day for American manufacturing and for those workers at GM. It is going to be hard to replace a pay check/benefits like what many are used to.

If interested,here is more:

http://www.freep.com/news/statewire/sw116885_20050607.htm

 

[Cybrvanr]

It's pretty sad really what's happening to GM. My family has always been a fan of GM products. From the classic Fridigaire appliances you mention, to the variety of really neat cars over the years.

GM's has taken some risks when it comes to innovation, sometimes they have come out to be very good...like the Chevrolet small-block V8, or the Saturn vehicles, or sometimes they are a little disasterous...like the Vega, or their venture into diesels. GM has endured, and many of the innovations that they have created have become a common part of our lives today. For instance refrigeration, and the automatic transmission. Despite the engineering risks the company has taken, the company has always been dragged down by bad mangement practices, and unfortunatley, it looks like it's finally catching up with them. They blame their losses on retirement plans that are dragging on their prophitability, but I see many problems at GM that go far beyond this:

The selling off of divisions and component builders. GM used to produce everything "in-house" For instance, their automotive air conditioners were Fridigaires, and Delphi used to be their electronics division. Nowadays, they have sub-contracted out for may of their components, which makes it very hard to regulate the quality, price, and supply/demand. I guess this was done to make a quick buck on the stock market, but unfortunatley, it has cost the company some very reliable, well-known sources of income.

GM needs to make its vehicle lines more distinctive and unique, the way they were before the eighties, when they just started making 5 flavors of the same vehicle. Instead of selling the same body style on all the different nameplates, they need to give each nameplate a unique with it's own body styles. I don't think it matters that each nameplate does not have a "full prodct line" but that each one is good at what their character is. (SAAB does NOT need an SUV!!!)

One of the most interesting things I have noticed is the condition of their factories in comparason to the foreign factories here in the USA. If you were to walk into a Honda or Toyota plant, you would find a modern, clean factory that is well managed and very efficient. Walk into a tyipcal Detroit GM factory, and it's a dirty old relic left over from the "smokestack industry" days of the indstrial revolution...no wonder they can't keep up in the modern market. GM employees may be able to correct me on this, but when I was up in Detroit, I was aghast and the poor condition of the manufacturing facilities up there!

I sure hope they can pull out of this problem, and can get themselves straight, there's a lot of history in them. Typically only two things happen during a struggle...either one comes out stronger, or the challenge overcomes them

 

[mayken4now]

And Yes

It does relate to the fall of Frigidaire. The same sort's of excuses and lack of plant modernization led to the fall of the horrilbe divorce in 1979 with the appliances. Now, 26 years later here comes the vehicles from the same company making the same mistake.

There was a detailed thread posted sometime ago about this. It was quite interesting and had detailed information quoted from a Frigidaire factory employee of how it was and what had happend.

Steve

 

[ironrite]

And GM's not alone in the layoff department. I may be one of the 1000 or so let go from Ford Credit later this month. We have another two weeks to see how the axe will fall.

The reason? Declining vehicle sales and lack of people using manufacturer financing. A lot of folks going through their home equity lines and other sources.

I posed the question to another board of how did the manufacturers stay in business all these years? Each Fall there was the anticipation of the new models. You could easily tell a Mercury from a Ford, a Buick from a Chevy or Pontiac. New colors, interiors, options, features. Yes, some of the lines shared some body components, but somehow most of the manufacturers were able to stamp out a new fender or tail light and remain in business. There wasn't really an answer to my question. And I ask this same question at work, again no real answer.

Certainly people want good quality and reliability, especially at the cost of cars today. But like most things in life, in my opinion, it's going to be the styling that first gets your attention.

 

[dalangdon]

HELOC financing for cars?

"A lot of folks going through their home equity lines and other sources. "

Now THAT's scary - people literally mortgaging their future, and what is usually their biggest investment, for cars. If the real estate bubble really is a bubble, there's going to be a lot of hurting people out there.

Oh well, I still love my Flair.

 

[Kevinpreston3]

GM needs to stop making cars that look

like rental fleets. I have taken part in other threads on other sites on this very topic.

It amazes me that the same company the makes the Corvette, where almost everything is right on it, and there is such pride in it, also makes the Impala (the tail end looks like a face that's been goosed) and what is that one POS, the Aveo or something? What junk. The Pontiac Bonneville nameplate used to be something great, now its a bubble car with a backseat that is uncomfortable. There is not one car in the GM line besides the Corvette, that makes you say, wow, that's nice. Part of this is GMs lack of thrilling designs, the other part is the buying public's demand of SUVs and trucks.

GMs advertising also is terrible. Nissan and Toyota are nonstop in their advertising. They sell well, regardless of the fact that the current Nissan designs all look like scarabs.

My company car, of all things, is a Chevy Venture. This is actually a very nice minivan. When I first was going down to get it, I was repulsed at the idea of driving a minivan, but hey, it is free. I get the car, and guess what, it is actually very nice. Super comfortable, and the utility is unbelievable. However, if I was a consumer in the minivan market, I would not have even thought to check out Chevrolet. Do people even know they make a minivan?

They kill the Trans Am and the Camaro instead of updating it, but they bring out that wierd retro "truck". They kill Oldsmobile, instead of giving it some personality and its own niche. Pontiacs all look the same, and they wonder why the GTO doesn't sell as well as they want. Cadillacs are doing the best out of all the divisions, so maybe they are doing something right. Why doesn't Buick bring out something based on that Riviera show car, something exciting? Why do all the designs for sedans look the same?

On the other side of the coin, consumer's perceptions of quality are askew. Mercedes quality has dropped in the ratings guides, and Buick is very high. Yet, if you ask the typical consumer, they think the Mercedes and BMW are still tops. Further, while some Japanese cars are nice, they usually rank high in INITIAL quality, and their long term viability is typically not considered.

GM, and US car companies in general, have a PR and advertising problem that is just as serious as their product worries.

I grew up in a GM household, so I am very frustrated hearing this. When I was a kid, there was little else more fun then going with my family to test drive new Buicks, Pontiacs and Cadillacs. They were exciting back then, and could be again.

 

[westytoploader]

''Not Intended for Heavy Work''

The Chevy SSR--Another useless "rich toy" vehicle!!

 

[maytagbear]

Industrial Policy--

in this country is an oxymoron, a self-contradictory statement.

Like most of the other real issues facing this country, it is a collection of causes, and almost no-one is willing to tackle the big questions.

Labor is at fault. Management is at fault. The consumers are at fault. The stock market drive of the 80s, when divisions were jettisoned in search of a better "bottom line".....

If we had a single payer health program, also fully funded state pensions and vacations, we would be on a more even footing with the rest of the world.

Furthermore, we need to preserve at least a portion of our heavy industry. If we become more of an importer, it can't be good.

GM is Ohio's largest industrial employer. The plant nearest to me, Lordstown, where they make the new Chevy Cobalt is (seemingly) safe for now.
However, the downstate plants, particularly Moraine might not be as fortunate.

As for the Chevy "Aveo," it is just a rebadged Korean P.O.S.

I was saddened, but far from surprised when GM killed the Oldsmobile line. Ransom E. Olds must be spinning in his grave. This is still a very young country, and we have not developed anything approaching a true sense of our own history, at least not industrially.

Lawrence/Maytagbear

 

[petek]

As I see it the problem with GM and Ford is that they've only until recently twigged to the fact that most people want quality cars more than they want snazzy designs. Toyota isn't becoming the world leader because of the look of the Corolla and Camry, they sell because they're high quality and highly reliable cars that hold onto their value. GM and Ford meanwhile pump out cars with questionable reliablity, cheap and flimsy interior appointments and flog them to the masses with lower prices and every conceivable financing scheme they can to sell them. All that's done is delay the inevitable and they haven't been quick enough to make a turnaround and start focusing on quality/reliability. As unfortunate as it is I think this layoff is probably GM's way of making their turnaround, lets hope so. And if the Olds, Mercury nameplates have to go, then get rid of them. Ford got rid of the Mercury lineup in Canada about 4 years ago except for the Marquis and Cougars which were available at Ford Dealerships. Chrysler ditched the Plymouth line here a few years ago as well and just stuck with the Chrysler/Dodge name.. I mean it was silly selling Neons as Plymouths and Dodges..now they're all just Chrysler Neons, Chrysler Voyagers/Dodge Caravans, still too many nameplates but at least it's one less for the same thing.

 

[toggleswitch]

Interst exp.tax deduciton sought.

Quote: A lot of folks going through their home equity lines and other sources. "

2nd Quote: Now THAT's scary - people literally mortgaging their future, and what is usually their biggest investment, for cars. If the real estate bubble really is a bubble, there's going to be a lot of hurting people out there.

AGREED- But IMHO they are using HELOC to be able to deduct the interest (expense) at the end of the year, sine mortgage interest (expense)is tax-deductible and other types are not.

I have had to use my HELOC to pay off personal debt that was amassed while I was a full-time student lately to change careers.

Not mortgaging a car for the fun of it.. LOL..or to show-off.

 

[toggleswitch]

Personally I won't buy a "rice-burner" (Japanese/Korean) at any price but prefer "potato-burners" (American/European).
I don't care how good Japanese cars are perceived as being.

Let's just say having worked for a Japaneses firm, the people's attitude about themselves as compared to others
is QUITE interesting.

Even a Korean, born and raised in Japan can NEVER be a Japanese citizen. Need I say more?

 

[toggleswitch]

Japanese invasion

Have you noticed lately that even senior-seniors are not buying American "tanks" anymore?

If you see no-hair or blue high-hair and knuckles (only) in a Totyota Avalon, have a chuckle and think of Toggle.

Trust me, see one in your state this summer in the left lane at 40 MPH braking for phantasms with Florida plates/tags and you'll LYAO.

Phantasm = actual root of the word "fantasy."
(It ain't really there)

http://dictionary.reference.com/search?q=phantasms

 

[dalangdon]

Hey, I have no problem with HELOC's per se - I have one, and I use it for improvements on my shack. Using it for school is "self-improvement", so that's cool too - any kind of investment is worth using your equity.

It's just that a car is not an "investment" - it starts depreciating the minute you drive off the lot, making it one of the biggest gimmicks they throw at us. That's why I never finance cars. I either save up or buy used.

But I'm a notorious cheapskate - gotta save money for those appliances ;-)

 

[alr2903]

GM did the same thing in the 70's

They could not give large Cadillacs away, sure you remember this if you lined up for gas in the 70's and early 80's. Im not a rocket scientist but when everyone had to have a large SUV, with one person in it, and the many petroleum related issues in the world today, I could see it coming it had to. Just hope we don't have to go back to that d@mn 55 mph speed limit. just my 2 cents alr2903

 

[goatfarmer]

IMHO,GM sunk too many eggs in the SUV basket,because frankly,they had the highest profit margin.But with gas at $2.00 + per gallon,they had nothing to fall back on when people quit buying them.
And when they have a chance to redeem themselves,they shoot themselves in the foot instead.Like discontinuing the F body Camaro/Firebird,instead of keeping it alive and updating it like the Mustang. They hype the new GTO,a rebadged Holden Monaro,give it great performance,with bland ho hum styling.They come out with ,again IMHO,a great vehicle,with a lot of promise,the Chevy SSR.Then they price it out of reach of the average buyer.I don't think Buick,GMC,and Pontiac are long for this world,probably go the way of Olds.Which is sad.....

kennyGF

 

[Kevinpreston3]

Let's talk about

People that think American cars largely take a back seat to quality against everyone else needs to jump into the the 21st century.

While the top spot for quality right now is Toyota, GM is second!

Don't believe it?

From:http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2005/05/18/AR2005051802214.html

"Toyota Motor Corp. led 10 of 18 car and truck categories and General Motors Corp. was best in five, putting the world's two largest automakers at the top of an annual industry quality study.

Honda Motor Co.'s main brand fell out of the top 10 and Nissan Motor Co.'s improved 22 percent in the J.D. Power & Associates survey of new-vehicle owners. "

Honda's touted quality above everyone else is yesterday's news. They are not even in the top 10.

Here's another link, says the same thing:

J.D. Power: Toyota's Lexus most reliable new car - May. 18, 2005

So let's see, Toyota #1, GM #2, and "Buick, Cadillac and GMC brands did better than average."

Please tell me how American cars are poor in quality.

There is nothing wrong with the quality of GM cars. It is management, union, styling and marketing problem. Period.

 

[repair-man]

I have seen the quality ratings too but I just keep geeting burned every time I buy a GM. I had a Toyota Camry (1995 from new) for 8 years. Had a total of 2 problems. In 2003 we traded it in for a GM minivan. (3 kids now) Two and a half years (20k miles) later have had 7 failures. My parents had Buicks and Cadillacs by the time I was old enough to drive. Three Cadillacs total. 1988, 1992, & 1997 - all Sedan Devilles. The nicest cars I ever drove. But every one of them was a nightmare after about 50,000 miles. The only reason my dad put up with it so long was because the next door neighbor was the service manager at the dealership. It was easy to get service. They would call him at work and he would drive home a loaner (always a Camry) and then take their car in to work the next day for service. (If it was driveable) Finally the 1997 had 4 complete different problems in one month and now my parents are part of the above-mentioned "seniors" driving an Avalon. My wifes parents have a 1999 Deville with 40K miles that has reached the same stage. My grandfather has a 2000 Park Ave- same thing. As much as I like GM's cars I just don't have any reason to trust them.

Ed

 

[rickr]

I have been driving GM cars for thirty three years. They used to build exciting,sexy cars years ago. For the most part,the cars they have built after 1985 have been boring. GM is also very arrogant with their dealers and customers. I know this as a fact. I worked as service manager for both a Cadillac and Oldsmobile dealers in the 1980's and 1990's,and had to put up with the GM bullshit for all those years.I left the automotive business in 1998,after working in that field for twenty years.The front wheel drive cars they built in the 1980's were junk. Everything went wrong with them. And the division would only tell me,"We want 100% customer satisfaction!!" And then they would say,"The warranty is 12 Months,or 12,000 miles,not ABOUT 12 Months or 12,000 miles" (make the customer pay for breakdowns caused by poor quality,but make them happy to do so???????) Yea right!!
The quality of their cars is much better now. However they still do not listen to what the customers needs are. And big gas guzzler trucks are the only thing they think people want. The cars,except for Cadillac division are the same boring grandma and grandpa cars they have built since 1985. Want excitement? How about a Buick LeSaber,Park Avenue,or a Pontiac Bonneville? Three words... YUK! YUK!YUK!

At least they have done somthing with the Cadillac division. That is the only car GM has that I would buy. And if I don't care for the Cadillacs the next time I trade cars,I will buy a Lexus or something else. GM really has nothing else to offer for a LOT of people.And I think they are begining to notice... Late again.

 

[appnut]

We were always basically a GM family. I first broke ranks withe the family purchasing a Mazda 626 in 1991--I still have it. Yup, I had a Citation and 2 Olds. I don't think the 2nd Olds would have made it too far past 55,000--it was totaled at 45,000. My sister even worked for a sub of GM. Always bought Olds & Buicks. She bought a small Lexus SUV about 2 years ago and has never been happier. My parents, wre the lucky ones overall. But since the Road Master and two subsequent Buicks, not nearly as goood. Their current LeSabre is only 3 years old--one of the back power windows is already dead and they don't wanna spend $300+ to have it fixed.