Toyota Prius

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I just had a conversation with a long term Toyota dealership mechanic.

The Prius is, according to him, beset by lots of software bugs. It has 11 separate computer control units. They are all supposed to talk to each other, but... The systems need to be reprogrammed on a regular basis. This all sends the Prius owners into a tizzy.

Basically, even the new models, the bugs are not quite out yet. I would wait a few years before jumping on the Prius bandwagon. Sounds kind of like the debut of the HE3T... LOL...

Don't know if the new Honda Civic hybrid will be any more reliable.
 
At this point can't afford a second car-but if I could-would be a Prius.Thats Something Sudsmaster-when I talked to the Toyota techs out here-they commented they didn't have to do much work on Prius.Only thing he mentioned was repairing leaks around the terminals of the early Panasonic traction batteries.After repairing them--he said no problems.The cars are still in use.The batteries(traction)in new Prius and Highlanders are factory warranted for 100,000 mi.Pretty good.I suppose in the California market more Prius have been sold there than Greenville,NC.It sounds like the tech there has seen more of a history of the Prius.They do sell well here though-a surprize-the Highlander Hybrids are common here as well-the dealer has sold any they have ordered and stocked.Mine also has the backseat DVD Player-Tv set.It works well.Wish I could use it while driving--but we know what would happen!!Its good to preveiew movies in the parking lot of Best Buy!!
 
The Honda Civic and Accord Hybrids are not what are known as "full" hybrids, meaning, they can operate soley on electric propulsion alone.

If I'm not mistaken, I remember reading a Popular Mechanics article about how the hybrids work. The Hondas basically replace the torque converter beteeen the transmission and engine with a traction motor generator. Their system is known as an engine assist hybrid. One half of the motor turns with the engine, and the other half turns with the transmission. If you decelrate, the transmission spins faster than the engine, putting power back into the batteries, If the engine spins faster than the transmission, power comes out of the batteries to make up the diff. The honda hybrid motors are significantly smaller in power output than the Toyota synergy system too. Although this system is simpilier, it requires the gasoline engine to operate whenever the vehice is in motion, and you stil have a conventional transmission where you can get mechanical losses

The Toyota hybrids are like a train locomotive, in that there is not mechanical connection between the gasoline engine and the wheels. The electric motor soley moves the vehicle, while the gasoline motor provides electricity. If the traction battery cannot provide enough power, the gasoline motor kicks in to either charge the battery, or provide additional traction power.
 
Yesterday morning when I left work from my mid shift-I had to follow a tractor for a little while-the street is narrow and not easy to pass on.I was going about 30MPH-and my car was running off the traction motor and batteries.the engine switched off.When the tractor pulled off and I accelerated-the gas motor started again.Farmers are getting ready for spring planting here-lots of tractors about in the early morning.--Just as I get off work.The Toyota "Synergy" drive system has both gas and electric motors running into a Constant Variable Transmission.It uses a planetary gear system.Both motors have some mechanical connen tion to the wheels.But yes is many ways the Toyota Hybrids are like locomotives--Both use AC traction.At least the newest generation of locomotives from GE,and EMD.On the French TVG trains their latest locomotives on those use AC traction using Sychronous motors like the Toyota Hybrids.The Synchronous motors in these cases-can act as "Synchronous machines"and act as motors or generators.There were three generations of TVG loco's-DC traction-earliest,AC traction(induction) latest-AC traction synchronous.The Toyota traction system is very much like the TVG system in miniature.Too bad the TVG system doesn't feed its energy back into the system--It just goes to a braking resistor grid like any other locomotive.The TVG AC trains also have "brake batteries" that feed their energy to the traction motors to stop in an emergency if the train overhead feeds fail.You feed DC into any AC motor and it stops RIGHT NOW.DeWalt used that idea to stop their early radial arm saw motors.No waiting for blade coasting.It was a manual electric brake that recrtified the line voltage and fed it to the motor when the "brake" button was pushed.You had to make sure the blade arbor nut was tight!!
 
I was thinking of the new Honda Civic Hybrid, which either just came out or is due out very soon. It will be a full hybrid, but will differ from the Toyota in that it will be geared more towards distance driving economy, than for in-city economy. But according to the car mags I read, most people are getting far lower fuel mileage out of their Priuses than the EPA estimates. I wonder, if perhaps, this may have something to do with the car's systems not working properly all the time due to software bugs. In any case, the Honda's estimated mileage - about 50 mpg in both city and highway - may be more stable than that of the Prius.

What I think is a bit diingenuous is the trend among automakers, like Ford, to apply hybrid technology to SUV's instead of to economy cars. I guess it's nice to have a Ford Escape go from 20 mpg to 27 mpg, but ... if you're going to spend the $$$ on a hybrid, why not get something that gets truly respectable mileage? The Honda Accord is another example - the hybrid actually has more horsepower and better acceleration than its non-hybrid version. So the fuel economy savings are minimal.

Personally I think all cars should, at the very least, have regenerative braking, and some way of putting that saved energy back to work.
 
I have heard very dramatic claims about Prius mileages. Some peope are only getting around 30 MPG's, while others are getting even above 60 MPG's. I think it all depends on how one drives, and what type of conditions they drive in.

I have rode and driven around many people in conventional cars, and have noticed that some people drive very roughly and abruptly with their vehicles. They accelerate very quickly from standing starts, even when there is no apparent need to. When they need to come to a stop, they wait until the last minute, and brake really hard. Frequently, I see drivers not really anticipating traffic very much either, and will accellerate hard and fast to the next block, where the next red signa is awaiting. Tailgating other vehicles is also very wasteful, as it takes constant accellerating and braking to match the speed of the vehicle ahead, because there is no buffer zone. All of these acts not ony waste gas in conventional vehicles, but completely hinder a hybrid system from doing what it does best.

Hard braking activates the hydraulic brakes to pick up what the regenerative system cannot do, and the momentium energy is lost. Fast acceleration means that both the electric system, and the gasoline engine are providing power, which is a less efficient mode. I've seen many Prius drivers that are smart though, and keep the vehicle under 30mph between traffic signals, which minimizes use of the gasoline engine. I imagine those that are complaining about dissapointing fuel mileage in the Prius are ones that are driving the vehicles very poorly, versus any type of electronic or mechanical problem! Luckily, most of the prius drivers I see out on the road keep a nice steady pace, and aren't driving like they are in a NASCAR race.

One last thing that can reduce a few MPGs is the use of the air conditioning in the climate controls system. It is an all electric system, so the gasoline engine may need to run more frequently to recharge the traction battery when you have the AC on. It probably reduces MPG's more in town than on the freeway though. At freeway speeds, the excellent streamlining would be broken up by the open windows. I imagine though wintertime and summertime fuel mileages are a little different when used on the same road & conditions (where the windows are up, and the AC is not on)

Still, hybrid technology can only go but so far in making a vehicle more efficient. Heavier vehicles will have poor in-town mileage because more energy is needed to overcome inertia, and make the vehice move from a standstill. Aerodynamics, and wind resistance plays a big role of fuel economy at highways speeds. SUV's typically get knocked with both shortcomings. They are both heavy, and have very poor streamlining. Streamlining would take away from their "rugged" look, and their raised chassis create considerable wind resistance underneath. The Ford escape is the perfect example of this. It is a full hybrid just like a Prius (and in fact Ford buys Toyota's technology to use in it!). It can only eke out 27 MPG's. It is considerably heavier and boxier than a Prius. Lucklily, many car manufacturers are now starting to build "crossover" vehicles...IE Station wagons again. For example, the Dodge Magnum wagon, a full-size vehicle, gets 27 MPG's on the highway, but is not a hybrid. It's long, low body helps it achieve low wind resistance. Ford also has out a "freestyle" station wagon based on the 500 sedan that also achieves good mileage
 
The Smart forfour is actually a Mitsubishi Colt underneath, just with "smart style" styling. Daimler-Chrysler have now severed ties with Mitsubishi so that may have something to do with the demise of the Smart Forfour.
I looked at the Mitsubishi Colt recently but I thought it was really horrible, cheap, flimsy and tacky looking inside, ugly outside, very impractical. I didn't even bother with a test drive, and I have been a very happy Mitsubishi owner in the recent past.
As an example, when you fold up the rear seat in the Mitsu Colt(for loading in a washing machine for example) the seat has to be lifted in to folded position (it's very heavy) and to keep it in place an elastic "bungee strap" has to be hooked around the headrests of the front seats to hold it up, otherwise it would fall back. In comparison the Honda Jazz has a brilliant seat folding mechanism, the seat base folds up into the seat back, then the whole assembly falls neatly into the floor leaving a completely flat low floor. Unfortunately the Jazz has other things I can't stand such as a space-saver spare tyre and no temperature gauge even as an option.

Chris.
 
Actually, Daimler-Chrysler is still partnering with Mitsubishi. The new Dodge Calibre compact sedan/hatchback, which is a replacement for the Neon, is a joint Chrysler-Mitsubishi development.

I think Chrysler-Daimler did divest itself of a major share of Mitsubishi stock, though.
 
Heat in the Toyota Hybrid cars--I don't know if the Prius has the same heat system as the Highlander Hybrid--The Toyota tech told me that the Highlander has electric heating elements that provide heat when the engine isn't running.It also heats pretty quickly-less than 5min you are comfortable.I would imagine the electric elements put an additional load on the traction battery like the AC compresser in summer.Sorry--I have to have my AC.Esp in the NC climate.Opening windows just doesn't cut it.You are still hot and sticky.I did ask the Toyota people if the heat could be more efficient by using the AC compressor as a heat pump in winter like what you do at home.This would be interesting.
 
It's how you drive it

The Prius is a slow pokey car on the road. You can't drive it fast, or you'll lose the mileage big time. Being hot down here you have to run the ac or sweat your butt off.

All things considered my Bug is still more fun to drive and more consistent with mpg. 2006 is the LAST year for TDI Beetles so get one while you can.
 

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