Transmission oil

[Kenmore73]

Hi,

The Transmission on my Kenmore washer* appears to be all gummed up. I have removed it from the machine and am about to open up the case and survey the situation. If all is well mechanically, I'll simply clean it out and refill it. However, Whirlpool 350572 is SO expensive. Does anybody know exactly what this OEM oil is? What can I use as a substitute? Regular gear lube? What viscosity? Automatic transmission fluid? 30 weight non-detergent motor oil? How about the capacity - 16oz?

Also (forgive the newbie question) do I need to remove that last cam bar before I try to pull the case apart (see photo)?

Thanks very much,

Chris

*My Dad bought this washer new when I was 12 years old!

 

[launderess]

Does This Answer Your Question?

Pipe:

http://appliancejunk.com/forums/index.php?topic=8084.0

 

[kenmoreguy64]

You've asked a couple good questions...

First, the oil used in these transmissions is 60-weight non-detergent motor oil. I've looked for lower cost substitutes, but not found a 60-weight oil anywhere. It may be worth a try again however as this was several years ago.

The Whirlpool oil bottle is 15oz according to my catalog, but others say 16oz. It is indeed very expensive. If not using Whirlpool's FSP oil, I have debated about Valvoline Racing 50-weight oil, as it should be heavy enough, and light on detergent since it's a racing oil. Last I checked Auto Zone had it for $3-something per quart. Heavily detergented oil might cause a foaming condition under a heated operation, but since this gearcase does not get overly warm, and racing oil is light on detergent, I don't think this is truly a big deal. I have yet to try this however.

The link that Laundress provided should be a decent source of info., but in this case the responder who suggested 90-weight material in my opinion is wrong. I think it too heavy and might be a drag on the gears. If this was appropriate, WP would have spec'd it.

To your other question, yes indeed you need to remove the cam bar, otherwise you will not be able to remove the cover. That operation can be a pain, as can putting it back later, but it is almost all the way out already. Just tap it the rest of the way out by using a flat-blade screw driver to push it out toward the front of the gearcase. Clean the plunger before you put it back - it's got some debris or rust on it.

Based on the appearance of your transmission, it looks to me like you have water contamination inside the case. To do this work properly, you need to replace the shaft seal under the cover, which helps prevent future water from entering the case, and bilge from spalshing out as well. You may also have rusted or broken springs underneath, which very certainly should be replaced when you have acces to them.

You should also correct the source of the water leak, which is very likely worn seals in the spin tube and centerpost.

You've done a lot of work to get this far, but you have more work to follow! One thing I can tell you - I have a gearcase here that was at one time easily as fouled as yours. I did what you're talking about - cleaned the entire gearcase, part by part, in a parts washer. Let everything dry, and re-assembled it with new springs and seal, and it's now washed at least 1,000 loads of laundry since 1995.

Feel free to ask further, and good luck.

Gordon

 

[dnastrau]

Motor and gear oil viscosities: 60 ~ 90

Here is a chart that shows the difference between motor and gear oil viscosities. Based on this, a straight 60 weight motor oil looks like it is roughly similar to a straight 90 weight gear oil.

If I were tearing into a transmission, I think I'd use what it calls for instead of trying to save $15 - $20 by substituting a different oil since it is a job that you hopefully won't be doing again for a very long time (if ever.) That's my two cents.

http://www.teamrip.com/viscosity_chart.html

 

[combo52]

OIl FOR WP BD WASHER TRANSMISSIONS

I always used 70, 80 or 90 weight oil in WP BD gear cases and in fact if you have an old slightly worn GC it would be quieter and give a little more protection to use at least 90 weight oil. In reality it is not very critical what type or weight of oil is used, this will be the least of the problems you will ever have with this washer. I actually saw one of these washers run for over four of heavy use with no oil in it at all [ it did finally destroy the gear case and gears, we replaced that gear case]. Just be sure what ever oil you use that it won't harm the two bronze bushings in the top cover as apparently some oil formulations have ingredients that can harm yellow metals. Good luck.

 

[Bob4FrenchFries]

Cost of oil is relative

K73,

I encourage you to spend the money on the recommended oil. You're saving so much money by repairing instead of replacing that the cost is easily justified.

Furthermore, you have invested many hours of disassembly and Internet research with many more to go on this repair project. Add in the cost of solvents, rags/towels and new seals. After all that, why not spend the money for the correct oil?

I hope you find this perspective helpful.

B4FF

 

[Bob4FrenchFries]

Rapco Appliance

Check out Rapco appliance parts on Lorain Rd in Fairview Park, which should not be too far from you. According to Google, they are just past McDonald's on the South side of Lorain Rd and are favorably reviewed. Maybe they have an oil in stock which will do the trick.

Good luck!

Rapco Appliance Parts & Repairs · 22765 Lorain Rd, Fairview Park, OH 44126

★★★★★ · Appliance repair service

maps.google.com

 

[Kenmore73]

Thanks everybody

Hey everybody, thanks for all the advice.

I really appreciate it. All of it.

Those of you who suggest going with the Whirlpool oil - point well taken. Prudent advice. I appreciate it, and I may end up doing just that. However, if a viable alternative exists, for a fraction of the cost, I'm very inclined to learn more and give it a shot. But there's no rush. This is going to take a little while, so I've got some time to learn more and decide what to try. Whatever I go with, it will be WAY better than what I had (keep reading).

I opened the gear case last night and the oil is amazingly thick. Literally the consistency of taffy! Very sticky too, like glue. See the photo below and notice the lumpy area below in the case where I'd disturbed the surface minutes earlier - still lumpy! I actually expected this because of the very gummed up feel of the pulley. But it's still really wild to see it with my own eyes. Anyone seen oil this thick and sticky before? Is this what happens to the oil when the case gets moisture in it, or just what can happen to the oil when it gets used day in and day out for 38 years?

As you might imagine (when I pulled the washer out to do a little troubleshooting) the poor motor was very hot indeed having to work so hard to overcome the taffy in the case. Hope it's OK. Certainly didn't do it any good.

Possible good news: I've actually got an extra motor and transmission (from a 1964 machine) that might be compatible if need be. But plan "A", is to clean out the original gear case, put it back into service and hope the motor is alright. We'll see.

As for cleanup, not sure if the taffy (as I keep calling it) will respond to solvents or not. WD40 seemed to have little effect. I may start by scooping and digging it out with sticks and then go for some serious solvent to clean up the remainder. We'll see.

Well, that's enough of my rambling for now.

Thanks again everybody,

Chris

 

[kenmoreguy64]

Chris -

This definitely looks like a gearcase which has been contaminated. Good gearcase oil is a deep golden color. I've had them where there was still clear water everywhere on top of the oil goo, and one which had dried for 5 years, which literally looked like molasses. I'm not sure what thickens the oil.

My suggestion is to tip the case over and let the glop run out into a catch pan. When you've done that, you can clean the parts with solvent, but make sure it doesn't leave a residue which could attack the new oil. One suggestion I could make if you don't have solvent is to use some gasoline and an old paintbrush. That works really well. Be careful not to loose pieces of the gasket that goes in between the base and the cover.

Please keep us posted!

Gordon