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Olds Wheel Covers

Cuffs054,

You asked about the wheel covers on Oldsmobiles of this vintage.  For some strange reason, Oldsmobile did not "push" full wheel covers.  What most late 50's and early 60's Oldsmobiles had were hub caps and trim rings, with "Deluxe Wheelcovers" a high-price upgrade.  Most of the years these Deluxe covers were available color-keyed to the body color.  They offered about 6 selections in the wheels, so it wasn't possible to get them to match every body color offered.  They were a PITA to deal with because they used 5 (IIRC) spring-loaded clips behind the cover.  The clips were attached to the outer edge of the wheel and the rear of the cover and when the cover was in place were totally concealed.  I'm certain that as a rule only Ninety-Eights and Starfires had them; maybe an occasional Super 88.  Here is an Ebay ad that features a Ninety-Eight Holiday SportSedan with color-keyed wheel covers.  You can zoom in on the ad and get a closer view of the covers.

 

Lawrence

 
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Nice car! I prefer the 1963 Pontiacs to the 1964 models just like I prefer the 1965 to the 1966. I think it's because of the headlights.

Roger, about 4 door hardtops, did you know that it was still possible to buy some Japanese domestic models like the Nissan Gloria with true pilarless 4 door hardtop design in the early nineties? That was many years after Chrysler stopped making them in 1978 (GM had already stopped after 1976 and Ford after 1974).

About Canadian full size Pontiacs, unlike most US models, they also had Chevy-style wipers which are easy to spot (before 1968) and couldn't be ordered with the opposed wipers except a few RHD models that were built for export (most Pontiacs originally exported in other markets were Canadian models). In the US, I think only a few Catalinas had the Chevy style wipers. Most US Pontiacs had the opposed "depress park" wipers like other GM full size cars (Olds, Buick and Cadillac). For the 1967 model year, Pontiac introduced concealed wipers one year before other GM divisions on it's US models but not on Canadian models which kept their exposed Chevy-style wipers.

I'm wondering why GM made Chevy-based Pontiacs (and Beaumonts) in Canada as Buicks and Oldsmobiles built here were mostly like the US models with the same engines and chassis as US models. I even think they had their engines made (or at least assembled?) in Canada just like Frigidaire made it's compressors for the Canadian market in Canada.

My '65 Buick Wildcat is a Canadian model and the only things that distinguishes Canadian from the US models are the standard equipment list, option list and interior trim on some models. On mine (a 1965 Wildcat Custom 4 door hardtop), the interior trim is unique to the Canadian models and it's mostly a mix of Wildcat Custom, Electra 225 and Electra 225 Custom parts ("C" bodies like the Electra 225, Olds 98 and Cadillacs were not built here). The seats in my Wildcat are covered with the same fabric as those in the Electra 225 Custom and the door panels are similar to those in the standard Electra 225 model with the addition of hinged door pulls. This means that the armrest bases look like those in "C" bodies and are made of chrome plated metal instead of plastic. Canadian Wildcats ordered with power windows also had power vents while it was a rare separate option on the US models.
Like many Canadian cars from the 1960s, my Wildcat lacks A/C and tinted glass but it has most other options like the AM-FM radio, rear window defogger, tilt steering, cruise control, power windows, vents, seat, antenna and vacuum trunk release.

Like most full size Buicks from 1958 to 1970 (and even some from 1957), it has 12" finned aluminum brake drums at the front and 12" finned brake drums at the rear. They are pretty decent for drums, much better than the same size (and also finned) cast iron drums used in the LeSabre models with small block engines.

I'm guessing that Pontiac's version with the 8 lug wheels are also good, and they do look good too! The disc brakes on my '67 Riviera with 4 piston calipers are better than the standard aluminium drums but not that much better. I think that's why few Buicks were ordered with disc brakes before they became standard in 1971.

In 1965-68, both US and Canadian Wildcats had a "B" body like the LeSabre but they had a longer 126" wheelbase. I think they were the only "B" body with a 126" wheelbase. In 1963, they had the same 123" wheelbase as this Bonneville. BTW, can somebody tell me what kind of frame was used on the 1963 US "B" body Pontiacs? Canadian Pontiacs had Chevy "X" frames and drivetrains but Canadian Olds had perimeter frames and Buicks had different "X" frames just like the US models. In 1965, they all switched to perimeter frames, but again, different from one division to another.

This is a picture of the Canadian interior in my 1965 Wildcat. [this post was last edited: 5/4/2012-04:11]

philr++5-4-2012-02-37-0.jpg
 
Great cars!!!!

But HORRIBLE transmisions, at least in the 61-64 Olds and Pontiac, I had a 63 Starfire when I was 16 and 17, I found out real quick, the engine was very capable, not so the automatic!! As for drum brakes, I will take them ANYDAY over those miserable discs, I have never owned a car with discs that they didnt warp, either by driving in the mountains in the rain, or by some dummy rotating the tires incorrectly, I got used to the steering and brakes on mid 60s Plymouths, and anything else is like a wagon!One finger will turn the wheel and the slightest nudge of your toe and it will stand you on your head!!
 
Lawrence,
Right you are about the Olds wheel covers. Our 62 Starfire covers where stainless to match the body sash. Both the 64 Starfire which was totaled and the 64 98 (most beautiful of all) had full covers. Olds also had issues with the upgraded covers on the 67 Toronado. Because of the front wheel drive offset and the friggin huge size of the car it wouldn't fit in many of the 'pull through' car washes of the time. The parts man at Bert Smith Olds didn't even ask what we needed when we showed up, just said how many? Dad was a slow learner!

PhilR,
Beautiful car. Your right about the power vent windows, very rare. BTW, the vent windows are not strong enough to crush a pencil. Bro learned that on the 59 98. Dad was not amused.
 
Hans,

Did Olds still use the old style Hydra-Matic in 1964? Buick switched from the Twin Turbine Dynaflow to the ST-400 in 1964 and this was a great transmission. In 1965 and for the next two years, it was improved with the addition of a variable pitch torque converter. That's a feature that Buick's transmissions had since the mid fifties and for some reason, it was omitted on the 1964 ST-400. Nailhead engines in 1964 Buicks didn't like the low stall speed on the 1964 fixed stator ST-400 and they idled roughly. Strangely, the 2 speed ST-300 which was also introduced in 1964 had the "switch pitch" feature from day one. The need for higher stall was mostly at idle so the engine would turn more freely and the idle would be smoother, but that also improved performance as the transmission switched back to high stall speed under acceleration. This setup required quite a few switches on the throttle linkage in addition to the kick-down switch but it was quite effective and reliable.

Cuffs054,

I never tried to crush a pencil with my vent windows but you're probably right! And many have worn gears which don't allow them to close completely. Mine were like that but I had the gears welded years ago and never had problems since! And they sell reproductions (which are relatively expensive) that are made of steel. I guess these are good for a long time (or it's the motor shaft that gets worn with these?). Anyway, the crank operated ones were also fragile...
 
Olds used the Roto Hydramatic from 1961 to 1964. Pontiac used the old four speed Hydramatic in the Bonneville and Starchief, while the Grand Prix and Catalina used the newer Roto Hydramatic. In 1965 both switched over to the new Turbo Hydramatic that was first used by Cadillac in 1964.

I have owned a 1961 Olds Super 88 since 1978. It is a 2 door "bubbletop" I will post a pix of it later.
 
Buick's version of the THM-400 (the Super Turbine 400) was also introduced in 1963 on the 1964 models. It replaced the Twin Turbine Dynaflow of 1963 and the Super Turbine 300 replaced the Dual Path Turbine Drive transmission in cars with smaller engines.

Here, Pontiacs had mostly Powerglides like Chevrolets.
 
PhilR,
Didn't Chevy play with a short lived auto-trans circa 1957? It was an upgrade option from the PowerGlide and if I remember correctly has a GR(?) for 'grade reduction' in place of or in addition to low, sorta like the S 'super' on the Olds
 
Turboglide!

Was what Chevy called it, very similar to Buicks Dynaflow, 1957-1961 I knew several people who had these and liked them, The Roto Hydramatic was the disaster GM made ..IMHO! LOL, For a normal driver it was OK, for a lead footed kid...FORGET IT! The best automatic GM ever made, to my mind was the pre 1956 four speed Hydra Matic,,it was NOT smooth but would really GO! I have a friend with a 49 Cadillac 62 Sedan, completely stock, and if you take off from a standing start and floor it, it will spin when you take off and bark the tires when it changes into second, he claims it is indestructable!
 
That's right, it was the Turboglide. I think it was similar in design to the Dynaflow and Flightpitch Dynaflow transmissions. The Dynaflow had the P-N-D-L-R shift sequence like the old Hydra Matics but the Flightpitch had a P-R-N-D-G, ("G" instead of "L" or "S" and the reverse between the "P" and "N")... Both Pontiac and Olds used the "S" and "L" many years while Buick used either "L" or "L2" and "L1" for the low gears.

G was for grade retard. The regular Dynaflow had two ranges but it didn't shift by itself. If you wanted to accelerate fast, you had to manually shift it to "L" to get more performance. The GR on the Flightpitch and the Turboglide was just to be used to slow the vehicle. Unlike the Hydramatics with their simple fluid couplings (some had two) and more speeds, the Buick transmissions had complicated torque converters and didn't change gears (they were a kind of CVT transmission). The new Turbo Hydra Matic / Super Turbine transmissions for 1964 incorporated both the torque converter and the gear changes... They are very strong transmissions and they are also easier to service. Those with the variable pitch stators are really good transmissions.

About 1963 Canadian cars, I have seen this interesting ad on Kijiji. I have seen 1964 Wildcat 4 door sedans with similar Electra 225 trim built here but this car is a 1963 and it's probably unique... The ad says it's a LeSabre but the car has some Wildcat exterior trim, no emblems and Electra 225 interior trim.[this post was last edited: 5/4/2012-16:09]


philr++5-4-2012-15-05-33.jpg
 
Interesting LeSabre.  The ad says it was custom built, so they could have very well pulled parts from all Buick models.  I much prefer the body of the 1963 Buick to those of the 1964 Buick; especially the Wildcat 4-door hardtop.

 

Regarding the Hydramatic transmission - the sequence was N-D-S-L-R.  No park.  "Park" was added in 1956 with the Jetaway Hydramatic.  Until then, the car was started in Neutral and to park the car you were instructed to shut off the engine in Drive, pull the transmission selector down into Reverse, and set the hand brake.

 

Lawrence
 
I didn't know that older Hydra-Matics didn't have a Park! The only car I have driven with an Hydra-Matic was a friend's '59 Cadillac, and these do not have the "S". If I remember well, they have P N .DRIVE. L R or something like that.

Here's a Canadian 1964 Buick Wildcat 4 door sedan in a junkyard. Similar to the '63 above.



 
Digging way back in the brain, I think you also could push start the early hydros. I sort of remember reading dear Aunt's 54 Caddy manual that gave instruction. Get up to speed, key on, drop into low? It was fun watching all 5' nothing of her pilot that behemoth around Coral Gables.
And speaking from experience one did not want to pull a Powerglide out of park with the engine off and have any hope of getting it back in!
 
That '61 Olds . . .

Such a nice year at Oldsmobile, especially after the studied garishness of the '58-'60 models. It's a shame most of them have disappeared from the road. '62 is really nice as well.
 
Buick and the CVT . . .

There is a reason Buick went their own way with automatic transmissions for so many years. Back in the '30s many attempts were made to provide some form of automation for shifting using a variety of methods: vacuum shift assists, pre-selectors where one selected the next gear using a tiny lever and the gearbox would then change to it when the clutch was pushed, etc. At GM Cadillac and Oldsmobile were the lead divisions for what became the Hydramatic. GM had pioneered the synchronized manual transmission starting in the late '20s but saw the need to move beyond that. As a part of this program experiments were going on with both automatic shifting planetary transmissions and fluid couplings. The Ford Model T had used a manual planetary transmission with two speeds controlled by a foot pedal so all the engineers would have been familiar with the concept; one of the advantages of a planetary gearbox is that it can be shifted under load without a separate clutch. Fluid couplings were also being studied, these allow a car to remain in gear and idling at a full stop and also can smooth out rough shifts. Daimler in England used fluid couplings (they called it the "fluid flywheel") with their manual transmissions for many years in the pre-war era as the coupling made it very easy to drive smoothly, a nice feature on the large luxury cars they specialized in. The first GM automatic was introduced by Olds in '37 using the automatic planetary gearbox but a conventional clutch, which meant the driver still had to de-clutch to stop, and the shifts could be rough. For the first Hydramatic they combined the fluid coupling with the planetary gearbox, which allowed the elimination of the clutch pedal and gave very smooth shifts. It was the first successful true automatic transmission, introduced for the 1940 model year.

 

Buick had a program of its' own in the thirties to develop a CVT, or continuously variable transmission that would seamlessly shift from a low ratio to a high ratio. They were using a toric drive system, basically like two dinner plates held at right angles to one another. One plate was hooked the engine, the other to the drive wheels. By varying the relative position of the plates the gear ratio could be seamlessly changed; there was no actual shifting of gears. The concept was brilliant, but they couldn't find friction materials robust enough to make the system reliable and durable. Once it became obvious that the Hydramatic was both reliable and durable GM management ordered Buick to stop spending money on the toric CVT. For a very short while right before WWII Buick therefore offered the Hydramatic, though this was after Olds did so.

 

An important part of this situation is that while Oldsmobile and Cadillac frequently worked together on projects, Buick saw them both as enemies. Buick fit into the narrow band between Olds and Cadillac, and a well optioned TOL Buick was often more money than a lower end Cadillac. Even the King of England, Edward VIII, had a Buick - that was the car he and "Mrs. Simpson" used when they left England for France immediately after he abdicated the throne to marry her. Technically, that car was a Canadian built Buick and thus a product of the British Empire. Buick also had a loyal customer base who could have afforded Cadillacs but felt them too flashy. As a result of their reputation Buick did not like to be seen following in the footsteps of Olds and Cadillac, not one little bit.

 

During and right after WWII Buick's transmission department was busy creating a new automatic that had to have three virtues: it had to be very, very smooth and thus more luxurious than Hydramatic, it had to be reliable, and it had to have no connection with the Hydramatic Division of GM. Their solution was to use a very simple two speed planetary gearbox that did not shift for itself combined with a fairly sophisticated torque converter, which is itself a more advanced form of fluid coupling. In operation it was the opposite of Hydramatic: Hydramatic relied on four gears to provide the right ratio for conditions and the fluid coupling did little other than add some smoothness and let the car sit still while idling, while Dynaflow didn't shift gears at all during normal operation but relied on the torque converter to vary the theoretical gear ratio. Thus the Dynaflow was a sort of CVT, since gears didn't shift there were no shifts to be felt. In practice it worked well enough, certainly the smoothest automatic on the market. However, it was very inefficient which caused big Buicks to generally be considered inferior at acceleration to Oldsmobiles or Cadillacs. Buick refined and significantly improved the Dynaflow through the early '60s, but like the toric drive CVT it was ultimately a dead end. When GM introduced the Turbo-Hydramatic Buick finally gave up on Dynaflow, but in compensation the Turbo-Hydramatic did have a torque converter instead of the old fluid coupling, and some versions clearly took advantage of Buick's expertise in torque converters. Buick did however refuse to use any form of the name "Hydramatic" for many years and took to calling all of their automatics "Super Turbine" followed by a number.

 

Chevy also did their own thing with automatics, in their case they wanted something cheaper than the Hydramatic. Introduced in '50, that was the two-speed Powerglide. It was cheap and reliable, although by the late '50s Chevy felt the need for something more sophisticated for their upper line models. They solved that problem with the Turboglide, their version of the Flight-Pitch Dynaflow. Most Chevy customers preferred the Powerglide as it was much cheaper, and many of the cars that were equipped with Turboglide were converted to Powerglide if the Turboglide ever failed as it was expensive to repair. For these reasons, very few Turboglides exist today. 

 

 

 
 
The semi-automatic "self shifter" (or AST) transmission that Olds used in 1937-39 was made by Buick and sold to Olds. It wasn't developed by Buick and Buick didn't initially want to use it on it's own cars but it did use it one year only on it's series 40 (in 1938). Buick stopped using it after that because it wasn't smooth and Buick's torque tube didn't help to hide it's roughness... Olds used it one more year in 1939 and it was discontinued after.

As far as I know, Buick never used the Hydra-Matic except maybe on a few prototypes but Cadillac and Olds briefly used Dynaflow transmissions in most of their cars in the 1953 when the Hydra-Matic plant burned.
 

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