amyswasher
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What is the best way to buy TSPP online? Will it work in the dishwasher and washing machine?
TSPP
- Thread starter amyswasher
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sudsmaster
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People have had good luck buying from The Chemistry Store. Just google it.
Yes, it will work in the washer and the dishwasher, although standard dishwasher detergents, unless labeled "phosphate free", usually contain enough. Just to be sure, check the phosphorus level on the box.
Yes, it will work in the washer and the dishwasher, although standard dishwasher detergents, unless labeled "phosphate free", usually contain enough. Just to be sure, check the phosphorus level on the box.
STPP (Sodium TriPolyPhosphate) is the correct compound. I get it from TheChemistryStore.com. 12 lbs lasted a smidgeon longer than one year (Nov 2008 to Nov 2009) using it only for laundry, and that includes giving some samples to several friends. The previous 12 lb offering is now reduced to 11 lbs. Since my choice of dishwasher detergent (Wal-Mart's GreatValue) is now phosphate free, I bought two 11 lb containers last month.
sudsmaster
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I wonder what will happen to Consumer Review's evaluation of the Great Value DW detergent now that it's phosphate free...?
In my case, I bought a few 50 lb sacks of STPP about 10 years ago. From a local chemical warehouse. I calculated that it should last the rest of my life, providing I keep it cool and dry. Well, I have the dry part handled. Not so sure about the cool (it can get into the 90's a few weeks every summer here).
In my case, I bought a few 50 lb sacks of STPP about 10 years ago. From a local chemical warehouse. I calculated that it should last the rest of my life, providing I keep it cool and dry. Well, I have the dry part handled. Not so sure about the cool (it can get into the 90's a few weeks every summer here).
amyswasher
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Thanks for the information. I just ordered some. Thanks for correct name and the link to it. My water is so hard that I can put dish soap in the dishwasher and no suds.
amyswasher
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I saw a POD someone putting Calgon in the fs dispenser along with downy for the last rinse. Is the old Calgon the same as STPP? The new Calgon is a joke for the hard water that I have. (I think it was a Norge washer) Any advise?
STPP
In hard water areas cannot be beat. I have used it in the prewash the main wash the bleach bath and final rinse to help soften work even more. A little goes a very long way. 1/4 oz is plenty for most machines. I only use 1 oz on the l50 lb machines here when I do have to use it. In the prewash it will help break up stains esp. blood and in the wash softens water so that only a small amount of detegent is needed . In the bleach bath it will help the bleach work better and quicker.I also like it in the 1s rinse on very heavy soil work. I am not sure what the NEW Calgon is have not used any of it in years far to costly for us. Amway smashing white is the same as STPP at a lot higher cost.
In hard water areas cannot be beat. I have used it in the prewash the main wash the bleach bath and final rinse to help soften work even more. A little goes a very long way. 1/4 oz is plenty for most machines. I only use 1 oz on the l50 lb machines here when I do have to use it. In the prewash it will help break up stains esp. blood and in the wash softens water so that only a small amount of detegent is needed . In the bleach bath it will help the bleach work better and quicker.I also like it in the 1s rinse on very heavy soil work. I am not sure what the NEW Calgon is have not used any of it in years far to costly for us. Amway smashing white is the same as STPP at a lot higher cost.
It can also be purchased
at most any commerical laundry supply . There are in almost all larger citys. most will ship also this is who I use and have for years they have offices in a number of citys.
http://www.fabricleansupply.com/
at most any commerical laundry supply . There are in almost all larger citys. most will ship also this is who I use and have for years they have offices in a number of citys.
http://www.fabricleansupply.com/
amyswasher
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Thanks sudsman, I would have used way too much and at the wronge times. I have relative all over the metroplex. I hope to get back soon.
@sudsman: what does "1/4 ounce" translate to in volume (ie: tablespoons/cups)? We were using some as an additive to our homemade powdered soap, and would throw an extra tablespoon or two of it into the final rinse if things seemed to be holding the soap residue...weren't sure if that was too much or too little! Recently ran out, and we can certainly tell the difference without it. thx!
STPP
Is a VERY light product and 1/2 or 1 oz by weight (what i use) will be much more than you need. I would start with 1/2 teaspoon to 1 teaspoon and work from there. How hard the water is will play a part too. here in FtWorth we have AWFUL water.in the summer not uncommon to range in 22 to 25 grain range. We are also "blessed " with iron and all types of other things that hamper good washing. If you use it at more than one place in the wash cycle then the other places you add it will only need 1/2 as much as the first time you added.IE: I use 1 oz by weight in the Break bath. then each time I add 1/2 oz to the wash, bleach and last rinse cycles. if the load is a heavy surgery load I will use 1 oz on the break and 1 oz on the wash it pulls the soil right out. keep in mind too that a 150 lb machine does not wash in that much more water than a standard top loader. But the amount needed for saturation is greater.
Is a VERY light product and 1/2 or 1 oz by weight (what i use) will be much more than you need. I would start with 1/2 teaspoon to 1 teaspoon and work from there. How hard the water is will play a part too. here in FtWorth we have AWFUL water.in the summer not uncommon to range in 22 to 25 grain range. We are also "blessed " with iron and all types of other things that hamper good washing. If you use it at more than one place in the wash cycle then the other places you add it will only need 1/2 as much as the first time you added.IE: I use 1 oz by weight in the Break bath. then each time I add 1/2 oz to the wash, bleach and last rinse cycles. if the load is a heavy surgery load I will use 1 oz on the break and 1 oz on the wash it pulls the soil right out. keep in mind too that a 150 lb machine does not wash in that much more water than a standard top loader. But the amount needed for saturation is greater.
sudsmaster
Well-known member
The water here is relatively soft (2 to 5 grains), but I find that STPP is necessary to get very soiled laundry cleaned. It's particularly good with the clay soil that gets on my gardening clothes, as well as machine grease on my work clothes. But because the water is relatively soft, I only use it in conjunction with the launddry detergent - not with the rinse. I also usually don't use it when I'm using a mild liquid for certain reasons - such as bath towels where they aren't that dirty but final fabric softness is important (I've found the STPP in the rinse will cause some harshness in the fabric).
launderess
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Calgon
Vintage Calgon powder in the silver box, and some later versions sold until several years ago was a mix of STPP and sodiumhexophosphate (sp?). This gave great water softening and detergent boosting properties.
When one uses pure soap for washing laundry, and or has very hard water, STPP or some other type of water softener was recommended for the first rinse to help remove soap (and detergent) residue. My vintage boxes of Calgon (silver), give directions for both adding to wash and rinse cycles.
Vintage Calgon powder in the silver box, and some later versions sold until several years ago was a mix of STPP and sodiumhexophosphate (sp?). This gave great water softening and detergent boosting properties.
When one uses pure soap for washing laundry, and or has very hard water, STPP or some other type of water softener was recommended for the first rinse to help remove soap (and detergent) residue. My vintage boxes of Calgon (silver), give directions for both adding to wash and rinse cycles.
amyswasher
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@sudsman will the STPP help with the pH. I get a yearly report on the treated water in the town I live in. It states that the treated water pH is 7.9 and the hardness is 365 ppm. Nobody drinks the water here. I know that soda ash raises the pH. How do you figure out the (grains) of hardness in water?
sudsmaster
Well-known member
A pH of 7.9 is withing normal range, I think. It is only slightly basic/alkaline. You don't want water that is acidic, as it will rapidly eat plumbing and water heaters. So 7.9 better than, say, 6.1 (7.0 is neutral).
In any case, STPP would tend to raise the pH above 7.9 anyway. Most detergents need some alkalinity to function well. Alkalinity helps to clean greasy soils - it literally turns the grease into a form of soap.
A soda taste to the water isn't so much the alkalinity - that would taste bitter - but rather high sodium content.
I'll let someone else figure the ppm to grains. It's been a while since i looked it up.
In any case, STPP would tend to raise the pH above 7.9 anyway. Most detergents need some alkalinity to function well. Alkalinity helps to clean greasy soils - it literally turns the grease into a form of soap.
A soda taste to the water isn't so much the alkalinity - that would taste bitter - but rather high sodium content.
I'll let someone else figure the ppm to grains. It's been a while since i looked it up.
1:3
I recall someone here suggested a 1:3 ratio. 1 part STPP to 3 parts detergent. That's how I've been using it for laundry, which in the Calypso is usually a 1 oz scoop (volume, not weight) to 3 or 4 scoops of detergent. Accordingly less for small loads (which I don't often have very small loads). Also premixed 1:3 now with the dishwasher powder. Is that substantial overkill? My water was 11 grains when tested by a softener salesman several years ago (I don't have a softener).
I recall someone here suggested a 1:3 ratio. 1 part STPP to 3 parts detergent. That's how I've been using it for laundry, which in the Calypso is usually a 1 oz scoop (volume, not weight) to 3 or 4 scoops of detergent. Accordingly less for small loads (which I don't often have very small loads). Also premixed 1:3 now with the dishwasher powder. Is that substantial overkill? My water was 11 grains when tested by a softener salesman several years ago (I don't have a softener).
sudsmaster
Well-known member
A typical detergent recipe would be 1/3 STPP by weight. Try taking a cup of your favorite detergent powder and comparing its weight of STPP. They should be close enough to substitute volume for weight, although I don't recall having done this measurement myself. I just use a shipping scale to measure out Sears Ultra Plus and STPP in a 2 parts detergent to 1 part STPP by weight when I mix up a big lot.
There are test kits for water hardenss
The one I have mixes two chemicals in about 1 oz of water then a dropper of one of the chemicals is dropped one dro at a time into the mixture when the mixture turns blue that tells the hardness if it takes 10 drops the hardness is 10 grains.. ect/ these test kits are also on line. and culligan sells them/ not too costly.. 7 0 is where the water should be. but almost no where is the water perfect anymore..
Sudsmaster if the towels are harsh after using STPP you used too much. in only takes a very little in very soft water I would not use in the last rinse at all.
The one I have mixes two chemicals in about 1 oz of water then a dropper of one of the chemicals is dropped one dro at a time into the mixture when the mixture turns blue that tells the hardness if it takes 10 drops the hardness is 10 grains.. ect/ these test kits are also on line. and culligan sells them/ not too costly.. 7 0 is where the water should be. but almost no where is the water perfect anymore..
Sudsmaster if the towels are harsh after using STPP you used too much. in only takes a very little in very soft water I would not use in the last rinse at all.
This tell all about the test kits
and they sell them too. Only $13.00
http://www.watersticks.com/testkit.htm
and they sell them too. Only $13.00
http://www.watersticks.com/testkit.htm
amyswasher
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Dan, that is after the water runs through the R.O. plant. But water is precious here(I live in the desert near Mexico)it does eat plumbing, fixtures, etc. At least the city sends the state required notice of whats in the water. I couldn't imagine the water before the R.O. plant was built(I think it was twenty years ago).
Many thanks for all the good info! We were definitely using too much, and will scale back how much extra we put into the final rinse.
Also thinking about reformulating the powdered soap mix. We've experimented with different proportions of Fels/Washing Soda/Borax/STPP, and have probably been using too much there as well. Thinking of trying 1 bar Fels to 1 cup each of the soda/borax and 1/2 cup of the STPP. We found a cheap food processor in a thrift store (six bucks!) and its only job is "laundry soap making"...it stays with the laundry supplies...much better than using my Cuisinart!
And we've had good luck ordering from this eBay seller, for those who do eBay...she's prompt and ships Priority Mail...saves us a few bucks in the end:
http://cgi.ebay.com/Sodium-Tripolyp...emQQptZLH_DefaultDomain_0?hash=item5186b3a79e
Also thinking about reformulating the powdered soap mix. We've experimented with different proportions of Fels/Washing Soda/Borax/STPP, and have probably been using too much there as well. Thinking of trying 1 bar Fels to 1 cup each of the soda/borax and 1/2 cup of the STPP. We found a cheap food processor in a thrift store (six bucks!) and its only job is "laundry soap making"...it stays with the laundry supplies...much better than using my Cuisinart!
And we've had good luck ordering from this eBay seller, for those who do eBay...she's prompt and ships Priority Mail...saves us a few bucks in the end:
http://cgi.ebay.com/Sodium-Tripolyp...emQQptZLH_DefaultDomain_0?hash=item5186b3a79e
amyswasher
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works wonders!!!
This stuff works great! I received this stuff today. I put in the compartment in the front loader and it's done. Now all I half-to do is try it in the dishwasher.
This stuff works great! I received this stuff today. I put in the compartment in the front loader and it's done. Now all I half-to do is try it in the dishwasher.
For water hardness testing, you can get Mardel 5-in-1 Test Strips at any Petco or Petsmart. They're made for freshwater aquariums, but they work great for tap water too.
http://www.amazon.com/Mardel-Labora...7?ie=UTF8&s=home-garden&qid=1263011552&sr=8-7
http://www.amazon.com/Mardel-Labora...7?ie=UTF8&s=home-garden&qid=1263011552&sr=8-7
The batch of phosphate-free GreatValue that I mixed with STPP is working very well in my dishwasher.
launderess
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When Using Soap For Laundry
It is best to follow old school laundry advice to deal with hard water.
Add whatever one is going to use to soften water first, let the machine run a bit, then add soap, or soap based detergent mixture.
In the case of STPP, better to let the phosphates go to work binding hard water minerals and such before adding soap so latter can be fully used as "detergent", rather than also working to soften water.
It is best to follow old school laundry advice to deal with hard water.
Add whatever one is going to use to soften water first, let the machine run a bit, then add soap, or soap based detergent mixture.
In the case of STPP, better to let the phosphates go to work binding hard water minerals and such before adding soap so latter can be fully used as "detergent", rather than also working to soften water.
amyswasher
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It's geat in the washer, but not so great in dishwasher
maytagbear
Well-known member
Please clarify--
"not so great in the dishwasher."
Perhaps, with some more information, someone could help you adjust the amount for optimum results.
Thank you,
Lawrence/Maytagbear
"not so great in the dishwasher."
Perhaps, with some more information, someone could help you adjust the amount for optimum results.
Thank you,
Lawrence/Maytagbear
amyswasher
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The glass are coming out still a little "milky looking". The dishes are coming out a lot cleaner. The only thing that helps with that is stuff called "The Works". I use a little bit at the start of the first cycle. I was hoping to replace it with stpp. I put the finish tab in and fill the rest of the dispenser with stpp.
launderess
Well-known member
Cloudy Glassware In The Dishwasher
Has two main causes,one can be reversed, the other cannot.
First cause is mineral deposits due to hard water. This sort of film is easier to prevent and remove. The second is called "etching", and once begins is permanent.
To test for the former, take a "cloudy" glass and put it to soak in undiluted white vinegar for five minutes. After the alloted time, remove the glass and wipe dry.If the cloudy residue is gone, then your problem is due to mineral hardness in the water, and you will have to make the proper adjustments. In this case it is important to adjust the amount of dishwasher detergent used in ratio to water hardness.
If the film is not removed by the above test, then you have what is called etching, and this is harder to prevent. Normally etching is caused by too much detergent, in too soft water and dishes washed at too low temperature.
Basically what is happening is the glass is slowly being worn away/reacting to the alkaline substances in the wash and rinse waters. Adding more STPP is not always the solution as most automatic dishwasher detergents contain STPP to begin with. Adding more packaged water softener,while not adjusting the detergent dose, leaves excess STPP/alkaline levels with nothing to work on, so it goes to work on your glassware.
Check your dishwasher's owner's manual for information on how to deal with etching, if indeed this is the case. Or, read up on the Internet for solutions.
Long story short: if the cloudy glassware is caused by mineral deposits, then deal with water hardness,or use a product such as "Glass Magic" along with your dishwasher detergent. However if the cause is due to etching, it may harder to prevent.
L.
Has two main causes,one can be reversed, the other cannot.
First cause is mineral deposits due to hard water. This sort of film is easier to prevent and remove. The second is called "etching", and once begins is permanent.
To test for the former, take a "cloudy" glass and put it to soak in undiluted white vinegar for five minutes. After the alloted time, remove the glass and wipe dry.If the cloudy residue is gone, then your problem is due to mineral hardness in the water, and you will have to make the proper adjustments. In this case it is important to adjust the amount of dishwasher detergent used in ratio to water hardness.
If the film is not removed by the above test, then you have what is called etching, and this is harder to prevent. Normally etching is caused by too much detergent, in too soft water and dishes washed at too low temperature.
Basically what is happening is the glass is slowly being worn away/reacting to the alkaline substances in the wash and rinse waters. Adding more STPP is not always the solution as most automatic dishwasher detergents contain STPP to begin with. Adding more packaged water softener,while not adjusting the detergent dose, leaves excess STPP/alkaline levels with nothing to work on, so it goes to work on your glassware.
Check your dishwasher's owner's manual for information on how to deal with etching, if indeed this is the case. Or, read up on the Internet for solutions.
Long story short: if the cloudy glassware is caused by mineral deposits, then deal with water hardness,or use a product such as "Glass Magic" along with your dishwasher detergent. However if the cause is due to etching, it may harder to prevent.
L.
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