turquoisedude
Well-known member
That's it... Youse guys are shaming me into getting my ol' Jet-Tower back to life to see how 'the king of pre-rinsing' here does with one... LOL
Tweeking the Jet Tower by Youngstown
- Thread starter jetcone
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philr
Well-known member
John,
I've seen Jon load some of his dishwashers with dishes just as dirty as you do!
I've seen him using the rinse&hold cycle on his newer dishwashers too when heavily soiled items are to stay in the dishwasher until it's loaded full.
But...
I am one of those who pre-rinses (some would say pre-wash!) his dishes regularly. I learned t do that with a Whirlpool dishwasher when I was a kid! To be fair, this dishwasher was always run on short cyce and with a locally-made detergent (bought in very large packages) that was not too good!
With all the stuff I eat like microwave-melted cheese and cooked-on things that will resist the best dishwashers I have used, I don't have much choice!
If I use my dishwasher just after a meal, I don't rinse anything but I have to hand-wash those with melted Parmesan cheese (I eat too much of that stuff!) after it's been in my current Spray Tube dishwasher!
Occasionnally, I do have to manually remove coffee and tea stains from mugs, that also happened with other Whirlpool-based dishwashers. Am-I doing something wrong?
BTW, after more than a year of daily use of the 1963 Spray-Tube dishwasher, not a single failure and the porcelain is still as shiny as when Robert sent it to me even if I do pre-rinse!
I've seen Jon load some of his dishwashers with dishes just as dirty as you do!
I've seen him using the rinse&hold cycle on his newer dishwashers too when heavily soiled items are to stay in the dishwasher until it's loaded full.
But...
I am one of those who pre-rinses (some would say pre-wash!) his dishes regularly. I learned t do that with a Whirlpool dishwasher when I was a kid! To be fair, this dishwasher was always run on short cyce and with a locally-made detergent (bought in very large packages) that was not too good!
With all the stuff I eat like microwave-melted cheese and cooked-on things that will resist the best dishwashers I have used, I don't have much choice!
If I use my dishwasher just after a meal, I don't rinse anything but I have to hand-wash those with melted Parmesan cheese (I eat too much of that stuff!) after it's been in my current Spray Tube dishwasher!
Occasionnally, I do have to manually remove coffee and tea stains from mugs, that also happened with other Whirlpool-based dishwashers. Am-I doing something wrong?
BTW, after more than a year of daily use of the 1963 Spray-Tube dishwasher, not a single failure and the porcelain is still as shiny as when Robert sent it to me even if I do pre-rinse!
firedome
Well-known member
We do a quick pre-rinse and always have...
mostly because it sits for 3 days on average before running a full machine.
After 15 years our KDC-17 porcelain looked liked new and the machine functioned perfectly, and that was on hard well water with no softener ever online and using Electro-Sol of the 70s/80s.
Sorry, but I'd like to question the idea that pre-rinsing damages a machine. It's a matter of Chemistry and BioChemistry, which I have an academic background in and have taught. There is nothing that food oils and greases (fats,lipids etc) would do to effect any resistance of damage to porcelain, which is silicon-glass, nickle-alloy stainless steel, or properly designed and formulated synthetic, typically styrene-butadiene, rubber seals. It's possible that very early true rubber seals, if indeed used, could have been minimally helped by lipid coating, an effect which would be highly ephemeral. Porcelain is not affected to any degree by any acid other than Hydrofluoric acid, not likely found in any domestic situation! AFAIK there is no experimental evidence of a protective chemical reaction or effect between lipids &c and any modern materials, nor evidence that detergents and/or surfactants at the strength used under any kind of typical water and heat conditions would effect any damage. Machine designers would certainly have considered these factors in design and selection of materials, and if not, were incompetent. I'd like to see any valid data supporting the assertion. Evidence of deterioration which may have been observed in the field would need to be subjected to properly designed experimental regimes in order to provide data that would confirm an actual cause and effect. No doubt manufactures have done this type of testing ad infinitum. IMO it's dubious that presence of lipids &c would be found to have an effect one way or the other on a properly operated and maintained machine.
Just my $.02.
mostly because it sits for 3 days on average before running a full machine.
After 15 years our KDC-17 porcelain looked liked new and the machine functioned perfectly, and that was on hard well water with no softener ever online and using Electro-Sol of the 70s/80s.
Sorry, but I'd like to question the idea that pre-rinsing damages a machine. It's a matter of Chemistry and BioChemistry, which I have an academic background in and have taught. There is nothing that food oils and greases (fats,lipids etc) would do to effect any resistance of damage to porcelain, which is silicon-glass, nickle-alloy stainless steel, or properly designed and formulated synthetic, typically styrene-butadiene, rubber seals. It's possible that very early true rubber seals, if indeed used, could have been minimally helped by lipid coating, an effect which would be highly ephemeral. Porcelain is not affected to any degree by any acid other than Hydrofluoric acid, not likely found in any domestic situation! AFAIK there is no experimental evidence of a protective chemical reaction or effect between lipids &c and any modern materials, nor evidence that detergents and/or surfactants at the strength used under any kind of typical water and heat conditions would effect any damage. Machine designers would certainly have considered these factors in design and selection of materials, and if not, were incompetent. I'd like to see any valid data supporting the assertion. Evidence of deterioration which may have been observed in the field would need to be subjected to properly designed experimental regimes in order to provide data that would confirm an actual cause and effect. No doubt manufactures have done this type of testing ad infinitum. IMO it's dubious that presence of lipids &c would be found to have an effect one way or the other on a properly operated and maintained machine.
Just my $.02.
False claims
Companies have made false claims since the beginning of time. I have seen a GE ad state that the heat of the condenser coil would lift the dirt off my monitor top. That's total BS.
They only got clean by soda blasting and new paint!
Companies have made false claims since the beginning of time. I have seen a GE ad state that the heat of the condenser coil would lift the dirt off my monitor top. That's total BS.
They only got clean by soda blasting and new paint!
Pre-rinsing results in "too much detergent" being present for the wash cycle. And manufacturers warn that this can result in etching. If it can happen to my plates, glasses and other 'ware,' then it can surely happen to the DW tank.
Our first machine, at our old home, a Dishlex was often used on the short cycle. As a result, we tended to pre-rinse those plates.
The result? They all have a strange finish now, similar to hard-water staining (despite being washed in SOFTENED water for over 4 years now), with a rainbow shine under direct Fluorescent light. I attribute to this damage, which is uniform across all the 8 or so plates, to pre-rinsing, too much detergent and too little rinsing.
We don't pre-rinse anymore, and the plates we bought 3 years ago now still look like new (bar markings from knifes), this is despite softened water, phosphate detergents and frequent washing in the dishwasher. I would suggest this is good evidence.
Interestingly enough, plates that are etched are harder to clean, whether in the DW or by hand. The "squeaky" finish seems to let things stick more...
Our first machine, at our old home, a Dishlex was often used on the short cycle. As a result, we tended to pre-rinse those plates.
The result? They all have a strange finish now, similar to hard-water staining (despite being washed in SOFTENED water for over 4 years now), with a rainbow shine under direct Fluorescent light. I attribute to this damage, which is uniform across all the 8 or so plates, to pre-rinsing, too much detergent and too little rinsing.
We don't pre-rinse anymore, and the plates we bought 3 years ago now still look like new (bar markings from knifes), this is despite softened water, phosphate detergents and frequent washing in the dishwasher. I would suggest this is good evidence.
Interestingly enough, plates that are etched are harder to clean, whether in the DW or by hand. The "squeaky" finish seems to let things stick more...
Wonderful dishwasher, but...
PreRinsed Dishes
Hi Roger, You said it yourself, hard water and no softener, with these conditions you will not have the etching damage that is common, and a KDC or I 17 DW does not even have a water heater [ which is why they can't clean cooked on food soil off dishes worth a damn or even badly dried on soil for that matter].
I am quite certain that my experience and that of many others that have worked with dishwashers for many years is proof of this theory of damage to DWs. We have thousands of customers and can prove that customers that pre-rinse, go heavy on detergent usage, use long hi-temp cycles etc get about 1/2 the life out of their DWs compared the other users here in the same area with the same water conditions. These results are well known to the DW manufactures and are listed in service literature.
Etching of porclean parts, fast wear on carbon-ceramic seals pump seals, ruined neoprene rubber parts , short life of vinyl coated racks that lead to rusting steel underneath, worn out bronze bushings in KA DW wash-arms etc, everyone that has worked on DWs has seen all of this and more, But you are correct on one point pre-rinsing does not do much harm to good SS.
Hi Roger, You said it yourself, hard water and no softener, with these conditions you will not have the etching damage that is common, and a KDC or I 17 DW does not even have a water heater [ which is why they can't clean cooked on food soil off dishes worth a damn or even badly dried on soil for that matter].
I am quite certain that my experience and that of many others that have worked with dishwashers for many years is proof of this theory of damage to DWs. We have thousands of customers and can prove that customers that pre-rinse, go heavy on detergent usage, use long hi-temp cycles etc get about 1/2 the life out of their DWs compared the other users here in the same area with the same water conditions. These results are well known to the DW manufactures and are listed in service literature.
Etching of porclean parts, fast wear on carbon-ceramic seals pump seals, ruined neoprene rubber parts , short life of vinyl coated racks that lead to rusting steel underneath, worn out bronze bushings in KA DW wash-arms etc, everyone that has worked on DWs has seen all of this and more, But you are correct on one point pre-rinsing does not do much harm to good SS.
Pre-Rinsing..
<span style="font-family: verdana,geneva;">Every time I see this ad I think of the debates we have on pre-rinsing. Looks like they have been going on for ages. I love this ad because I have been accused, many times, of being the one on the left!! LOL.</span>
<span style="font-family: verdana,geneva;">Every time I see this ad I think of the debates we have on pre-rinsing. Looks like they have been going on for ages. I love this ad because I have been accused, many times, of being the one on the left!! LOL.</span>
maytagbear
Well-known member
I scrape........
but never, ever rinse.
When was the front loading Youngstown introduced?
Lawrence/Maytagbear
but never, ever rinse.
When was the front loading Youngstown introduced?
Lawrence/Maytagbear
I don't rinse and barely scrape. If you cannot deal with it, get out of my kitchen. I sternly tell anyone new to my house, don't put them in the sink and rinse them off, just lay them on the counter. I'm on the mission in life to prove dishwashers WASH the dishes for you and front loaders with supplemental heaters clean better than any washer for heavy stains.
