Update: Life with the Thermador THD-4500

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roto204

roto204

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It's true--even on just the regular Full Steam cycle without Sani-steam, you can get extraordinary results if you turn that water heater up, and use that phosphated detergent.

Incoming water temp is a solid 140°F. The phosphated detergent not only takes care of particulates--and that's not optional with this machine, unless you enjoy scraping particles off drinking glasses with your fingernails--but also keeps glassware and flatware sparkling.

I am impressed!

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Proud of ya Nate.  Knock Ralph upside the head---these machines DID do a great job.  Just had to let steam or heavy soil cycles do what they were intended to do. 
 
Let's not rush to judgement...

Chocolate on a baking dish isn't much of a challenge for any dishwasher. :-)

I'm familiar with the earlier model's cycle sequence, what is the cycle in the Steam Machine?

I really like the soak cycle in the KitchenAid, I shocked Terry once with a lasagne pan that came out spotless. He was beside himself with worry for the whole cycle waiting to see the results he was sure weren't going to pass muster. The KA came through and the pan was spotless.
 
Impressive Performace Nate

But what did the rest of the load look like before, A great DW should be able to clean at least 10 or 15 items that dirty and all the other dishes and glassware can be covered in dried on food as well. I have yet to see a Non-Filter DW ever do this. Also this DW was designed to be run on 120F incoming water as required by DOE and AHAM so for a really fair test this DW should be compared to other machines of this era with the lower incoming water temp.

 

In any event Great test Nate, I love all your Dishwasher tests, when we get the 22 DWs hooked up in the Wall Of DWs you can come and test DWs for a week or more. I am installing a Water Meter, Electric Meter, and Temperature Gauge on the incoming water and electric supply so we can also keep track of water usage etc.
 
From someome that uses the diswasher every other month...

I think if you used a cooking spray and positioned the baking dish correctly, several dishwashers could produce the same results. As to what that is, chicken or chocolate, didn't Kevin & Ralph do a "Chicken Chocolate Surprise" on the entree/desert all-in-one episode on Cavalcade?
 
somehow I was thinking it may have been RoadRunner stew Ralph...and Nate is Wile E Coyote...Super Genious!....

Very good Nate...we love tests....no matter how they come out....

seems you got good results this time.....its a formula that works, and that's all that matters....

granted as so many get confused by, many dishwashers and detergents can remove baked on, not burnt on foods with ease....

keep them coming...

sometimes wonder if we can rig up machines with more power, higher speed motor, or more powerful pumps...something that would blast that silly flower pattern off the dishes...

sometimes wish for a home shower to be set up like a dishwasher, with top and bottom spinning sprayers shooting water from all directions.....probably be one heck of a massage....
 
Greg!

Chocolate?  Seriously?  *SLAP*

 

That was baked-on juice/gak from a pork tenderloin.  :-)  No cooking spray; this is no country for crappy dishwashers.

 

The rest of the load was fairly average--but not obscene.  I don't scrape or prerinse anymore.  The phosphates have gotten rid of the particles, even on shorter cycles, so I'm happy.  Even though, yes, three rinses and all.

 

120 F?  Interesting.  So the recommendations were for 140 but they were designed to operate in that realm?  I'll have to try dropping the water heater back down to "balmy" and see what it does.

 

We've mulled over doing a massive test for years, but it's one of those things where the potential fun starts to get demolished by the assured work.  :-)  That is, unless we can get together a pool of potential backers for impartial testing.  ;-)
 
Wow!

Oh, man!  It had optional glass panels?  How *gorgeous* would that be??

 

Can't imagine what a PITA to install, though.  I dropped the door panel on my foot when I adjusted the door switch.  The glass kit probably would have been swept into a dustpan with my dexterity.

 

Speaking of door latches...

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Minor adjustments

Remember when I whined in an "Ill Repute" about a D&M that asked you to periodically clean out the wash arms?

 

This needs periodic adjustments to the door latch.  Mine not only needed adjusting, but the tiny spring on the switch had to be bent back a hair; otherwise, the machine would vibrate the latch slightly loose, and stop.

 

The other periodic adjustment listed is the door springs.

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Temps

Looks like they do shoot for the stars on the temp.  I have to admit, it delivers in that range!

 

Note the admonishment about burnt-on food, Yogi, right above the water temp section.  :-)

 

The other benefit of operating at 140 is that you don't wait 25 minutes for the steam delay to complete.  It proceeds MUCH more quickly now.  The cycle time is down to about 64 minutes on Full.

 

I sense that the Thermador/WK design operates the way it does--"steam" delay and all--because it cannot multitask.  Otherwise, designing the timer to operate in a holding pattern while washing until the thermostat was satisfied--which many other dishwashers seemed to do--would have been a much more sensible solution.  As it is, you get "fill, wash for a bit, stop, heat...heat...heat, finish" which, as I mentioned, yields results similar to the Energy Saver IV KitchenAids.  Dishes don't like to get sprayed with detergent-laden water, then drip-dry.

 

I suspect if I drop the temp to 120, the steam delay will extend, and performance will deteriorate due to filming on the dishes.

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