Update on the KDS-16

[bajaespuma]

I've completed my favorite part of the restoration (and the part I'm best at), the cleanup. After disassembling a lot of the unit including the front panels (EEK!), the racks, the dispensers (Oy!) and some of the solenoids, the unit is up and running and going through one of the last of it's decalcification  Sani Cycles as I write. I bought some adapters from Homo Depot and hooked the machine up to the garden hose which I hooked up to the washing machine hot inlet:

 

[bajaespuma]

The panel cleaned up really nicely, and I have to hand in to Hobart, it's built like a tank and all of the parts are so heavy duty and machined so well that after I disassembled everything, cleaned the piss out of it, it all went back like a glove. The racks were really crusted with green scale, as was the tank, but I've been experimenting with all different brands of rust/scale remover to find the strongest one. Scale adhered to plastic such as the detergent dispenser, so far, it the most recalcitrant (pun intended).

 

[combo52]

KDS-16 Clean-Up

WOW Looks good Ken, the inside of the machine really cleaned up nicely. It looks like it has the newer style inlet valve which is a good thing as this part would otherwise be one of the parts that seldom work correctly at this age.

 

[bajaespuma]

And speaking of the detergent dispenser

One interesting problem with this machine's restoration continues to be the detergent dispenser. All the parts are there, and nothing seems to be broken, but it won't stay closed. If I remove the front panel and move the spring tab, it will lock and stay closed. The magnet works perfectly and the dispenser snaps open at the right time for the wash cycle, but I can't figure out what needs to be done to make it stay closed.

 

In this picture, I've partially disassembled the dispenser, so the metal retainer tab on the right is usually screwed onto the base and seems to hold down the small rectangular tab on the plastic lever so when the magnet levers the flared part up, it can swing open powered by the spring underneath. Opposite the small tab is the flared tab that needs to sink into that gap between the two detergent cups to stay locked. That is precisely what it doesn't do; it turns counter-clockwise (from this view) towards a ramp that leads it up to the gap. It goes practically all the way to that gap, but leaves about 1/32 of an inch shy of it and thus doesn't lock. There's no metal to fatigue; is there such a thing as plastic fatigue? I wondered if the metal tab was installed the wrong way, but it doesn't seem to work any way than how I found it:

 

[bajaespuma]

It's a neat dispenser. At first I had a "thing" against it because it wasn't blue like the later detergent dispensers, but I like the handy button I discovered in the center, for opening the detergent door to "Check" to see if the dispenser is filled properly:

 

[bajaespuma]

Quality all the Way

It's crusty with scale and John has indicated that he has a lot of parts for this machine but I'm kind of hooked on this challenge now so if any of you have any knowledge on how to fix it, I'd be obliged.

 

By the way, do any of you more experienced dishwasher restorers know how to test a rinse agent dispenser? I tested the solenoid with an electrical continuity tester and it snapped, but it's very hard to tell, once you've filled the dispenser, whether it's added the correct dose to the final rinse. I'm curious, is it supposed to open for just a second or for a whole timer dial interval? Does anyone know how much fluid is supposed to be added? I've never seen this question put here.

 

[bajaespuma]

A major design flaw.

By the way, John, going back to our discussion on the silliness of the KitchenAid "Flo-thru Drying" one of the worst parts of this machine was the inside of the top front panel. It was covered with thick scabs of rust from all of that steam that creeped in from years of venting, idiotically, from below the door, instead of from vents at the top of the unit where they should be.

 

The good news is that, during my first trial run, the heater started to smoke and smell, but with just a tap of the screwdriver against the squirrel-cage, the fan wound right up and has continued to work like a charm. I may disconnect the nichrome (sp?)coils because I never use the heated dry feature on any dishwasher, and the dishes are so hot in this machine after the 180 degree Sani-Rinse it's just not necessary.

 

[toploader55]

Great Machine Ken.

I bet you can't wait to have a Party to use the Party Cycles.

I always thought that was soooo cool.

 

[gansky1]

Wonderful cleaning job, Ken! I love the 16 series, such a solid and beautiful machine. I was at an estate sale here once that had a 16 Superba in stainless steel (front) and more people were asking about that dishwasher (not for sale) than I could believe. The guy running the sale said he wished it was for sale, could have made a fortune on the bidding! They just scream "Quality All The Way" as the tag says.

Don't know much about that detergent dispenser, this was changed in the 17 series and I've not had to work on it in the 15 and 16 series I've had but one of the guys here will know just what to do... Good luck, I'm sure you'll get it working just fine.

 

[aldspinboy]

Ken the diswasher looks new... very nice !
Now one day I will hopefully get mine up and running .
Are you going to put this in your kitchen ?

Darren k[this post was last edited: 6/11/2012-12:25]

 

[varicyclevoice]

Answer to your detergent cup issue

Please refer to the picture I've included. I believe the metal piece that is in question needs to be placed in the position that matches my picture.

This may be all that you need to do to correct that problem.

 

[pdub]

Nice picture Todd! Nothing like a good photo of a working item to explain things.

Looks to be in great shape as well.

Patrick

 

[bajaespuma]

Now the question is if I can get all those parts back togeth

Todd,

 

Thank you for that wonderful shot, but I'm that's the position that tab was in when I took the unit apart. Everything seems to be in order; the flared part of that plastic lock lever is just 1 mm shy of clearing the plastic "ramp" that leads it to the gap where it would lock. It's looking more and more like some part here has fatigued just enough to foul up the works. I may have to just find an NOS dispenser.

 

Also, on your KDS-16 is the Sani-Rinse period incredibly short, like only 1 minute, after the water has reached temperature? And, also on the Sani-Cycle, is there a long pause after the first Pre-Wash? I'd expect that on the Soak Cycle, but not on the Sani. If anybody has a Cycle Chart for this machine, it would be very helpful.

 

[bajaespuma]

OK, so sue me the response was late!

Darren,

 

I don't know what I'm going to do with this machine, but it's not going in my kitchen until it's fully tested. There seem to be some leaks around the drain solenoid and the housing for the "Flo-thru" blower. I'm testing it outside and it has not been leveled by a long shot, so the leaks may be caused by a lot of swooshing of water around the tank. Does anyone remember how to take the stainless steel cap off of that air inlet? I did it once years ago, but I've forgotten. I seem to remember brute force having something to do with it...

 

Truthfully, my Maytag DWU-9200 does such a great job of washing and is so accommodating that I might use the KDS-16 as a second dishwasher, but not a daily driver. If I can achieve one of my dreams and build a retro kitchen downstairs one day a la Rich and Chuck, my dream dishwashing team would be this KitchenAid (blue for boys) and a 1961 GE SU-72 Pull Out (pink for girls). I'm first going to have to come into a large sum of money so I can do the renovation and then pay somebody to get rid of my back-door neighbors. In our town you can only build a fence 8 feet tall; I need one of those fences like they have on I-95.

 

[stevet]

I have got them!

Ken,
I just pulled the service manual out for the 16 series with and without the soak cycle. Which machine do you have? The book is really big so it will take a while to scan but I can scan the cycle charts if that's all you need.

As far as the fast sani cycle, I had the same thing happen to me when I put together a KDSS16 years ago that someone had tossed to the curb, minus the motor windings and water valve. It turned out to be a closed sani thermostat which is tstat "86" on the machine mounted on the front of the sump. That should be open and holds the timer circuit open until the water heats up to 180 degrees. I am sure that you know how to check it so I won't go into that. Not an easy part to find but I may have one in a box somewhere or maybe John in D.C. has one he can put his finger on.

Not quite sure about the other quick action you mentioned at the start of the cycle, but like you said maybe the timer charts will help.

Let me know what you need
Steve

 

[combo52]

KA KD-16 Detergent Dispenser

WOW Ken you have now more completely dissembled one of these detergent dispensers than I have LOL. The cover not being able to be latched was a common failure on these as they got old and had been used a lot. When the lid snaps open it slightly bends and wears a few parts, sometimes I have been able to adjust or grind the parts enough to make these work again. The same dispenser was used on the 15-16 series DWs, they have been NAL for a long time but I can probably still find a good used one if you don't get this one to work. Good Luck.

 

[stevet]

MAYTAG DISPENSER MAYBE?

John,
Didn't Maytag use a similar round dispenser with the push button in their reverse rack machines? Maybe this will sub for the Kitchenaid one? I am sure that you would know for sure.

 

[bajaespuma]

Thank you for all your posts!

Darren, I'd LOVE to have those Asko manuals if you can email them to me; if not let me know and I'll send you a mailer.

 

John, which parts did you grind/adjust?

 

Steve, that's a good suggestion; I have two old Maytags downstairs that are OOC; now if I could only find my hardhat and that canary...  I have the KDS-16 with the Soak Cycle. Any literature would always be welcomed, but right now a detailed breakdown of the cycles is what I need.

 

[combo52]

KDS-16 Detergent Dispenser

MT did have a very similar looking Detergent Dispenser, I had had that thought many years ago and I can't remember if I actually tried to see if it would fit. Only the very early MT DD operated directly on 120 volts like your KAs does, once MT went to the BD DWs they used a Bi Metal that had to be in series with the Motor, like DA did on the 17s and later DWs. None of the MT DW DDs were all that great anyway., they often leaked, stuck or just broke.

 

Ken I fixed some of the KA DDs by filling down the white plastic latch plate just enough so it would catch when you were closing the cover.