Various timer delay systems interchange vintage GE Dishwashers

[panthera]

Well, our great big Filterflo project turned out to be a case of plugging her in and turning her on. No rust anywhere. Not even a hint of it by the safety-interlock. Or under the activator. Which is a straight vane.

We will need to re-shoe the two-speed clutch, but that's no big deal compared to what so many here helped us with on the last one.

So, off to project number two.

Got a 600 with temp sensor. Picked it up in the boneyard at Menards. Not easy, our closest store's manager is as bad as the idiot running Habitat in Cheyenne - anything older than five years can't be any good, so off to the metal yard.

Anyway, got it, brought it home to play with it and a question came up: I understand how the bi-metal timer delay works in many GEs. From a first, cursory glance, it appears as though this sensor runs a relay which has the same pin-out as the bi-metals?

Is this right? Could they be swapped (yes, obviously, the thermostat would have to be mounted, etc.)

Anybody know? Can't find a wiring diagram for this 600, doggone it.

Funny, the things which catch one's curiousity.

Thanks in advance.

 

[Chetlaham]

Tech sheet

GSD600D or GSD600G dishwasher? The tech sheet should be folded up into a small square tucked in underneath between the tub and motor shield on either the left or right side.

If you find it, post pics as I am in desperation looking for the same lol.

Meanwhile I have some tech sheets to some mid to late 90s Potscrubbers I can dig up and post on here. Wont be the same, but the cycle extender should be the same.

 

[Chetlaham]

GSD600G temp sensor and timing sequence

Ok, good news. I found pics of the tech sheet that goes to a GSD600G with temp sensor DW. Basically the way the water heating works is with temps below 140*F the sensor thermostat remains closed. Toward the end of the main wash cycle contacts 10M-10T within the timer close sending power through the thermostat energizing a heating coil inside the extender relay whereby cycling the relay open and closed and in turn with that the timer motor. While 10M-10T is closed for only 2 1/2 timer increment minutes, this action can extend the main wash by 8 minutes. On GSD600D models (the model before 600G)that time was 18 minutes (by which the main wash could be extended). If the thermostat opens before or during this heating delay, the cycling relay does not receive power to its internal heater ending the cyclic on/off and in turn delay.


The same relay was also used for the Potscrubber feature. If Pot-scrubber is pressed, contacts are closed within the selector switch (6 , 5) closing the circuit between timer contacts 4M-4B and the cycling relay. In the middle of the main wash timer contacts 4M-4B close for a period of 5 timer increment minutes extending the main wash by 20 minutes (from 19 to 39 minutes).

Of note, I do not believe the detergent and rinse agent dispense times are correct in this tech sheet as the rinse agent is always dispensed in the last rinse. Most likely what happened was when the timing chart was being redrawn from the 600D model for the new 600G model, they forgot to change when the detergent and rinse aid trip actually takes place.

If you have a 600D model and you find the tech sheet please post it. I would love to compare the differences between the two models.

Also, if you ever run into the same issue, if you call GE with the model and serial they will actually Email you the tech sheet.

 

[panthera]

Thanks!

I can't get to the plate to give you the exact number tonight, I will tomorrow. This is going to be fun.

tech sheet definitely not there, sigh. Will study the one you posted, thanks.

 

[Chetlaham]

Welcome

If the pics are blurry on AW (they are from here) I can email them to you.

 

[panthera]

Thanks!

I can't claim to be new, though, I'm quite old - vintage from the Yahoo days, even.

I switch to 'lurk mode' every so often and stay there for a few years. Really appreciate the help over the years.

I'm tempted to interchange the bi-metal delay in one of our 1200s against the sensor. See what happens. It's quite different in appearance to the safety sensor in the bottom of the tub in the 2800s, as well as a different package to the thermal sensor used by the 2800d series at the top (don't have pics of the 2800c and am not digging that far into our boneyard). 

 

So - probably a pre-logic bouncy as all get out set of heavy contacts. This is going to be fun!

 

 

[panthera]

December 1983

Goodness - I thought woodgrain was out by then?

 

[Chetlaham]

I like fun!

Yup, GE can send you the tech sheet for that model. If you would like I can call them with the model and serial and send it over once I get it but its all up to you. In any case the one I posted should be similar in operation.

If I am correct the safety sensor at the bottom of the 2800 actually opens the heating element preventing over heating while the thermostat in the 600D simply removes power to the cycle relay. I am unfamiliar with the 2800 series of machines but if they do not have a temperature sensor it certainly is worth adding one imo. Vintage GE machines have historically short main-washes when potscrubber was not pressed, so inlet temps below 140*F often resulted in lack luster results unless you had a temp sense model.

Of note, if you would like you could make it such that the heater kicks out when the water temp reaches 140-150*F. I say this because these machines have a double ended sword in that the heater runs the whole time during the main wash cycle irregardless of temp or cycle. This produced spectacular results with low water temps, however when high inlet temps (over 140*F) were used in conjunction with the potscrubber feature it would result in a 40 minute heated mainwash where the water temp climbs to 180*F or higher. Great for burned on soils, but occurring frequently resulted in significant premature aging of the machine, mainly the racks and pump seals. In fact the reason why I had to toss out my 600G at the condo I used to live in is because the sump boot deteriorated through. No doubt the 150*F inlet temp did it, hack you could see visible steam pulsing out of the vent. This is why most other manufactures like Whirlpool shut the heater off after the thermal hold.

 

[Chetlaham]

Woodgrain

Nope, in fact GE had it on their machines as late as 1988 I believe. My 1987 temp sensor was wood grain.

 

[panthera]

December 1983

Goodness - I thought woodgrain was out by then?

 

[panthera]

Proof I've been here for awhile - same mistakes

Sigh. I used to do that - post a reply to the wrong thread. Hence the removed right above.

Anyhoo, yes, the Twenty Eight Hundred series used sensors for heat. They were fully electronic and logic controlled (their downfall until board revision 'c') and the safety sensor wouldn't let the heater run forever.

The Perma-Tuf and innards were designed for up to 175F constant use, if I recollect properly. A unit which is constantly running above that is, indeed, going to be in trouble sooner or later. I suspect the danger is one reason GE downrated the heating elements to a measly 500W from 950/pulsed 950W.

I will write to GE, that's a good idea. This dishwasher was missing the kickplate but otherwise in almost like new shiny condition. I suspect it was nearly never used. Too BOL in too many ways for anything but a playtoy which will then be junked after pulling out useful innards. Of course, I might reuse the control panel on a higher model with timer trouble. Something with orbital am and power shower. And the big filter in the back. It's a thought. I did something similar whilst debugging the control board for a 2800D (the nasty one with the door sensor). Worked a charm.

Thanks again - I keep folks up-to-date with 'progress'. It may be an object lesson in what not to do...

 

[panthera]

Woodgrain in '88?

Wow. I was in Germany throughout the '80s, so missed all that.

Woodgrain is not my thing, but I don't mind it nearly as much as avocado and harvest gold. Or stainless steel.

We need a return to pastel colours and copper.

 

[Chetlaham]

Its alright, I do it all the time.

The 2800 sounds like an interesting machine, but Id take a mechanical model any day being the person that I am. Its a shame GE down graded the heaters. I think they did it to avoid a thermal cutoff on their perma-tuffs. Every DW besides GE has a thermal cutoff that I know of off the top of my head allowing them the use of larger heaters. That is not to say GE is 100% protected with a smaller heater. I once read a blog on the internet where the timer failed with the heater on and the the user having gone to work. They came back to the permatuff and rack cover melting. Eeekk!

If they send the tech sheet hit me an Email, Ive been looking for this one for a while with no avail.

BOL... Nahhh LOL. While it does not have the filter in the back, I would not mind having this as a daily driver for a few months if not a year just for the fun of it. These machines cleaned really well in Potscrubber cycle and had a nice long 32 minute dry which worked perfectly. If you install one of the new permanent split capacitor motor mechanisms the noise drops by 15 decibels and the wash/rinsing improves due to the reduced carry over water.

If interested here is the manual:

http://products.geappliances.com/Ma.../Dispatcher?RequestType=PDF&Name=49-53351.PDF

I have a soft spot for Woodgrain, something about the 80s look resonates with me. I hate avocado and harvest gold. Stainless steel I like however. This machine should have an interchangeable front panel. You can turn it over and change the color in a breeze. Ive known people to actually put customer wall paper on it.

 

[panthera]

Thanks,

Well, we shall see. We've got several models up and down from this in the boneyard, so I'll probably just play with it and then either restore it and give away or take the guts.

I rather like the shaded pole motors in these - they're so charmingly loud and determined. Got a few SIEMENS in the boneyard, though, might go that route. Pity GE went  from them to China Pride trash. Without the power shower, not sure it's worth it, though.

The 2800 series was TOL and it showed. the electronics weren't the big problem, the sensors were - and are - especially the lower arm reed switch doohickey. That was poorly thought out.

More to follow.

 

[Chetlaham]

Wash arm sweep sensor

Ive seen those get cut on tossed out machines. Personally I think the perfect balance between BOL and TOL is a GSD940 or 900... any machine with a power shower. The 1,200 is also nice but I like to avoid the overly complicated rapid advance timer, although being honest those often lasted just as well as the mechanical models in my experience.

Personally I would do a control panel swap. 12 years ago I took a early 90s electronic GE with the works (filter, power shower, geared wash arm) and stuck on a GSD940G control panel. It gave me the basic control but with advanced cleaning features.