Vintage KitchenAid Dishwasher KDS-17

[jimb]

I moved back into my first house which has a very nice stainless steel Kitchen Aid KDS-17 dishwasher. The machine works like a champ, but the fill rate seems a bit slow. I completely rebuilt the fill valve, removing a lot of foreign material, but it didn't appear to help much. The initial fill cycle barely gets enough water in the tub to start spraying before it drains for the next cycle.

Can someone explain how the the dual solenoid valve works? Might I have one bad solenoid?

Also, as we're a family of four, we really need a machine with greater capacity. I have to hand wash a lot of items because I can't get them to fit like I could in our 2000 Maytag.

https://picasaweb.google.com/102324539916158885601/HowToLoadADishwasher#

If there's anyone in the San Francisco Peninsula area who would like this fine specimen, please make me an offer. I have replaced the timer, door springs, and silverware rack. I also have the original manual. I'd like it to go to a good home.

See link below for photos.

Thanks![this post was last edited: 8/22/2012-02:40]

http://picasaweb.google.com/102324539916158885601/KitchenAidKDS17#

 

[washer111]

A Suggestion

If it were possible, you could possibly look in the Bay area for a newer model. Starting with the KDS-18 (and above), there were two wash-arms for the dishwasher, which allows for greater loading. I think the racks and the space inside the machine got bigger too.

I think Whirlpool owned KitchenAid by the KDS-23/22 model so if you get a 21, you should be all-right.

That, or you could go after a Maytag model of a similar vintage to the one you already had (being sure that the machine wasn't affected by the recall).

Below is a link to a KitchenAid advertisement brochure. I believe the timer based models are the LAST of the Rapid-Advancing Superba models (so you'd have the last of a dying technology).
Maybe you could pick something out from there?

Identify Kitchen Aid DW ?

Can anyone identify this KA, and if so, is it worth owning? Thanks !! ---- Rick

www.automaticwasher.org

 

[DADoES]

The first fill is intended to be a 1/2-fill (1 minute) to purge standing cold water from the supply line, so don't reference that for the "normal" fill level. Assuming all successive fills are higher (2 mins each) then you're OK on that point.

 

[combo52]

KDS-17 Fill Problems

If the main wash and rinse fills are too low for powerful and continuous water circulation you likley have a fill valve problem [ test by adding an extra gallon of water and see if the circulation sound improves ]. By far the best thing to do is to replace the complete valve, these are still available from WP Pt# 4170000.

 

Dissembling and cleaning an old valve without replacing the rubber valve seals is usually a waste of time and the only time I would attempt this is if no replacement parts or complete valve is available. When just taking an old valve apart and cleaning and reassembling and cleaning you are playing with a flood if the valve decides to not shut off [ I have even seen these older dual valves flood ]. Cleaning a partially blocked screen will never make any difference [ it just makes us feel good LOL ] as the screens on DW inlet valves are 30 times bigger than necessary for proper water fill, so unless it is totally blocked in a 1/4 inch thick crud a slightly dirty screen will not restrict normal water flow. 

 

Good Luck, John.

 

[DADoES]

 
Upon checking the available documentation (didn't have access when posting the previous reply), the 17 series Superba model does a line purge only on the Soak cycle.

Water valves surely can become clogged enough to impair the fill level, for example after plumbing work is done on the house. Happened on a "modern" Whirlpool unit at a foreclosure house a friend refurbished last year. Cleaning debris out of the valve solved the low-fill problem.

 

[kakidd]

Beautiful Machine

I would love to find one close to me in such great condition. You will never find a new machine that cleans as well or is built as solid as your KDS-17. Do what you can to keep it going and know you have one of the best dishwashers ever made!

 

[combo52]

Inlet valve Screens

Do can indeed clog, my point is if you can still see most of the SS metal screen when you look into the inlet of the valve taking apart and cleaning it will not help and may do more damage than good. But if the screen area is completely packed with rust, sand, or often bits of plastic from a water hearers disintegrating dip-tube then the material must be removed.

 

In the field we almost never see clogged screens on DWs and Ice Makers and if these two low water use appliances are having trouble with clogging then every faucet air-rater and shower-head would have had problems many times over and one should be installing a whole house water filter.

 

[bigalsf]

Flow Restrictor

Just a thought, but could the flow restrictor in the valve be clogged? Easy way to test is to remove it & try the machine again. If it works and you get too much water you can always partially close the main valve on the plumbing line.

The machine should not overflow since the pressure switch should kick in and turn the valve off.

Good luck!

 

[combo52]

Bad Flow Restricter ?

I have never seen a bad or clogged flow restrictor and if you remove it on a timed fill machine it will overfill. Yes the overfill pressure switch should prevent a flood, but the overfill pressure on KD16s and KD17s were know for not being always reliable. The KDS17 is already one of the highest water use DWs ever made using almost 20 gallons per full load and the pump out periods were only a minute long so these DWs often had trouble getting all the water out if they were connected to a slightly restrictive air-gap anyway. So if you removed the flow restrictor the machine could consume over 30 gallons per full load, I hope you have cheap and plentiful water and a solar water heater, LOL.

 

The reason many older inlet valves fill too slowly is the valve diaphragms get a grove set in them and they don't allow enough water to pass through, if you replace these rubber diaphragms the valve will usually work like new.

 

[rp2813]

I don't think there's that much difference in capacity between a series 17 and the series of Hobart KitchenAids that came after that.

 

The main difference is that series 18 and later had an upper wash arm that provided the ultimate in loading flexibility.  Your capacity issues could be resolved with a KA just one model newer.

 

Jim, I don't expect you to try and hunt down a viable vintage KitchenAid to replace the one you have, but if you're so inclined, look for KDS-18 through 22 models.  Your stainless door panels from the KDS-17 might fit on those.  Maybe even the 23 series, but that's when KitchenAid dishwashers started turning into Whirlpools.  Someone else here should be able to confirm or correct that information.

 

You might be able to unload the KDS-17 on craigslist, but if you get no takers and decide to kick it to the curb, save the stainless panels.  I'd be interested in those if you don't think you'll be getting another KA machine that they'll fit on.

 

I doubt any of the trouble with your 17 is due to hard water issues.  You can't get any better than Hetch Hetchy.  A couple of years ago I bought an In-Sink-Erator clone of a KitchenAid 22 series.  It had spent its life in San Carlos and was in beautiful shape.  I credit Hetch Hetchy water for the lack of scale build-up on any part of the machine.  The pipes in my house are almost 85 years old and very constricted, particularly those serving the kitchen sink.  The dishwasher wasn't filling completely.  I removed the flow restrictor in the fill valve.  The filling process is nearly silent now, and I have the valve on the hot water supply line opened only part way so as to allow a gap of approximately 30 seconds after the tank fills before washing action begins.  Just in case a toilet gets flushed during the fill period.

 

Ralph

 

[combo52]

KDS-17 Front Panels

Will not fit any KA DW newer than a 17 series KA DW unless they are flat panels in a trim kit and then they will only fit the Architectural series machines with the 6" high control panels.

 

[jimb]

Thanks everyone!

What a great group! Lots of helpful info here.

I timed the initial cycle. It drains initially, then the prewash cup opens. Then it begins filling at 0:15 and it takes about a minute before the wash arm starts squirting and rotating. It drains after about three minutes so it appears that it's running dry for too long. Checking the later cycles does reveal a normal fill level.

When I rebuilt and cleaned the fill valve, there was a lot of debris (rust, algae, and solder bits) in front of the inlet filter.

About 20 years ago the machine started flooding due to the fill valve not shutting off. I traced it to the small tube that goes from the sump to the pressure switch. The inside of the tube rusted shut because the porcelain enamel didn't reach inside the tube. I rooted it out and inserted an oversized plastic tube like a stent. That's a permanent fix for this problem.

I tried to locate the valve on line but had no luck. I think I'll try to rebuild it again, this time replacing the rubber discs. (I think they were discs.)

I'll keep using the machine for the time being and put up with the small capacity and noise. I do like the quick cycle time and the dishes do get super clean. It's also a looker.

My Maytag MDB9100 can hold a lot more and is easier to load. I installed the "recall kit" and it seems to work fine, but it's nowhere near the quality of the old KitchenAid.

Again, if anyone is interested in the KDS-17, I'm willing to let it go for whatever the interested party wants to pay.

Thanks for all the help!

http://picasaweb.google.com/102324539916158885601/HowToLoadADishwasher#