vintage vs modern combos

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firedome

firedome

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Binghamton NY & Lake Champlain VT
Are there any vintage combos that any sane person would try to use as a regular/daily machine, parts & reliability wise? If not, are there any US-made modern combos beig produced anymore? SWMBO insists on a combo for camp, being frustrated by lack of a dryer due to very confined space, and given the fickle nature of the Northern Vermont climate for outside drying, but I can't imagine any older unit to be viable, or swallow the idea of buying a foreign-made unit, given the tenuous state of US appliance manufacturing, if that option still exists. ???
 
There aren't any U.s. made.  Combos are predominantly sold in European and Asian markets.  We keep hoping and wishing Whirlpool would get the hint.  A 240v. would be ideal then may not need condenser drying system.  Major downfall to modern ones is that you can wash a full load in it but have to remove 1/2 the load to dry and dry said load in two phases.  Vintage ones, manufacturers (GE & Whirlpool aND bENDIX) HAD YOU FILL MACHINE ABOUT 1/2 OR SLIGHTLY MORE TO WASH AND THEN DIDNT HAVE TO WORRY ABOUT REMOVING PART OF LOAD FOR EFFECTIVE DRYIG).  (I'm not yelling, I'm just too tired and fingers too tired to retype the all caps segment). 
 
1965 bendix washer dryer

I've used my 1965 bendix washer dryer or combo for 14 years ( it was unused up until then) as my daily driver. It was great. Vented drying but only one heat ( fierce! ) it sadly devolved timer and thermostat issues so I've had to retire it for a modern Bosch version

The new machine is quiet so quiet and very effective at washing and drying. There's as huge difference in spin speeds. Going from 650 rpm to 1400 and is condensing drying. But I will be sad my bendix beast isn't in my kitchen anymore ( it's safely stored until I can get a washer room !!)

I will do a post on here about the new machine eventually!!

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One problem..

.
With 240v would be that a combo is usually for very small apartments, which are often old.
Old apartments almost never have a 240v service.
I live in a NYC tenement and have 12(!) amps of 120v.
There are two outlets in the entire apartment. The ceiling fixtures were gas at one time.
Because of this the local appliance dealer carries a 120v LG combo.
Running 240v to our apartment would cost many thousands of dollars perhaps even 10k or more. It will never happen until it's renovated back to the studs...and probably not even then.[this post was last edited: 9/26/2015-19:09]
 
@stricklybojack

Now you understand why so many Miele units sit on CL or otherwise cannot be sold in NYC.

Said it many times but persons just wouldn't believe, not much of NYC apartments have 240v service nor can it always be brought in easily and inexpensively. Am sure this was the reason Miele finally relented and despite saying for years it would never so do began selling 120v washing machines in USA.
 
You should talk to Jeff_Adelphi about the 120 volt LG combo he uses. It's not small and it takes a long time, but he might have a favorable word or two about it. I frankly was very disappointed after I read about the mediocre performance of the Miele combo, such as length of drying time, not that it is available in the US as far as I know.
 
As with condenser dryers

Small/compact combo units aren't perfect nor are expected to be such. Rather they are a solution to a problem and as such something usually must give.

Now if we had those huge Bendix, GE and other American combination washers/dryers with their huge drums and either gas or high powered electric heating elements things *might* be different. Indeed with today's modern advances such as better suspension systems, electronically controlled motors (allowing for greater and better extraction) think of what could be done.
 
Most everywhere, if one updates any portion of the wiring the ENTIRE BUILDING has to be brought up to current code. That's where the 10s of thousands $ come from.
 
The water usage (and output) of a vintage combo would be a big strike against it for use in the VT lake house, Roger...  You-Know-How hovers and constantly reminds me about how much water the GE combo uses on a dry cycle (so I just use it when he's away on business trips... LOL).  

 

I thought that Whirlpool made one that was vented - probably one of the gas-fired models.  John will know for sure... 

 

Now, if they made one that had some kind of a heat pump system to cool the dryer condenser water and recirculate it, that could open up a whole new world of possibilities.  John is probably also building one but not telling.... LOL  
 
I have a 1959 Philco/Bendix . . .

. . . combo and it works great. It's not my daily driver, but it could be.

I recently put in a load, took a nap and when I woke up, the load was washed and dried, ready to put away or wear.

Jerry Gay
 
A typical NYC apartment has 120v service, gas piped in for the stove, and no windows or outside walls in any wet areas. In addition, central a/c is a rarity.

As for updating any portion of a building requiring the whole building to be brought up to code, I suspect that's not the case in NYC, at least not in practice.

I suspect the least problematic workaround will be a large 120v combo unit and an electric drying rack so 1/2 the laundry can get started on drying as it's waiting for space in the dryer.
 
All of the WP-made combos were air flow drying units, whether gas or electric. Westinghouse, Philco and Easy offered both condensing and air flow electric models. Philco, Easy and Norge gas-drying combos were vented. John told me that he believes that the Maytag gas combo, while having to be vented to dispose of the combustion gases, used the same condensation chamber set up to dispose of the drying lint.

If you have the space and your drain connections allow, you can recycle the nicely warmed condensing water into a top loader for washing a load of laundry in warm water. If you are on a well, you might be able to find a way to drain the water outside so that it goes back into the ground. So-called dry wells are excellent for that purpose and take the strain off septic systems. With all of the equipment most of us have, the most energy-efficient way to use an older combo is to put the fabrics through a spin in something that really extracts the water from the load before drying to shorten the drying time.
 
Actually many NYC apartment buildings/individual units

Are being renovated to modern standards. Sadly this usually is a gut renovation in the case of an existing structure done after tenant or tenants have vacated (or likely pushed out). In such instances electrical, gas and plumbing services are usually upgraded to handle modern appliance demand including laundry.

More and more apartments in Manhattan and elsewhere both new construction and gut renovation are adding not only dishwashers but laundry equipment (washers and dryers). In fact there has been an uptick in condenser dryer sales. My AEG guy in Canada said they finally got a local repairman down here because of high number of installs)because many property owners/developers equipping units with washers and dryers. Sadly often the nature of building design here means not every apartment has an outside facing wall that can be used for venting a dryer. This means by default a condenser dryer will be installed.

Here is a building on the UES a co-worker checked out. This was pretty much an entire building emptied of existing tenants and units gut renovated including combining smaller apartments to make larger. Washers and dryers installed in units are either Blomberg or Bosh but all the dryers are condenser.

http://www.245east80.com/

Cannot imagine anyone running a condenser dryer in NYC during the warmer months of the year. This particular summer was not only hot but featured nearly endless weeks upon weeks of high moisture. This means air conditioners were working hard. So now I'm going to crank on an appliance that will heat the place up? Nope. My AEG Lavatherm hasn't been touched since late last winter.

New Yorkers in the past went with combo units by Malber, Equator and so forth but we won't stir those old pools. I wonder however if a full sized combination unit with not only 240v or gas heating ability but vented would make things better.
 
thanks for all that info....

I may have to resort to removing the cabinet over the washer and getting a conventional stacker. Being that we prefer top-loading machines, are there any US made stacking machines that approach the load capacity of a usual side X side pair and work well? A concern is that the wash loads will be too small.
 
I don't consider a Frigidaire Galery dishwasher as being "high-end appliance".  Something spiffy I"ve not seen before on a gas range--the ability to turn on both front and back burners for either left or right side.  Kind of cool for griddles for making pancakes. 
 
looking at the various 27" stack units available...

Whirlpool's larger capacity machines have all controls on the top... 5ft SWMBO would not be amused. Looks like GE has a 3.2 cu ft 27" model with controls on the bottom panel of the dryer, becoming the likely choice. One wishes that SQ deigned to make a stacking laundry center!
 
The WP or MT 27" Top-Load-Stack

Is by far the best choice, these are still the Direct-Drive machines and are extremely durable and able to be repaired in place without moving it from the installed position.

 

I have never seen an adult that is too short to operate the controls on this machine, I would suggest going and looking at one in person. The controls are far better at the top, Frigidaire has lots of problems with fires and other problems with the controls below the dryer.

 

The GE 27" stack is not a FD design and the washer part is an absolute piece of junk about half of these washers we look at we condemn, the washers main seal goes out in as little as a year or so and ruins the main bearings and these are impossible to repair. I condemned one last Monday that was just two and a half years old, only good thing is that GE knows what a POS these are and immediately offered our customer a new machine for half price, they did not even try to dispute our repair estimate of about $1000.00 they know that these machines are virtually unrepairable, LOL.

 

If you can't reach the controls on the WP-MT and have to have a TL washer get the Frigidaire 27" stack, at least with the FD you have a decent chance of it lasting 10-15 years.

 

I will say by far the best full size stack is the SQ FL stack, unless you can not afford it you can't find a better machine period. And consider at our ages putting the SQ in your will as it could be going strong in 50 years.
 
gas piped in for the stove

Just one small more bit of thread drift...

More and more new buildings and or renovated NYC apartments are getting shot of gas for cooking and going with electric (induction usually) type stoves, ranges or separate ovens. The other old standard for heating (steam) is going as well in favor of forced air or those in wall PTAC units.

Some of this is billed as going "green" or allowing for better resident/tenant comfort (ablity to have central air and heating controlled by apartment), but there is one other thing; cheaping out.

Going over to PTAC and getting shot of gas ranges allows landlords at least for rentals to save that much per year in terms of heating and gas costs. If they don't supply heat then that becomes the tenants responsibility. Given local high electric rates you can imagine the cost of running those PTAC units all winter long. Cooking with electric is in theory cleaner, but again it allows for a cost shifting.

Some buildings by mandate contained in lease require tenants to run their PTAC units at a certain temperature 24/7 regardless if the apartment is occupied. So anyone thinking about saving some money by leaving the things off when they are at work or whatever is out of luck.
 
Combos Wash & Dry 13.2lbs, 6kg

Its a pity you cant experience some of our modern combo washer dryers that we have here albeit 240 volts, mine washes a full 9kg 18lbs and will wash & dry a full 6kg 13.2 lbs continuous. With variable wash temps from cold through 90d (194f)near boiling, up to 5 rinses including "Medic Rinse or Allergy Wash, all rinses can be heated to get rid of allergens and dust mites.

With the fast spin speeds 1400 - 1600 rpm and features like Thermal Spinning (20 mins into the dry cycle it starts to fast spin with the heater blower on, this moves the water out of clothes quicker aiding faster drying times!! )

I can wash 6kg of whites T-shirts, towels etc @ 60d (140f) in 1.31 mins, a fast 1400 spin for 9 mins then it takes just over an hour for drying to cupboard sensor dry.

http://https//www.flickr.com/photos/chestermikeuk/albums/72157641154166335
 
thanks for all the input...

John, good info, we'll look at the WPs first, there's always the step stool if necessary!

Will also look at the SQs, we know their reputation, but have been put off FLs in general because so many seem to complain of odors and asundry other issues, which may or may not BE real issues, but then again I'm known as something of a traditionalist dyed-in-the-wool change-resisting Olde Farte LOL!

SWMBO was what Rumpole of the Bailey used to refer to his rather stern wife.
In my case it's strictly used as a term of affection!
 
Steam heat: Generally speaking buildings put up before WWII had a design temp of 0F, meaning rooms could be maintained at 70F (60F?) as long as the outside temperature was 0F or higher. Windows were normally single-paned and drafty. Individual radiators in each room were sized to allow this.

Problem #1. Now in 2015, even the oldest buildings have double-paned windows with few if any leaks. As a result rooms are often overheated. Common sense dictates that slower valves be used in overheated rooms (to save energy) but that concept is far too complicated for most to understand.

Many pre-WWII buildings and nearly all 1-3 family pre-WWII homes are designed with low-tech, LOW pressure (as in steam pressure under TWO psi) single pipe systems that are dependent on the non-negotiability of laws of physics to run efficiently.

Problem #2: There are very few steam heat specialists alive today who actually understand why these systems were designed the way they were. Many homes have 'updates' made decades ago causing losses in efficiency. Scams abound: You see, sir, your system has to be replaced because it is old and inefficient and I'll conveniently not tell you that it worked JUST FINE 100 years ago because the technicians back then knew what they were doing.

I've had some so-called experts seriously didn't understand that no, the steam pipes CAN'T be level because then the condensate (sorry, was that too big a word for you?) can't flow back into the boiler. No, you CAN'T just take the insulation off the first 15' of steam pipe without compensating for the resultant heat loss and expect the system operate the same way. No, you CAN'T replace a clogged 'E' valve with a 'C' and expect the room to be equally warm. No, this is NOT my personal philosophy of steam heat. These are laws of physics! I know that was long-winded, but really I've barely scratched the surface. The incompetence of steam 'experts' is mind-blowing.

With a PTAC system, nobody has to understand anything. You can just slap it in, connect the wires, and stick the person living there with a needlessly high electric bill. Launderess' most excellent point regarding humidity really needs more emphasis, IMO. These past several summers have been extremely humid, to the point that dehumidification must be considered independently of cooling. As discussed in another thread, recent changes in residential a/c units have rendered them more efficient at cooling (thereby satisfying the 'goobermint') AND less efficient at dehumdification. Anyone see the problem here in the East?

The only solution I see on an individual level is to do it all ourselves. Apartment too clammy, buy a dehumidifier. Hot water luke warm? Make sure your dishwashers and washers can heat their own water. Landlord replaced your 4' steam radiator with 4' of hot water baseboard? Buy an electric heater to compensate for the unacknowledged 50% reduction in heat output.

It's beyond absurd.

Jim
 
if going vintage and stacked...

My mother has a Maytag LSG7804 full size washer with orbital transmission and gas dryer stacked unit I bought for her back in 1992...the ONLY problem it's ever had is the washer timer had to be replaced a couple years ago and the blower wheel for the dryer...and she washes at least one load per day! Maytag had these from the late '80s...some were electronic digital controls (I'd avoid the digital ones). I've seen these on CL around here. My husband's aunt has the same one in her lake house except electric dryer. The controls are UNDER the dryer, not on top so my 5'4" mother has no trouble reaching them. She loves it! We also took out the cabinet above the washer to fit it in...but it gave her more space not having the dryer sitting on the floor beside the washer...and a countertop work area. Just a thought!
 
MT TL Stack W&D

These were decent machines and certainly better than almost any 24" stack.

 

That said the 27" WP machine is superior in every major respect, including capacity of both the washer and dryer, cleaning and drying performance,  reliability, ease of repair and probably one of the biggest items is ease of installation. The MT machine has EIGHT FEET and they all need to be leveled properly and the lock nuts tightened against the washers base or the dryers frame, not an easy task when the machine is installed in a closet or alcove where you can't get 5o the sides of the machine. I bet I have only seen a few of the hundreds of these I have worked on over the last 25 years that were installed properly. Other problem you can't get to the dryer vent connection, the faucets, drain stand pipe and in most cases the power cord when this machine is installed unless you want to pull the washer out of the frame.

 

On the WP you only have to adjust the front legs and tighten the lock nuts, the rear legs are self-leveling like every WP BD or DD washer ever made back to 1949. The WP also allows some access to utility connections through an easily removable access panel between the washer and dryer, but most importantly the dryer vent is easy to connect and disconnect here with the machine in place so you don't have to have 6 feet of vent tubing crushed behind the machine.

 

The MT stacks came out in 1985, they were only electronically controlled till about 1990 when they also introduced the models with mechanical controls and in another year they discontinued the electronic altogether, ironically after they worked the early bugs out of the electronic models. If I were getting one of the MT stacks I would only get the electronic version, it is much more flexible in operation[ we have saved a gas one for the museum].

 

The MT stacks disappeared very soon after WP took over MT, the only really good thing about the MT was it is smaller in depth than the WP and it is easier to move into old houses where you need to be able to move the washer and dryer in separately. Over the years we sold several WPs and could not get them into the home and had to come back with the MT.

 

John L.
 

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