So much crap in one thread
Really, it's all a few searches away.
A full wash - PreWash - 60C/140F wash - rinse - rinse - dry uses 1.2kWh on the Non Sensor normal cycle and takes 2 1/2h.
The one hour wash - if you prefer that - does 150F wash - rinse - rinse - partial dry with 10l in one hour at about the same kWh.
If you let it run until the dry ends with AutoOpen and 5min later the fan turning off, it's about 10min longer.
If you add extra dry it's another 10min I think on top.
Extra clean adds a pre-wash and an extended main wash and is a total max of 1:40h with 16l and 1.4kWh max.
That is not sensor though - that could be easily added in though and could definetly meet that value.
Today. Even at 120V - that adds no time currently since it assumes hot fill.
Nothing has to change, if - especially on the low end - the US appliances must have INSANE markups.
Retail markups are long all but almost gone, the manufacturer does the major cut.
I mean I know my Mieles DW buy in price - the normal sold at price was an insane markup there, but that is high end.
Low end actual profit was maybe covrring operating cost per day at our store. If that. Commissions from other sales and other contract was much much higher.
CO2 production: I partially agree with that.
Appliances SHOULD either get way more green OR last an acceptable time.
However, I can tell you that most major failures in the first 10 years FOR MY SPECIFIC workplaces product category (Built in fridges and freezers and combos for basically all markets except most of the US) is extremly low.
A specific product that we sell medium much off (low to mid tens of thousands) are requiring like 300 door trays of one kind PER YEAR.
Given that is one of the most breaking parts, and it is sold at a few tens of euros, that is NOTHING.
These are the things that can break just by storing something to big like a big drink bottle by just wacking the door closed.
I don't consider that "breaking".
And we do offer compressors for fridges by law for 10 years or more. Even specific sets for in field replacement for ease of installation.
And honestly - that is apparently the hardest to understand - even at inflated prices todays fridges can be had SO CHEAP at AMAZING efficencies compared to even 20 years ago.
Sure it makes production more expensive - but after new efficency classes were introduced - an entirely new architecture was designed, is being prepared for launch in the next few years and that will offer the same efficencies priced like todays products 1 or 2 EU classes lower.
A new factory in Mexico is being built specifically for the US market RIGHT NOW.
That is SPECIFICALLY ment to increase competitiveness in the U.S. market under new regulations.
If you compare prices to like 20 years ago - INCLUDING INFLATION - they should probably all have increased FAR MORE.
One way to keep afloat while paying good wages is either to raise prices - that is not feasable in the low to mid market region.
So - you raise profits by selling products. Since basically every household has every appliance, the replacement rate is basically almost the sales rate.
Every price range has it's own replacement rate and thus projected thus engineered lifetime - at some point, you can't make appliances at a certain quality at certain price ranges.
You'll notice newly classed appliances to suddenly get much cheaper and then suddenly much more expensive.
First people start buying new, better efficency classes. Then the sale from the manufactuer seazes due to regulation, prices drop much lower to clear out stock. As demand outpaces the new limited supply prices increase rapidly to the insane almost collector piece prices.
At that point, the new range sells for the old ranges sale prices at better efficencies.
It goes through the reverse process at the beginning.
But the most amazing thing - new appliances ARE MUCH GREENER OVER THE LIFETIME.
The EPA estimated emission of CO2 per kWh is 0.855lbs.
A fridge apparently produces 400kg per appliance, much higher than washers and dryers at half that.
The source (link below) is probably negativley biased, but let's use the upper limit.
That is 882lbs approximatley. Make it 885lbs for ease of math.
Lets say the usage of the new appliance is by chance one kWh per day - say a fridge.
The old appliance uses 10% more than the new one (keep in mind we could do that easily).
1kWh = 90%
1% of 1kWh at 90% is 0.01111 repeating.
That makes 100% at 1,1111kWh repeating. Cut some slack, make it 1.1kWh.
So, a new appliance uses it's own production CO2 emissions in:
885lbs/0.885lbs per day = 1000 days
Or 2 3/4 years.
At this rate, it still takes nearly 27 1/2 years to offset a new appliance production, yes.
But if your fridge ever needs replacing for any reason that is prohibitively expensive - like a compressor or control board - you can be assured that even running it for "just" 10 years produced more than 3,5 times the CO2 of it's production.
Given that most new appliances ARE replacements, that number suddenly becomes SO MUCH MORE impactfull, especially over their lifetime.
The following is NOT accounting for further decarbonisation in energy grids AND appliances getting even more efficient.
At the 2021 electricity emissions, and the current 2021 kWh emissions, and the Statis date of fridges of the US in 2015 at about 118Mio, if each fridge is replaced by a 10% more efficent model, over a 20 year timeframe constantly at 5%, that switch would cause a cummulative saving over the 20 years of over 95% of the production stage.
Keep in mind - the US is already 10+ years behind the EU in that fridge efficency regard.
In 20 years, we want to have met our emission standards for electricity, the grid won't be any more resilient for sure. We can't decarbonize at the current total energy draw, its basically impossible in that time frame.
Every kWh matters - and yes, even the worser electric cars offset themselfes to CO2 advantage after a couple 10k miles AT CURRENT EMISSIONS.
This switch of fridges basically offsets itself already, at that puny efficency gain, if NO FURTHER REGILATION IS DONE.
That switch can be done, way more is apparently supposed to happen.
Even those maths probably works out, as mind boggling it is.
So yeah.
How often does a DW run? Definetly several times a week.
It's carbon emissions are half of a fridge apparently during production.
Keep in mind all the water purification cost and emissions saved.
Plus any energy.
For what? Something you do maybe once a day that will definetly offset itself nationwide over 20 years - just to unload the DW at a different time, if even that.
Alex Crumbie and Josie Wexler crunch the numbers on the enormous carbon impact of steel, along with other environmental and social impacts of producing steel for home appliances and infrastructure.
www.ethicalconsumer.org
