Washer Choice,

[henene4]

I'll never get you...

I really can't get you.
First, I don't know why you have to set your thermostat DOWN to 20°C. Our house has constantly nice 22°C through out the year. We got 260 heater square meters and only use 3500 liters of oil each years for 7 peoples hot water and heating. That's not much for a house and heating system 27 years old.
We are 7 of us, we cook, bake, cool, shower just as we want. Still, we stay beneath 4900 kWh each year.
We really don't save much, but there are just tiny things that save energy.
For example: lighting. We switch to LED step by step now since 2 years and we see slow but steady gain the one and other hWh. And I don't know your electricity rates, but once you pass the 25 cents per kWh (we are getting to 30 next year) and 5€ per cubic meter water (Not sure, but I think we always went around the 700m³ in the maximum), even this saves money AND is efficent.
We have a dryer and use it frequently. So, after our standard condensor dryer failed, we invested in a heat pump dryer. At 200 cycles a year and 50% electricity saveings, we get the additional 200€ back in less than 2 years. And waiting 10 minutes longer for a load of towels won't kill you.
What I'm trying to say that you should simply stop makeing fun of somebody who just thinks logical. And efficent. And not the "I know it that way. Why accept change?" way.
A SQ cleans laundry well. It rinses it well. It lasts long.
But a LG cleans at least as well. And rinses as well. It might only last ½ the time, yet, it saveings are huge. It has these features you would use from time to time. And it would have the ability to WASH a pillow, not only to soak it. And it could disinfect laundry if necessary. And it could heat the water. And and and...
So see the world as it is: Changeing, advancing and developing. Even SQ goes this way. So why not you?
(As I don't want to get a LG heat pump dryer rivival, I won't further reply on this thread.)

 

[washman]

Well some clarification for you Henene4:
1. I RENT not OWN a townhouse/condo. Thus I am at the mercy of the HVAC equipment that was installed when this was built in the late 80's.
2. I have NO say so at all regarding the HVAC performance. In other words, if it works, have a nice day. What I did do several years ago was replace the round Honeywell t-stat with a LUX programmable.
3. Similarly, I cannot change the insulation, windows or the upper and lower sliding doors which leak like a sieve.
4. My HVAC system is old school natural gas with a 220v central air unit. They are full on or full off. Neither is a Hi-eff unit.
5. Most homes in the US are forced air. As you know hot air rises. Well if I keep the tstat at 70 sure the downstairs is warm but the upstairs where I sleep is hot.
6. Believe it or not, it does take several days, sometimes weeks for me to become acclimated to cooler temps. This cold shot came rather quickly. Just last week I ran the A/C for 2 nights!

You would have been wise to ask what, if any, measures I have taken to reduce energy costs. But you didn't so I will attempt to illuminate your knowledge a bit.
1. See #2 above
2. Used felt weatherstripping all around the patio doors and the front doors to seal off air leaks.
3. Did the same thing to my door leading to my garage.
4. Wrapped my water heater with an insulating blanket.
5. Turned water heater from 145 down to 130. I tolerate less hot showers and less of a "hot" wash in the SQ
6. Switched all interior lights to CFL. It is true, they do last MUCH longer than traditional Edison style bulbs. And when they are warmed up, put out the same soft yellowish light.
7. Invested in a mattress warmer so I can have the furnace down to 65 at night and not awake with stiff muscles.
8. In the summer I go around in shorts and sometimes no shirt. That means I can use a 65w Hi velocity fan rather than the A/C to say cool.
9. Have taken to manually cleaning my Caloric oven with soap and water rather than run the 3 hour clean cycle which gobbles up electricity (although it does clean well)
10. Wear long sleeve sweatshirt and sweatpants in the winter with socks.
11. Run the SQ only when I have a completely full load. Believe it or not, especially in the winter, I dry about half my articles in the free air, not the dryer.
12. Ran pipe insulation as far as I can on the exposed hot water pipes in the basement to their termination points.
13. On sunny winter days, which are rare around here, I open all the blinds to take advantage of the suns rays.

Over and above that, I also combine auto trips. I HAVE to drive 5 days a week to work but on day 6, I can work at home. Obviously this saves fuel.
I also run my tyres at higher pressure than Toyota recommends. While it makes for a slightly harsher ride (not that a Corolla rides like a Lexus anyway), it cuts down rolling resistance and as a result, I get better MPG.
I also change the air filter 2x a year. Yes, air filters can trap dirt that you cannot see with the naked eye, reducing airflow into your engine. This results in a more consistent performance and better MPG.

As I stated many times, I don't care one whit IF an appliance maker comes up with a better idea AND the marketplace (consumer) endorses it. That is called competition and when it is allowed to work in a free market economy, it can do wonders for product improvements.

What I do have a problem with is government arbitrarily dictating these so called energy standards without ANY input whatsoever and doing it all under the guise of a major worldwide climate crisis, which in reality does not exist.

I've read far too many complaints on more message boards, forums than you can imagine. I personally looked at these machines when I knew I had to replace the GE. Yes, believe it or not I did do some research. What I found out was CR loves them because they happen to fit CR's agenda. I also found out they do not clean well, require additional cleanings and simply don't last as long as older machines. That is my biggest gripe; these things cost more money but fail to deliver longevity or performance. And I ask myself, why? Oh yes, I forgot, the all knowing government regulations kicked in and they had no choice. Well you'll never see my jump on that bandwagon. Never.

In other words, these DOE regulations are in response to a problem that was blown way out of proportion and talked up by the gutless media as the next "crisis" that simply must be dealt with no matter what.

I suppose it all comes down to one's perception of what government can and should do. Some of us here stateside, myself included, bristle at more control, more regulation, more intrusion in our private lives. Others accept these things and just go along. As you have probably figured out, I don't. Whether you agree or not, that is your choice my friend.

But I hope I have dispelled myths and/or stereotyping that I burn, churn, and use any and all resources to my hearts content, costs be dammned.

 

[appnut]

Bob made a Tide commercial???

4 weeks ago I was changing the sheets on my bed to some light blue ones.  I didn't realize it at the time, but right before I started making up the bed, I'd cut my finger and I didn't realize it until after I had started putting the sheets on the bed that my finger was bleeding and I had gotten blood on my top sheet where my finger had streaked across it with blood.  I wsent ahead and used those sheets for the week and actually forgot about the blood stain.  Throw it in my Duet on Allergan with Tide HE with Bleach.  To my shock, I'd forgotten about the stain and didn't set the control properly to deal with such a stain.  It went through the washer and dryer.  As I was folding the sheet, I noticed the blood stain still there, much to my disgust, they are some of my favorite sheets.  So Wednesday evening this week, I put the "clean" sheet back in the machine with a scoop of Tide HE as well as Biz.  I set the machine on Sanitary with deep clean stain treat with steam and erally didn't expect much.  But I was gonna give it all I got.  When I pulled the sheet out of the washer, I didn't think I saw the stain, but I didn't want to take chances, so I line dried the sheet and folded it up after it dried.  I just put the sheet on the bed and there was absolutely no trace of the stain.  I have never had such results with any top loader in my 50 years of doing laundry.  I've always felt the European way of dealing with the myriad of stains is gradual heat from cool to extremely hot and oxygen bleach was far superior to the chemical laden approach  of American laundry with short agitation and probably just as long a soak as it takes to heat the wash water in a European fashion.  Eugene (Frigilux), your experiments have been reinforced with your outstanding laundry results in your Frigidaire with gradually heated hot water.  I never got this type of results with my Frigidaire frond loader WITHOUT a heater.  I'm not sure one could get this type of results with 40 gallons of cool water and heating it up to 160 degrees gradually with 5 doses of most American detergents and a top loader that would be equipped with a heater to heat those 40 gallons of water.  I still feel front loades are far superior than top loaders for extremely tough stains and doing laundry such that I don't have to think about it, it does it for me.  For average soil I use cycles which are 1 hour or less.  But 2 to 4 times a month I have loads which need this type of treatment and I never have to check for stains, I just throw laundry in the machine.  Unlike with my Lady Shredmore, I was inspecting every garment as it went into the machine and having to treat for stains.  It took a whole cycle time length or more to inspect the next load.  Laundry isn't nearly as tiring now.    I just load, press buttons for proper sequences of heating, temperature,  as well as tumble and spin speeds, and off I go to take care of other things. 

 

[mtn1584]

Speed Queen or bust

Let me clarify my earlier remarks, I would not support a Korean company like LG that does not have any quality control measures nor employs Americans such as myself.
Speed Queen is far superior in all ways and if this link doesn't make you want to buy a set NOW, instead of buying a pretty Korean made, plastic, over priced low warranty product, then I don't know what else will convince you.
Mike

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[washman]

Might be close to getting another SQ

sold mtn1584.

A coworker and a good friend has his fiance/girlfriend in Youngstown and her 7 year old LG FL is acting up again. From what he told me it is vibrating and making a pretty loud rumbling sound. 3x a repair man has been out to fix and whatever he does seems to work ok for a while then starts making noise again. I was not able to get the specifics, she's a VA nurse and very mechanically challenged.

Let the record henceforth show that before he told me she had it fixed 3x, I gently suggested try having the LG worked on and repaired before tossing it. Trying to be environmentally conscious here

I forgot the name of the appliance dealer in y-town but she was quoted $785 for the AWN 542. Free delivery and removal of the LG.

She's a fashionista and her LG set matches, purple I think? So I reminded my coworker that you get SQ in white, period.

Also in the interest of being sensitive to, ahem....global needs, I also suggested they look at the SQ FL machine. At any rate, I told them they would be making a good choice to get SQ, TL or FL.

 

[washer111]

Hmmm

Personally, I am not a fan of the "Bells, Whistles and Singing" approach that the Koreans seem to think is necessary with their products.

I also believe these "Sanitise," "Steam" and "Allergen" cycles are really just misnomers for some variation to a Cottons cycle.

The other day, I washed, waxed and polished one of the cars. It created a lot of dirty microfibre cloths.
Granted, they were pre-rinsed (lest I get the Miele full of polishing compounds), but were treated with a completely stock "Cottons 60º" on the Miele (Set to "European" function).
Cycle was supposed to be almost 3hrs, but was cut back 45mins at the start after load sensing.
I used about 2.5 scoops of "Omo" HE detergent; knowing the greasy polishing compound is pretty heavy stuff, and needs a good HOT wash and plenty of soap to get it out.

After the time had elapsed, perfectly clean cloths came out. Yes, the FL smelt a touch like polish, but I doubt even an SQ washer wouldn't after a load like that - full of water or not (Since you cannot really clean the outer tub).
The results of this load were quite spectacular; I wish I had taken photos of the results. Yes, about 4x longer than an SQ, but results were accomplished without much water or electricity.

Getting back to where I was; I feel that American FL's need to head towards a European stance in regards to cycles, where there is a simple selection to cater for everyday cloths, and slightly more speciality items (which have differing tumble patterns and water levels and spinning patterns).
I feel "Sanitise," "Steam" and "Allergen" can be replaced with a single "Cottons" cycle, with temperatures up to boiling, from tempered cold, and a selection for more water/extra rinse. Problem solved.

Anyone complaining about their heating and cooling costs might care to consider that Australians have to put up with weather hotter than most other countries in the West; with Summer temperatures reaching almost 50ºC (122ºF) on occasion.
Our house, with low ceilings, is fitted with a prehistoric A/C unit. We cannot keep the house cooler than 27ºC (80ºF) in the Summer, since the cost simply becomes too great - thankfully, our electricity is about 3 c/kWh cheaper now that our silly "Carbon Pricing" scheme; which does squat for the climate (Since business just pass on the costs, which therefore increases the costs of Australian goods, meaning even more jobs go offshore). was scrapped. Still, our summer powerbill is almost $1000, and the ones before and after still get to about $500-$600.*

*Before ANYONE suggests replacing the dinosaur ducted A/C unit, we've considered this. We dislike the idea of mini-splits, as they don't have the option of a cycling fan, reducing humidity control. They are also introduce a very perceptible draft that makes the room uncomfortable, unlike the central air, which is "draftless" cooling.
Even with the savings of a mini-split, (inverter) or new ducted unit, we're still looking at about 15-20 years to pay back the huge investment for either style of unit - Which is cost-prohibitive, especially when you consider we could move within the next 5 years! (Perhaps we should just suck it up, and stay more comfortable?)

But I digress:
My recommendation would be an SQ if you are time-strapped, and really want no-nonsense washing.
HOWEVER, as Bob highlighted, (and others), an FL can save large amounts of money and deliver acceptable or better results, provided people UNDERSTAND their machines have cycles that are tailored to meet "Government Mandates," and will those cycles are therefore effectively useless for everyday usage.
And I've said it before, and I'll say it again: There is ZERO need to run "Clean Washer" cycles, with special 'Cleaning products,' if people USED THEIR MACHINES CORRECTLY. This means:
~ Adequate detergent dosage to meet the soil level of the objects being washed
~ Adequate water temperature (This means using cycles that actually engage the heater; U.S. machines get this from "Sanitise," "Steam" and "Allergen" cycles/options)
~ Leaving the door ajar after use.
If people bothered to take care of their machines, and stopped believing that "Hot" = HOT on today's machines (Or stopped believing the Cold Water Washing hype), there wouldn't be a need for this. If you live in an area with hard water, using Vinegar as a fabric softener or citric acid in loads of "Shop Rags" should help alleviate the problem.

 

[combo52]

And The Answer Is, A Speed Queen Front Load Washer

As a self respecting human being I try hard to not buy Non-Union built items, especially when they come from countries that do not give a damn about diversity, human rights etc.

If you do not want to buy a SQ FL washer there are many good Union built washers coming out of Ohio from Whirlpool that will easily work as well as a LG.

 

[frigilux]

That's a very good point, John, and one that I don't always think about, but should.

I believe these washers are made in the USA (though I don't know which plants are unionized): GE front-loaders; Maytag Maxima line of front-loaders; Whirlpool Cabrio and front-loaders; Speed Queen, of course.  

A number of Frigidaire appliances are made here, as well: All their freezers are made in St. Cloud, MN. Gas and induction cooktops are made somewhere in the South, but I don't know that their ranges are made here. 

It's a labyrinth: Various appliances within a brand can be made in three or four different places around the world.  Even if they're assembled here, many of the parts come from other areas of the globe---but that's a given, these days. 

If there's time this weekend, I should do some Googling to find out what's made where. It would be useful to post a list somewhere at AW for people to reference when purchasing new kitchen or laundry appliances.

A new Lennox furnace is being installed at my house today. Wonder where it was made?

 

[glenfieldmathk1]

Quote: "Hate to burst your bubble", Laundromat

Quote: "They can't easily wash tents,shoes,backpacks,sleeping bags,area rugs,queen or king size down comforters,pillows or stuffed toys like my LGs do easily and with awesome results." People don't wash these things normally. They are washed like once a year, to choose a machine based on these items being washed, is silly. This is what manufacturers do to make you fall into their traps of buying their products, by claiming, oh it can wash sports shoes or there's a dedicated sleeping bag wash etc. Nonsense. Ok some speciality cycles, like a Whitest whites, or a Dark colours, or a sports, duvet etc can come in handy, but generally they only modify the cycle slightly, a bit like customisable options.
Quote: "If the life expectancy is so low,how the hell has their rating in both washers and dryers been the best overall and had the fewest repairs of ANY other brand???" I guess the Exploding Lg's isn't included in this?

I found your response rather rude if I'm honest. You may well own 3, but doesn't mean they're top class.

Not being Harsh to LG btw, they can be OK. Not one i'd choose personally though.

(Sorry usually avoid replying to posts from outside the Uk, I just read, but I had to step in at that reply).
Generally I hear the SQ Quality is the best, we had one in our Villa in Florida that we visited last year, and it worked very well (much better than our previous visits Whirlpool in 2009 [Before the days of water saving]).
Wish you all the best
Mat.

 

[frigilux]

Bob--- I've been using a "profile wash" for heavily-stained whites for 4+ years with excellent results. Never a stain remaining---and you've seen how brutal my stained loads are. Far worse than the test load Consumer Reports uses. The cycle begins with water at about 100 degrees and heats to 150. Each type of stain is washed in the temp considered ideal for complete removal. Glad to hear you found similar results!

As I've mentioned, I like to launder bed linens and bath towels using the Steam option, which on the Frigidaire means there's a 20-minute first rinse in heated/hot water and a second rinse in warm. Everything emerges steamy-warm at the end of the cycle without using extra water and only a little more electricity.[this post was last edited: 10/8/2014-12:21]

 

[glenfieldmathk1]

Friglux I agree.
My Hotpoint washer's Whites cycle, heats in stages, from cold to 60C/140F, each heating stage wioth a different agitation/action. Its then followed by a 1hr Hold at 60c/140F with rather intensive rhythm to remove the stains that are left, and get whites their whitest.
This stage /stepped heating seems to keep the detergent active too. I've found a immediate heated start would sometimes destroy the detergent early in the cycle?

 

[washman]

"If you do not want to buy a SQ FL washer there are many good Union built washers coming out of Ohio from Whirlpool that will easily work as well as a LG."

Not to mention supporting American jobs. Something ALL of use can try a bit harder to do, whether it be a TL or FL machine.

 

[frigilux]

Not to pull the thread completely off-topic, but since we're on the subject of assembled-in-America/American jobs, I'm happy to report my new Lennox furnace is made in Marshalltown, Iowa, at a 996,000 square foot factory employing 1200 people.

It's being installed by two men I know personally, and it was purchased at a local business whose owner I know personally. Doesn't get much more local than that! It wasn't the lowest bid, by far, but I also know that if the furnace fails in the dead of winter, I'll have a serviceman at my house very quickly. That alone buys a lot of peace of mind. Local businesses in very small towns tend to work hard to keep their customer base happy. They know it takes only a few unhappy customers complaining about bad service in the coffee shop to decimate their business.

Come to think of it...my last two appliance purchases were also made here: GE dishwasher and the Speed Queen washer.

 

[washman]

Way to go Frig!

Now what about the PODS?

 

[appnut]

Not to mention supporting American jobs.

that influenced my Duet WFW97 choice when I bought it November 2013. 

 

[frigilux]

Ben, I'm very happy to report my beloved Tide pods are made in the good ol' USA!

 

[washman]

Whenever I see a detergent pod, I always think of Frig first, second, and last.

 

[mielewasherman]

I have a question! are the Speed Queen front loaders any good?
Ive never liked LG , or Samsung washers.