blackstone
Well-known member
So-called benefits of the tariff on imported washing machines:
Washer Tariffs: Creating an $800,000+ American Job, and Higher Dryer Prices
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This is exactly what happens when the government gets involved with anything. The Koreans are making a superior product, and left alone they would put the American companies out of business or at least force them to make a better product.
lotsosudz
Well-known member
Thia Makes me mad!!!!!
I hope I don't offend too many people, but Monsignor Rump (not misspelled) as usual, @%&$! the American People. I think he thinks Washers and Dryers, are like a certain wall. We the consumers take it in the usual location, While big corporations get off scott free! Didn't mean to get political, and again I hope I didn't offend people, but this article hit me wrong. He needs to go!!!!!
Signed a Angry Citizen, and Consumer,
David
I hope I don't offend too many people, but Monsignor Rump (not misspelled) as usual, @%&$! the American People. I think he thinks Washers and Dryers, are like a certain wall. We the consumers take it in the usual location, While big corporations get off scott free! Didn't mean to get political, and again I hope I didn't offend people, but this article hit me wrong. He needs to go!!!!!
Signed a Angry Citizen, and Consumer,
David
Looking at what caused the tariff would be helpful. Korean companies were dumping product that was below the cost of production. This is unfair to domestic producers. When governments artificially support products by keeping cost of production artificially low, that gives an unfair advantage.
In this instance it backfired. LG and Samsung are building us based plants. The domestic producers took the opportunity to jack up prices and not really innovate.
I’m a Miele fan and since their on the top end of the price spectrum anyway the tariff doesn’t really matter. I doubt Miele ships enough units in the us to even hit the tariff.
I wouldn’t lay it all on trump. You can be mad, but I would also blame the domestic producers. Instead of innovating to capture market share they just jacked up prices to capture short term gains.
In this instance it backfired. LG and Samsung are building us based plants. The domestic producers took the opportunity to jack up prices and not really innovate.
I’m a Miele fan and since their on the top end of the price spectrum anyway the tariff doesn’t really matter. I doubt Miele ships enough units in the us to even hit the tariff.
I wouldn’t lay it all on trump. You can be mad, but I would also blame the domestic producers. Instead of innovating to capture market share they just jacked up prices to capture short term gains.
joeypete
Well-known member
I agree with Moon1234 on this. I think the tariffs are stupid honestly but it does raise the question of how did we end up in this situation? In typical corporate America fashion, companies care more about their shareholders than they do about the people buying their products.
I've loved WP over the years and I grew up with their washers and dyers (or Kenmore equivalents) and they have produced some really good products. But then you change things, to, of course, make more money. Features change...build quality changes and you now have a bunch of new, albeit, crappy products. You can blame the gov't energy regulations all you want for making this happen, but bottom line is, it's up to the manufacturer to come out with a product that will work with that. Car companies have adapted with higher mileage requirements and have done a great job I have to say. WP in particular has really failed IMO in adapting to these new regulations. When I bought my condo in 2014 their selection of washers were not only confusing, but absolutely garbage in terms of features. GE managed to make their washers to adapt with very little difference in how they worked. So unfortunately I have to blame WP for their own issues. Their more recent selections are definitely better but they lost a lot of customers in the interim.
I've loved WP over the years and I grew up with their washers and dyers (or Kenmore equivalents) and they have produced some really good products. But then you change things, to, of course, make more money. Features change...build quality changes and you now have a bunch of new, albeit, crappy products. You can blame the gov't energy regulations all you want for making this happen, but bottom line is, it's up to the manufacturer to come out with a product that will work with that. Car companies have adapted with higher mileage requirements and have done a great job I have to say. WP in particular has really failed IMO in adapting to these new regulations. When I bought my condo in 2014 their selection of washers were not only confusing, but absolutely garbage in terms of features. GE managed to make their washers to adapt with very little difference in how they worked. So unfortunately I have to blame WP for their own issues. Their more recent selections are definitely better but they lost a lot of customers in the interim.
vacerator
Well-known member
Are prices on
Whirlpool, GE, or Canadian or US assembled Electrolux laundry or white goods lower?
I've not noticed that. LG washers have had quality issues as well as the others.
However, back in the 80's, when many more began buying Japanese cars for example, sighting better quality, it did force the big 3 to make better cars.
Then when a recession loomed in 1982, the Yen against our dollar fell, causing Japanese products to climb in cost and thus prices. So by 1984-85, once US built cars were becoming "world class" so to speak, they began selling better. Some buyers felt it worth more to spend the extra on a car that wouldn't fall apart, but I noticed Toyota's in the 70's that rusted as fast as American cars.
Some said the Japanese were allowed to "dump" inexpensive cars here on our market, but that began with Volkswagen in the late 50's as well.
There was the oil embargo, and a trend for smaller lighter cars. Japanese steel was also cheaper to buy.
I also know that the big 3 were also buying Japanese steel, and other parts from Japan as far back as the 70's, and it rusted quickly. My uncle was quality control at Ford engine division, and went to every engine plant. Cleveland, Lima, Windsor, and even Mexico where he found problems with Nippon source valve train parts.
When he brought it to management attention, before they would stop an assy. line, they had him get a rep. there from the supplier, who then denied any faulty products. So do the math. Some things are circumstantial, some manipulated.
Sometimes Govt. is to blame, but sometimes that policy is owned and paid for by companies also.
Whirlpool, GE, or Canadian or US assembled Electrolux laundry or white goods lower?
I've not noticed that. LG washers have had quality issues as well as the others.
However, back in the 80's, when many more began buying Japanese cars for example, sighting better quality, it did force the big 3 to make better cars.
Then when a recession loomed in 1982, the Yen against our dollar fell, causing Japanese products to climb in cost and thus prices. So by 1984-85, once US built cars were becoming "world class" so to speak, they began selling better. Some buyers felt it worth more to spend the extra on a car that wouldn't fall apart, but I noticed Toyota's in the 70's that rusted as fast as American cars.
Some said the Japanese were allowed to "dump" inexpensive cars here on our market, but that began with Volkswagen in the late 50's as well.
There was the oil embargo, and a trend for smaller lighter cars. Japanese steel was also cheaper to buy.
I also know that the big 3 were also buying Japanese steel, and other parts from Japan as far back as the 70's, and it rusted quickly. My uncle was quality control at Ford engine division, and went to every engine plant. Cleveland, Lima, Windsor, and even Mexico where he found problems with Nippon source valve train parts.
When he brought it to management attention, before they would stop an assy. line, they had him get a rep. there from the supplier, who then denied any faulty products. So do the math. Some things are circumstantial, some manipulated.
Sometimes Govt. is to blame, but sometimes that policy is owned and paid for by companies also.
As bad as the tariffs are, I think the crux of the issue is that other companies from other countries will always have an advantage over American businesses.
1. Foreign companies always have the backing of their home country. Be it financial support, or logistics support etc. They have a helping hand. So the foreign companies can almost always get a leg up on our companies because they don’t need to make a profit until they gain hold in the US market. Same for when they build their plants here. They can take a large loss on those parts and the labor just to hold s place on our market. Then once they put our companies out of business, they own our market.
It’s militant capitalism at our expense. And we’re terrible at fighting it.
2. American companies since the MBA wave really are no longer in business to make make products and win over customers. At least not entirely. Modern managements have turned to making the most money for themselves and shareholders. Played to the quarterly report.
American companies do not plan long term anymore. Like at all.
None I’ve worked at anyway.
Only foreign companies plan in a long term, methodical fashion.
That and then ideological revulsion America has to supporting its businesses for the “right” reasons, makes us inherently non-competitive.
3. Because foreign companies usually take their honor as bannermen of their nation seriously, they usually strive to be best in class and make good products for their customers.
American companies will really only do that if they’re regulated to do so.
Quality American products are subservient to profits first. IF they ca do both, great.
But quality, loyalty to employee stakeholders, and customer satisfaction is ONLY a priority to American companies if they can profit from it. If not, then the cutting and stripping begins.
1. Foreign companies always have the backing of their home country. Be it financial support, or logistics support etc. They have a helping hand. So the foreign companies can almost always get a leg up on our companies because they don’t need to make a profit until they gain hold in the US market. Same for when they build their plants here. They can take a large loss on those parts and the labor just to hold s place on our market. Then once they put our companies out of business, they own our market.
It’s militant capitalism at our expense. And we’re terrible at fighting it.
2. American companies since the MBA wave really are no longer in business to make make products and win over customers. At least not entirely. Modern managements have turned to making the most money for themselves and shareholders. Played to the quarterly report.
American companies do not plan long term anymore. Like at all.
None I’ve worked at anyway.
Only foreign companies plan in a long term, methodical fashion.
That and then ideological revulsion America has to supporting its businesses for the “right” reasons, makes us inherently non-competitive.
3. Because foreign companies usually take their honor as bannermen of their nation seriously, they usually strive to be best in class and make good products for their customers.
American companies will really only do that if they’re regulated to do so.
Quality American products are subservient to profits first. IF they ca do both, great.
But quality, loyalty to employee stakeholders, and customer satisfaction is ONLY a priority to American companies if they can profit from it. If not, then the cutting and stripping begins.
arbilab
Well-known member
Good summary John.
Engineer at Dell when the MBA iceberg hit it. Company had gone from a hobby to best-in-class supplier and wallstreet darling on the basis of solid product and customer experience focus. Dell himself was only the financier, with daddy's money and Intel's 'pay us when you sell it' terms. A real-world guy, Mort Topfer was running it but took his bazillions to the Caribbean. Dell didn't know what to do besides hire a consultant--Bain.
Immediately, the product and customer were relegated to a leaky lifeboat and the entire focus became BPI, 'business process improvement'. Bain had told him 'fuggit, just buy ads to replace pissedoff customers' and offshore support to unintelligibles the customer would prefer a root canal over calling.
What I saw of the MBAs, an attitude of 'we already know anything worth knowing'. Even when calculated value was presented in their own Excel/Powerpoint language, their eyes rolled back in their heads wondering, "Did I leave the iron on?" Absolute zero real-world grasp, or interest therein. And these were 'good ones', hired at the top of Dell's prosperity from Harvard/Yale.
These days, MBAs and lawyers is 95% of what's left of Dell. While all the sales, support and engineering people who made him rich are working 38 hours at the counter in Taco Bell.
Engineer at Dell when the MBA iceberg hit it. Company had gone from a hobby to best-in-class supplier and wallstreet darling on the basis of solid product and customer experience focus. Dell himself was only the financier, with daddy's money and Intel's 'pay us when you sell it' terms. A real-world guy, Mort Topfer was running it but took his bazillions to the Caribbean. Dell didn't know what to do besides hire a consultant--Bain.
Immediately, the product and customer were relegated to a leaky lifeboat and the entire focus became BPI, 'business process improvement'. Bain had told him 'fuggit, just buy ads to replace pissedoff customers' and offshore support to unintelligibles the customer would prefer a root canal over calling.
What I saw of the MBAs, an attitude of 'we already know anything worth knowing'. Even when calculated value was presented in their own Excel/Powerpoint language, their eyes rolled back in their heads wondering, "Did I leave the iron on?" Absolute zero real-world grasp, or interest therein. And these were 'good ones', hired at the top of Dell's prosperity from Harvard/Yale.
These days, MBAs and lawyers is 95% of what's left of Dell. While all the sales, support and engineering people who made him rich are working 38 hours at the counter in Taco Bell.
vacerator
Well-known member
Uh uh,
Bain capital is the Romney concern. Taco Bell may be a bit of a stretch, but I get it. I even applied for those types of jobs back in 2008. Either too old, or over qualified. Peers were telling me to move south, where the jobs are, but try selling a home you've owned for 13 years, and almost own outright in a market with devalued real estate prices below what you bought in at. Many just walked away if they were
under water in a mortgage, leaving the banks, etc. on the hook. Not all of those defaults were by those whom over borrowed more than they could handle. Many were managing fine until they lost their jobs. I think we were just lucky. I've always been fiscally conservative and tried to budget and save wisely.
The rich don't care about the working class or what is left of the middle class, which isn't much. They simply go bankrupt, or take losses, then re-buy shares in companies back at the bottom share values.
Growing up, middle class here was you could afford a nice modest home large enough for a family of at least 6, save for the kids college, take vacations, buy a boat, cottage, and or pool, and still save to retire well, even often one one income. Sure, that has all changed, likely for the duration. If you owned shares of say Sears & Roebuck stock, it used to climb to a point, then split, doubling your shares if you kept it. Once it went up even more, you made even more. Their employees also had the good profit sharing in that cycle.
Back then China, and the soviet union were nearly all starving. Talk about failed policies, and economic systems. If you don't pay people, they don't buy anything. Today it's Venezuela, while Most Asian nations are capitalistic like Viet Nam, and China, or nearly so.
We'll be gone by the time a catastrophic collapse hits, or I hope so, but I'm concerned for the millenials, and their kids. We have grand kids also.
Bain capital is the Romney concern. Taco Bell may be a bit of a stretch, but I get it. I even applied for those types of jobs back in 2008. Either too old, or over qualified. Peers were telling me to move south, where the jobs are, but try selling a home you've owned for 13 years, and almost own outright in a market with devalued real estate prices below what you bought in at. Many just walked away if they were
under water in a mortgage, leaving the banks, etc. on the hook. Not all of those defaults were by those whom over borrowed more than they could handle. Many were managing fine until they lost their jobs. I think we were just lucky. I've always been fiscally conservative and tried to budget and save wisely.
The rich don't care about the working class or what is left of the middle class, which isn't much. They simply go bankrupt, or take losses, then re-buy shares in companies back at the bottom share values.
Growing up, middle class here was you could afford a nice modest home large enough for a family of at least 6, save for the kids college, take vacations, buy a boat, cottage, and or pool, and still save to retire well, even often one one income. Sure, that has all changed, likely for the duration. If you owned shares of say Sears & Roebuck stock, it used to climb to a point, then split, doubling your shares if you kept it. Once it went up even more, you made even more. Their employees also had the good profit sharing in that cycle.
Back then China, and the soviet union were nearly all starving. Talk about failed policies, and economic systems. If you don't pay people, they don't buy anything. Today it's Venezuela, while Most Asian nations are capitalistic like Viet Nam, and China, or nearly so.
We'll be gone by the time a catastrophic collapse hits, or I hope so, but I'm concerned for the millenials, and their kids. We have grand kids also.
arbilab
Well-known member
El Xeroxo
Forced to relinquish my home, which pritmuch sucked the spirit out of me. Some mitigation, walked away with 2x the DP after only 8yrs; expanding market and overpaid principal. Small consolation, landing with a thud, in an apartment. Even as a drummer in Hawaii, I rented houses.
Think that's bad, yotta see where I am now that the equity is spent. But nevermind, cuz many have it much worse. I'm essentially in the morgue queue so it matters even less. What about the intervening generations? I've apologized to several I got to know well and were quite aware, for the dust and splinters they inherited. Small consolation.
Kinda like what's left of Rome, France, Spain, Portugal, England, all those empire types. But skuze me, we were talking about dryers.
Forced to relinquish my home, which pritmuch sucked the spirit out of me. Some mitigation, walked away with 2x the DP after only 8yrs; expanding market and overpaid principal. Small consolation, landing with a thud, in an apartment. Even as a drummer in Hawaii, I rented houses.
Think that's bad, yotta see where I am now that the equity is spent. But nevermind, cuz many have it much worse. I'm essentially in the morgue queue so it matters even less. What about the intervening generations? I've apologized to several I got to know well and were quite aware, for the dust and splinters they inherited. Small consolation.
Kinda like what's left of Rome, France, Spain, Portugal, England, all those empire types. But skuze me, we were talking about dryers.
vacerator
Well-known member
Yes, dryers, and
what comes out in the wash of truth so to say. Being from Texas, I'm sure you recall Enron as well.
what comes out in the wash of truth so to say. Being from Texas, I'm sure you recall Enron as well.
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