Washers with timed fill

[Chetlaham]

Rinse fill increment

Don't GE FF also have this? When the machine starts filling for rinse the timer runs for another 2 minutes? And if the pressure switch is satisfied you have to wait for the remaining time elapse?

 

[Chetlaham]

Anyone know

What washer this diagram belongs to? I see no pressure switch, so I am assuming timed fill?

 

[combo52]

Replay # 31 Norge

 

Again, all WP and WP built KM automatic washers had metered fill, the ONLY machines that did not have a water level sensing system, also did NOT have an inlet valve and these were filled with a hose and were semi-automatic machines.

 

John L.

 

[Chetlaham]

I owe you now!

Norge- Thanks John! I never would have guessed that one. These are solid or perforated tubs? Id hope solid, perforated could overflow easily.

 

[blackstone]

Blackstone

Picture of the stainless tub on Blackstone models 250 and 350, from the 1950s. These machines were timed-fill.

There are drain holes in the bottom of the tub, through which water could drain when the tub was lifted up from the disk. At the end of the wash cycle, the tub would lift; some water would drain through these holes; and then the tub would start spinning. When spinning, the water would climb over the top, passing through the channels around the perimeter of the tub.

I believe the time for filling was 4 minutes. Since these machines had mechanical timers, you could move the dial in either direction for more or less filling time.

 

[kenwashesmonday]

We have a whopping 150 pounds of water pressure in my neighborhood.  I had to press the old A200 timed-fill Maytag Highlander into service a while back while I had the A606 apart, and had no problems with it overfilling.  The water inlet is well designed to meter the flow over a wide range of water pressure.

 

[Chetlaham]

150

No pressure regulator on the main incomer? Every home I've lived in had on for that reason. 50-75psig is optimal.

 

[Chetlaham]

A200

How long is the timed fill period?

 

[kenwashesmonday]

I don't remember how long it took to fill, but I know it took it's time compared to my metered-fill A606.

 

Yes the water pressure is too high, but i rent, and it sure is great for blasting out the rain gutters.

 

[tomturbomatic]

Maytag Time Fill

There are flow restrictors in the body of the fill valve on both the hot and cold side. The restrictors are in the non-time fill machines too, because they use the same valves.

 

[kenwashesmonday]

I wish I had a picture of it, but the water inlet on the early 1960s timed-fill Highlander sort of squirts water onto a funnel, and from there it runs into the tub. It's nothing like the common water injector on the machines with a pressure switch. To clarify, this restriction happens after the solenoid valve.

 

[combo52]

Fill air gap

MT used the same fill air gap on all their automatic washers during any given time period.

 

[kenwashesmonday]

They why don't I have anything like that on my 1972 A606? My A606 has the common "water injector" system, familiar to many of us. The A200 Highlander shoots a stream of restricted water through thin air into a funnel from which it falls into the tub. It will dig the Highlander out of the garage and peel it apart to take a picture this weekend if necessary, that is, unless anyone else has a picture they could share to save me the trouble.

Edit:

Yes, I found something to save me the trouble. See the picture in Post# 336949 in the thread linked below:

http://www.automaticwasher.org/cgi-bin/TD/TD-VIEWTHREAD.cgi?21311

 

[combo52]

Fill Air-Gaps

Hi Ken, there is nothing special about the fill air-gap on your A200, ALL MTs used this system from 1956-1965, and they had lots of problems with minerals building up on the copper spout and causing water to miss the funnel and causing leaks.  Then MT came out with the other type of FAG that you mentioned and they still had lots of problems with leaks.

 

Funny that WP never had all these problems with the FAGs on their machines.

 

John L.

 

[kenwashesmonday]

Ah, learn something every day. Thank you for the clarification.

 

[Chetlaham]

I got bored lol

Yes I know- the pen kept dying- had to get a new one eventually.

 

[tomturbomatic]

The flow restrictors are molded things shaped like thick washers that slide into channels in front of the hot and cold water inlets inside the valve body. Take one apart sometime and you will see what I am talking about. The fill inlet is way too late to be restricting the water flow; like grabbing the front of your pants when your bladder sphincter gives way.

 

[combo52]

Flow Control Washers

Are always in the outlet of the inlet valve, there are sometimes flow control washers in the inlet ports to adjust the Hot-Cold ratio but these will not work to control flow for a timed fill machine because if the machine was set to warm the machine would fill too fast.

John L.

 

[tomturbomatic]

Yes, they fill the at the same rate no matter what temperature is selected.

 

[Chetlaham]

Best timed fill

Is one with a pressure switch or float. If I was a manufacture would never rely solely on the timer for a variety of reasons. For the same reasons DW have a float despite most being timed fill.

In terms of flow restriction I'm more leaning toward John on this one, I would imagine the restrictor right at the edge of the water valve then the hose inlet. Reason being that warm would fill 2x as fast overflowing the washer.

 

[Chetlaham]

As John already stated btw, failed to mention that

 

[Unimatic1140]

There was no Whirlpool/Kenmore automatic washer made with a time fill system, only Maytag had it in a perforated tub model and that was very brief. Just because it said fill on the dial didn't mean it was a time fill machine. Whirlpool/Kenmore did that quite often on their frog-eye models.

Yes in order to control the flow of water properly it has to be done after the valve and before the fill flume. Turning the pressure down at the inlet hoses generally wont be consistent.

I received this question in an email today that I will answer here...

Do you know which washers (service manuals) in the Ephemera have a timed fill? Here is a good list, not all have service manuals in the library, but most do...

ABC-O-Matic
AMC
Apex
Blackstone before 1959
Corondao
Frigidaire before 1966
Hamilton before 1960
Hotpoint before 1964
Kelvinator before 1967
Launderall
Norge before 1960
Speed Queen until approx 1970
Wizard

 

[Chetlaham]

Thank you Robert, you rock!

 

[cornutt]

Blackstone

Wasn't that the one where the timer acts mechanically on the valve, and if power goes off during the fill, the valve does not close? I recall there was a thread about that a while ago.

 

[tomturbomatic]

Yes. Consumer Reports noted that in the ratings of the Blackstones.

 

[daveamkrayoguy]

Well, thank you for the insights and info on Whirlpool and Kenmore washers that to my impression, were timed-fill, but turned out to have an entirely different water-filling system, as they were definitely not metered-fill (still no Water Level knob on those, and relegated to the bottom-most-level in their line-ups)...

-- Dave

 

[DADoES]

 
Dave, WP/KM models without a water level selector on the panel still had a float (ancient models) or pressure switch hidden in the console ... but it's non-adjustable, provides only a full-fill level.  Think of a KM or WP coin-op machine, same deal.

 

[blackstone]

Yes, the Blackstones would continue to fill if the electricity were unplugged. The water would continue to drain from the outer tub, since the drain hose was at the bottom of the cabinet, not requiring the pump to drain the water.

Actually, we commonly unplugged the machine when it was filling, so we could adjust the spray into the tub without having a spinning tub.

Never heard of a flooding disaster due to loss of electricity.

 

[daveamkrayoguy]

Interesting how today's POD contains those Kenmores w/ that pressure-fill... Don't a couple of them or so at least have?

-- Dave

 

[Chetlaham]

POD

Waahhh, I missed it! Anyone have a pic or link?