Washing machine advice - I'm looking for a reliable washer

[brisnat81]

We’ve had three dds in the family and the neutral drain was intermittent after the first couple of years and other than hearing the different notes, it never caused an issue. The oldest made it out to 14 years when it needed a new clutch and was scrapped and the youngest was 9 when it was sold and replaced with a FL machine. Both machines only had agitator dogs in that lifespan.

Not neutral draining has no impact on the longevity of the machine.

 

[keith]

Trading one broken machine for another

So what I gather from this is just about all DD machines end up with Neutral drain issues and you roll the dice on if you’ll be like me with other issues that arise. But we ignore the broken .

I’m sorry but I Can’t recommend a machine and say ‘yeah I know your SQ is broken and can be fixed to stay fixed with updated parts and a manufacturer bulletin to remedy the issue under warranty, but let’s praise a machine that breaks, can’t be made to stay fixed, and we’ll just say it doesn’t matter if it’s broken because they all do it and WP never got it to work right reliably’

Nope, can’t go for that. I guess my DD experience wasn’t so rare after all. They’re just not that reliable.

Keith

 

[DADoES]

 
How many DDs do you guys suppose are running out in the wild with malfunctioning neutral drain of which the users are blissfully unaware ... because it's not a fatal thing?

Spin-drain is often touted as superior to neutral-drain (Speed Queen! Maytag!) ... so be happy when DD neutral-drain fails because one then doesn't need to manually trick the machine into spin-drain, yes?

 

[coldspot66]

Keith,
Give it a rest!

 

[keith]

Just offering a counterpoint.

As I said in my first post, Just offering a counterpoint, apparently it flustered people.

They hypocrisy of suggesting a machine with known faults then defending that machine when I pointed out the faults by saying “no one cares” isn’t answering the OP’s question, which is why she came here in the first place. You all suggested a knowingly flawed design that whirlpool couldn’t get to work right.

Judging by the upvotes on my posts I’m guessing others have had similar experiences and are too afraid to bring them up cause they’re told to “give it a rest”.

All the best of luck to the OP, I was just trying to help express a counterpoint to allow them to make an informed decision, which is why they ended up here.

Resting,
Keith

 

[combo52]

Reply #33

Is total BS, SQ has not changed their quest for building the best and most reliable [ and easiest to repair ] laundry appliances available anywhere.

 

As a factory servicer servicing an area with over 50,000 SQs sold in the last decade we are only doing 3-6 service calls a month.

 

We have never even seen a TL washer with the balance ring problem, and it is ridiculous to call this washer a lemon that has had one failure in 3-4 years that is being fixed free and did not even put it out of service.

 

Its BS like this that makes me not even want to contribute to AW any longer, lets all just stick to the facts and stop making S..t up.

 

John L.

 

[keith]

To John’s point

Pic of 90’s direct drive whirlpool (Pic1) VS 2018 Speed Queen (pic 2).

 

[rp2813]

John, thanks for setting the record straight about Alliance/SQ.  The post further up is the first I've ever read about SQ quality taking a nosedive after 2017, but maybe that was a reference to the ill-conceived and laughable Swirl-O-Matic models.

 

I'm not ashamed to admit that I've never been a fan of WP-sourced DD machines.  My experience with them is limited for sure, but other than a friend's older KitchenAid, the DD machines I've known and/or used were very loud (and I'm stating this as someone who grew up with an ear-splitting Snorge), seemed beyond flimsy when compared to a BD, and along with that, determined to frenetically wrench themselves to an early death.  No thanks. 

 

Maybe this is why so many here praise DD machines as being so easy to work on -- because it's a necessary aspect of owning a WP-sourced DD.  I guess I'm just old school about TL machines, and the closest thing to that on the market today is a Speed Queen.

 

[maytag85]

The direct drive washers are definitely easier to work on but as mentioned they need to be repaired every so often. If Whirlpool simply changed the outer tub from metal to plastic on their belt drive washers, it would have increased the lifespan since the outer tub couldn’t rust out and beefing up the transmission would have helped as well.

 

[qsd-dan]

The TC series uses the same running gear as the previous AWN 432/542 models that were discontinued in 2017. The problem is that options and flexibility were severely restricted in the redesign. I'm guessing Speed Queen was forced to do this in order to skate around efficiency mandates. The AWN542 was the last well optioned, truly flexible Speed Queen washer where the user had complete unrestricted control of the machine.

 

[DADoES]

 
I repeatedly fail to understand how eliminating a full-range choice of water levels enhances efficiency.

 

[keith]

Water level selection

DADOES: I don’t understand it either, Weirdest thing is my TR has a full water level selection. TC doesn’t have full water level control, but has a more conventional wash action, the TR has full water level selection but the different wash action everyone who hasn’t used it in person claims doesn’t work (it does work, but people who just watch YouTube videos and read certain biased magazines seem to think it doesn’t, but I digress).

 

[maytag85]

The only “efficiency” I care about is something the washes and rinses well, uses plenty of water and doesn’t take hours to get a load of laundry done (time REALLY is the most limited resource if you think about it) and overall has satisfactory results. More resources have been consumed since most of those “energy saving” washers have gone off to the scrap heap and not many people realize how much energy is involved in the steel processing/making process and it takes quite a bit of energy to fuel a steel furnace than it is to power appliances that are built to last for many years that will provide satisfactory results.

 

[qsd-dan]

 

I repeatedly fail to understand how eliminating a full-range choice of water levels enhances efficiency.

So do I, but quite sometime ago I came across a YouTube clip where one of the spokesmen for the company claimed changes were made to the TC series in order to skate around regulations.....after they received extreme hatefest from both consumers and reviewers for discontinuing that platform.

A TR7 control panel would have been a nice option with better flexibility. Label it a TC7.

 

[panthera]

Opinions, like a certain body party - everyone has one

Anyone defending 2018 Speed Queen Top Loaders is ignoring hard facts. Even Speed Queen - after losing many dealers and firing some of their best dealers for telling them the truth - finally backed down and 'enhanced' their design.

Nobody is arguing that vintage Speed Queen was good stuff. Goodness, we love our 1969 solid tub. Next to a Thumper (and allowing for it being avocado green) it's the best cleaning automatic washer I have ever used.

 

As to Whirlpool - and let's not forget that I really don't like that company one bit and, lo, the many exchanges fraught with sound and fury signifying nothing when I told y'all they'd do the dirty to Maytag, which they did before the ink was dry on the contracts (still waiting for apologies from some of the older ladies) - their puck driven DD series would not still be offered, with warranties, in droves by used appliance dealers all over North America if they weren't reliable. 

They wouldn't still be washing in so many apartment basements.

Nearly all puck-driven DD Whirlpool problems were and are inexpensively fixable. Put in a commercial coupler and a commercial clutch and you've fixed the two intentional built-to-fail points, meant to fail after the washer is sufficiently along in years that a 'fix' is weighed against buying a new one.

 

Yes, I agree the neutral drain design has it's problems and having personally seen two versions of it implemented in transmissions, I don't understand why people say there was only ever one. Never mind - we're talking about something which may or may not arise after many, many years and may, in some cases, cause problems.

 

Speed Queen after 2017 was building trash. CU, which knee-jerk praises everything from KitchenAid and, up-till-then, Speed Queen as the best of the best of the very, very best gave them the worst rating for washing  of any top loader in the entire history of the magazine. Worse than a WCI 'Frigidaire' with the Franklin transmission.

 

There are many YouTube videos and articles and quite lengthy software discussions on why they are awful.

 

John, I have tremendous respect for your knowledge. You help me often and I appreciate it.

I suspect, were we to be asked the day of the week by a passerby, we would find it hard to agree - even with a calendar right in front of us.

 

 

[maytag85]

To be honest, I still don’t like the TR series since it uses a absurd amount of water and doesn’t provide satisfactory results and in Eugene’s videos, it didn’t even wash all that well nor rinsed well. All of these ridiculous energy regulations have ruined appliances (mainly washers and dishwashers) and that’s why things don’t function like they are supposed to anymore all thanks to the ridiculous regulations that solve one problem and create many more in it’s place and more water has gone down the drain with those crappy TR models that with the Speed Queen models that preceded it.

 

[DADoES]

 
<blockquote>Panthera: Yes, I agree the neutral drain design has it's problems and having personally seen two versions of it implemented in transmissions, I don't understand why people say there was only ever one.</blockquote> The only revision of which I'm aware on neutral drain component design is slightly smaller/shorter vs. larger/longer threads on the pawl stud, and a difference to match on the rack retainer and threading of the pawl stud mounting hole on the main drive gear.  All the rest of the parts and functioning are exactly the same.  Have you run across more substantial differences?

Pics of the dastardly kit stuff.  It includes both studs and rack retainers to match the main drive gear in the transmission being serviced.

Smaller pawl stud (original) = specimen with red marker-color ... smaller diameter threads and and slightly longer. Matching rack retainer has no ID holes, and the pawl stud mounting hole is slightly smaller.

Larger pawl stud (revised) = specimen with blue marker-color ... larger diameter and slightly shorter threads.  Matching rack retainer has two ID holes punched in it, and the pawl stud mounting hole is slightly larger to fit over the larger stud threads.

 

[panthera]

Glenn, that's the difference

Those pawls.
Thanks for the clear photos.

 

[DADoES]

 
Pic 1:  The [spin] pawl (A) is not changed on the revision, there's just the one in the kit.  The screw-in shoulder stud (B) on which it sits is different, there are two in the kit.

Pic 2:  Spin-drain transmissions have a spin pawl (25) and shoulder stud (33).  The pawl is what drives the spin gear (23).  There's no spin gear cam, trip lever, or latch. They have a spin gear spring (24) but it doesn't function for delay purposes.  They have a rack retainer (26) but it's different.  The rack is 27, it drives the agitator shaft for oscillation.  The actuator (28) shifts the agitator shaft in/out of drive via a mechanism that isn't shown.  The main drive gear is 29

The instruction sheet says that the spin gear is not included in the Neutral Drain Pack kit ... but it is.

 

[vacerator]

What are the

plastic pieces, etc. which our neighbor found under their vintage Kenmore 80 series direct drive washer when it quit spinning last week? Clutch parts?
They diidn't consult me before going out and buying a new LG top loader pair with turbo wash. They bought the Kenmore set new in about 1990. It's always just been the two of them, and it had bever been serviced. The dryer still works, but they figured both had more than paid for themselves so they opted for new.
Both our kids have the LG's, and so far like them.