Water Heater Question

[rp2813]

Hey Guys and Gals, especially those handy with a calculator,

I just had to replace my 40-gallon gas water heater last week. I bought a Whirlpool (badged only, not made by them) gas fired 40-gallon unit with 2" of insulation. Other heaters I was looking at only had 1" of insulation, this one was a good deal at Lowe's and is way over on the low-use end of the bar on the energy guide. It's located in the garage which is warmer than an outdoor or basement location during the cooler seasons.

So my question is, do I still need to wrap this thing with a blanket? With 2" of insulation already, would I be gaining much with a blanket? I currently have the temp set at about 130 if that makes any difference. I'd be interested in knowing whether I should return the blanket since I haven't opened its packaging yet, or if it could provide even more heat retaining assistance.

So to those members who enjoy working with coefficients I'd love to hear from you on this.

Thanks,

Ralph

 

[hydralique]

With insulation, more is usually better, providing that you don't start packing it too tight and therefore crush the airspace. Since the internal 2" insulation is protected by the cabinet that isn't going to happen. At some amount of insulation you will reach a point of diminishing return, but you really can't make the overall performance worse. Exactly where this point of diminishing return is in your application depends on not only the R-value of the insulation, but also the cost of your fuel, the amount of hot water you use, the cost of the insulation blanket, and the value of your time to return it for a refund.

If it were mine I'd just wrap it and call it a day.

 

[rp2813]

I'm leaning towards using the blanket because as stated, more is likely more in this case, but also because today's heaters come with so many labels and warnings pasted onto them that they're rather unsightly so at least the blanket will provide a clean white outer layer.

 

[petek]

I'd just wrap it now seeing as you have the blanket. How about all the water lines, have you insulated those? I did all mine a couple of months ago when I was having that dishwasher issue which turned out to be a faulty heater but doesn't hurt to do them anyways. BTW our gas water heater is a rental from the gas company, they just tack on $5/month or something for 24/7 replacement if something goes wrong. Many people here do it though it wasn't offered back in Calgary when we were there.

 

[rp2813]

Pete, that is a great option to have the gas company furnish the water heater. My dad said that back in Chicago you could take your burnt out light bulbs to the power company (Public Service Company at that time) and they'd give you new ones. This goes along the same lines as the "Don't be a dishwasher, buy one" ads that PG&E used to have on billboards across northern California back in the 60's. Times certainly have changed.

I don't have any insulation on any pipes. Not an issue around here, so wrapping the heater itself will be the extent of it.

 

[petek]

Still in all the more of the pipework you can get to and insulate the better and it's tres simple with those ready made foam pipe jackets that just slip over the pipe, they come in 3 ft lengths and you just cut to fit with scissors, no taping, no glue and they're dirt cheap.

 

[westyslantfront]

I have a 40 gallon gas water heater in the back of my house that supplies the house. I have a 40 gallon electric in the garage in the front of the house for my washing machines in the garage. A pipe runs over the roof connecting the back water heater to the garage so that both water heaters feed my machines. The contractor is here to install a tankless water heater. He says that it will be able to supply 60 gallons of hot water a minute.
And by removing hot water heaters, I have space for more washers.

Ross

 

[exploder3211]

I always wonderd why people wrapped there water heaters in those blankets. I know that a great use for them (which i did with the kenmore dishwasher we installed when we remodled the house last yeear) is wrapping your dishwasher in one. Adds great sound insulation and some how makes them work better... I wonderd if this was a good idea..

 

[toggleswitch]

Dont tell Gary I was looking at pipes.

Ross, IMHO you need a check vave on each of the cold lines just before each heater, based on the plumbing configuraion I saw during the wash-in.

This will avoid possible hot through cold line.

 

[toggleswitch]

Also if you are getting a GAS instantaneous heater, install it (upstream) before the tank type storage water heater you already have in the rear.

Both types used together ensure a practically limitless supply of hot water and more even temperatures regardless of flow-rate.

 

[selectomatic]

There are some things you can't have too much of.

Insulation is one of the less interesting things on the list, but there it is.

Tomorrow morning, go up to the water heater, and put your hand on the side. Chances are that it's above room temperature. Chances are that insulation will help reduce the loss.

As petek said, insulate the pipes. You may have 2" of insulation on the tank, but uninsulated pipes carry heat away like crazy -- and the insulation's easy to put on.

-kevin

 

[toggleswitch]

oh Kevin, I know EXACTLY what you are thinking.
Naughty boy.

 

[whirlcool]

And insulating your pipes prevents freeze ups and keeps the water in the pipes hotter longer.
When we moved in this house, all the pipes in the attic were bare. The hot water tank is also located in the attic. We insulated the pipes basically so they wouldn't freeze in the winter, but another advantage was that once you get hot water to the tap, it stays warmer for longer periods of time between uses.

 

[wannapinkset]

Mine has two inches and its recommended to not be wrapped by the manufacturer.

Hot water freezes first. Molecular thing.

My basement is way warmer than my garage. Was it just a room issue? My garage would be way too cold for sure.

 

[tomturbomatic]

I am glad that you are renting the heater. Two states have lawsuits against the manufacturer because the burner compartment is so air tight that it quickly burns out the pilot thermocouple. Also there is a screen under the heater for air intake that gets clogged with dust frequently, at least in the more efficient models. Neither Whirlpool nor Lowes was standing behind them. At least you will not have to be down on the floor replacing the thermocouple when the warranty expires, nor worrying about the blocked air to the burner. I found this out when I was looking at the WP heaters at Lowes and then went home and sought information about them on Google.

 

[toggleswitch]

~The hot water tank is also located in the attic.

Is this a de-facto solar collector, as it were?

 

[hydralique]

Pipe Insulation . . .

This is a great suggestion in any circumstance as noted by several people above. If your hot water system is on a circulating pump then it is essential as the pipes will be kept replenished with hot water whenever the pump is going and the more heat they radiate the more the heater will need to run.

 

[rp2813]

Lawsuits

Tom, say it isn't so! Should I expect this same kind of trouble with my new Whirlpool gas fired unit? Is there any maintenance thing I can do to avoid trouble? You're scaring me because we already had the pilot go out once. I'm just hoping it was a case of dirt in the gas line after reconfiguring the connection. Here I was thinking I had made a wise choice over GE (the brand Home Depot sells) and drove the extra miles to the nearest Lowe's. Plus I liked the idea of having an all-Whirlpool garage, my new Duets, the early 70's WP fridge and now the water heater. I sure don't want to have to deal with more water heater problems any time soon. I've been in my place for 17 years and the water heater that came with it was problem-free until it finally sprang a fatal leak a week ago. I was hoping for a similar long term performance from my new one. In fact, I've never heard of anyone having trouble with their water heater until now. My mom's lasted almost 35 years with zero maintenance. Is this another case of not making them like they used to?

 

[exploder3211]

Nuttins made like it used to be.. LoL the house i grew up in had the same A.O. Smith Water Heater from 1967 until 2007 when the new owners threw it out and replaced it (my dad rescued it last week and has it as his house, he plans to keep it for back up).. It still worked fine and wasn't rusty. Just needed an element replaced at about 30 years..

Not shocked about Whirlpool water heaters>. Why did they need them anyway??