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mixfinder

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I have used Maytag Neptunes, extensively, in the laundry of a condo where I live. I have been very impressed with their performance. Just playing around and seeing how little water enters the machine, I have stood over the soap dispenser with a basket of water pouring it in until I hear the loud slopping sound of the clothes hitting the water.
My question. Can you add more water to all the newer high efficiency machines and why don't more users do it instead of being disapointed in the washability of the 1,200 dollar units?
Kelly
 
If you do it to my LG, it will detect it as an oversudsing incident and run the suds protocal. Why are you adding more water? These machines are designed to wash very well with only the amount of water needed to wet the laundry + a little extra.

On the LG if I want to use more water I choose the Permanent Press Cycle. The delicate cycles use more water also, but they limit tumbling action to a few seconds a cycle. Overall, I think the LG washes better than any machine I've used in the USA.
 
More, Sir?

Designed to wash well and turning out a load washed well, is the reason I added more water. As a city dweller the most I need to do in washing is remove wrinkles and little body juice. When my son would visit and he is a mechanic on a ranch, his clothes pretty much looked the same coming out as they did going in. I also washed things like foam bed pillows and bedding and actually had the cycle end with dry spots on the load. More is good, less is bad. The TL has conistently performed, better, for me. I just like dinking around with the Neptunes, in the laundry room, so I can speak lucidly about the machine.
Kelly
Kelly
 
Water in washer!

I also have a LG 3677 combo full size machine. It uses little water and everything comes out clean. The spray action improves wash action with only a little water. I am satisified with the unit but I feel you should be able to add more water.
The only thing I don't like is the time it takes to balance a load to spin (sort of wastes a lot of time)
Peter
 
I definitely support Kelly on this. The frugal water use works fine to remove dirt. It is absolutely ineffective in removing odors. When large loads come out with dry spots, that tells you not enough water is being used. Anyone who disagrees is kidding themselves! The machine's only function is to wash clothes, after all.

A controllable water-level selector ought to be standard on every washing machine.
 
I've never felt the need to add more water to my Neptune 7500.

For large bulky hard-to-wet loads, I will choose a longer wash cycle, or the stain cycle, which adds about 15 minutes to the wash portion. This helps ensure that everything gets thoroughly wetted. On many modern FL's, however, the control panel has been dumbed down so that you never really know how long the wash part of the cycle is taking unless you time it. I suppose too many focus groups told too many washer designers that they don't want to do the "math" involved with selecting a wash time appropriate to a load size, fabric type, and/or soil level. What is supposed to be better "ease of use" turns out to be more lack of control.
 
I use a hose in the detergent dispenser to add water to my Mieles and my Duet. I generally don't add water to the wash because they fill fine for the wash. So does the Creda and it has a "Super Wash" switch that I activate when the wash drains so that the rinses are at higher levels. I know how much to add before they will sense too much water and start the drain pump, but I can get the water up on the vertical part of the window, even in the Duet, not that it is necessary to fill the Duet with that much water for rinsing most loads. Especially in the Winter, I add hot water to the cold only rinses to warm them up to cool at least. The single belt Kenmore Dual Tumble has an adjustable pressure switch so I turned it up. I usually wash on the small load setting and then turn it up to large to rinse. The large setting brings the water up to the light lens in the tub. The small setting fills with more water than the machine's original large setting.
 
Kelly-- I can't help but think there's something wrong with the machine if there are dry spots on comforters (or whatever bedding you mentioned in a prior post)at the end of a wash cycle. I wash a heavy, absorbent queen-size comforter in my FL Frigidaire and the thing is soaking wet a couple of minutes into the cycle. There's no 'drop', as the tub is stuffed very full, but it's definitely saturated and you can see suds squeezing in and out the center of the load.
 
Frigilux, my Frigidaire FL machine washed large comforters and other large items flawlessly. I purchased an HE set last year, and exacltly the same loads will barely get wet in the middle during the wash cycle. The lint and pet hair removal are also inferior to my old Frigidaire FL machine. I do realize the importance of conserving water, but the primary purpose of these machines is to wash clothes effectively. I feel the objective is hampered by their stingy use of water.
 
ive used the Duet many times. my best friend has one. ive NEVER had a load come out dry in the center. this is only MY experience. we've washed HUGE hamperfulls, and though the cycle is QUITE long, always good results. maybe clothes impregnated with fabric softener dont absorb quickly enough during the fill? these machines continue filling while tumbling to allow the items to soak up water BEFORE the machines senses enough water. maybe if someone uses fabric softener, the clothes dont soak up quickly enough before the machine senses a *full* water level? also, if the items being washer are too bulky, they cant turnover properly and absorb. i would consider this overloaded. my comments apply only to the Duet by Whirlpool. my friend (Kevyn) has washed huge overstuffed loads with jeans tshirts and socks, machine filled to capacity, and always acceptable results. my cynical side wonders if the the vintage devotees/FL skeptics are simply prejudiced against the new technology?
 
PS

i will agree, for heavily soiled loads, the machine simply MUST be able to heat the wash water. the ratio of water to clothes is such that the clothes cool the water. all water-thrifty FLs should have a heater.
 
adding water!

I recently added a further 10 litres to the final rinse of a load of towels in my AEG. Problem is the drum physically dops when there is a heavy amount of water in it. I just worry that because the machines are manufactured with very little water useage in mind that the suspension is not capable of taking this extra weight in the drum?
Maybe I am being a little too cautious...
 
Bearpeter

Well this is the fill level for some rinses on my AEG (which has the Zanussi style drum assembly) and I haven't had any problem yet with the suspension failing! The water level actually gets higher than this - halfway up the drum - on big 6 kilo loads, and on the final rinses for Delicates, Easy Iron, Silk, Fashion, and Woollens Handwash

Jon

5-7-2006-07-44-6--lavamat_jon.jpg
 
Skeptic Top Loader

I am far from prejudiced and willingly "wash around". I have no opinion, other than sharing what my experiences have been in Neptune, Coin-OP front loaders. My questions was simple, would washing performance increase with more water? I do not have the liberty of extending or altering cycle time or options, since it is a coin op.

I am predjudiced against washing machines that don't let the operator watch. I am ragingly, fixately, mental about the annoying noise of the agitator in the Whirlpool/Kenmore toploader, one of which I have, at this time, inside my condo.

I am also manically prejudiced against Sears, as an entity, for being the icon where poor people shopped when I was kid, for the way I was treated as a high school employee in DECA, for their deceptive credit practices, inflated repair charges and being listest in the top 10 of homophobic companies in America.

Even, prejudice would not keep me from trying a machine or washine system to see the quality of wash it predjudiced. I sort by color, weight and soil, pretreat, presoak and double rinse in needed. I am Laundry Man!

I learned to sort laundry by weight after using a Maytag 808 for 22 years. That way everything is dry at once and the dainties aren't tortured while waiting for the towels to dry.

Kelly
 
Well, low water levels are actually better at washing than deeper water levels for most laundry loads as the tumbling action is used better. Larger amounts of water in the wash cycle can hamper the tumbling action and therefore bring about a less vigorous tumbling action - and this the primary reason why the more delicate cycles on frontloaders fill up with more water, so as to cushion the tumbling action. Deep water washes do, however, have their advantages when washing bulkier items such as duvets, and as I just mentioned are better for washing more delicate items so as more delicate items can float through the water rather than be tumbled and dropped into a small pool at the bottom of the drum.

The amount of water in the rinses, on the other hand, I feel is ultimately important. Although low levels work well on my Miele because of the high speed interim spins, I find that the low levels on my AEG and Bosch machines really do push the limits. The AEG isn't so bad as it has a Sensitive button which delivers high level rinses like the one in the picture I just posted, but the Bosch only utilises low level rinses in the Cottons cycles and the rinsing is absolutely dire - plus most laundry put through the Bosch is still left covered in lint & dog hair at the end of the cycle. (Thank god mum's Bosch has died, and that it'll be replaced soon).

Jon
 
Kelly, I don't think that you are prejudiced. A repair tech friend watched an LG for a while after it was started. Five minutes into the wash cycle there were still dry patches in the load, so it can happen. Manufacturers are struggling to beat each other in the race to use the least water to impress the bureaucrats who give energy efficiency ratings to appliances, but don't care about performance. Up until last year, they tested dishwashers for energy efficiency with clean dishes, so it was not how well they washed or rinsed. That's why you have dishwashers that give only one rinse after the main wash in come cases. If you like top loaders and either use a suds saver system or drain the wash water from one machine to a second and start a second load, you are essentially cutting your wash water use in half. If your large capacity Maytag fills with 18 or 19 gallons of hot or warm water for the wash and you use it a second time with a bit more detergent added, you have cut your wash water consumption to 9 or 10 gallons, which begins to get very economical for a full tub of clothes. My KA top loader uses a few more gallons for the highest fill because I adjusted the water level switch and it holds a significantly large load than my A806, but if I reuse that water, I have washed a huge load in maybe 11 or 12 gallons of water. There are lots of ways to economize without giving up your favorite method of washing clothes.

In these new machines which only rinse in cold water, it is true that you might not see suds in the last rinse because cold water does suppress suds. If you put the load through a warm rinse, you usually will see suds, although there are many variable factors.

Jon, that picture of your AEG rinse water level, for which we thank you very much, is what I can achieve by adding water to the rinses on the cottons cycle on my W1986, but with its 1000 rpm spins after every drain and the 1200 rpm final spin, there is never enough detergent residue in the laundry to cause any kind of skin irritation even if I don't add the extra water to the rinses on normal size loads.
 
Hi Tom,

My Miele can also fill high up the window - in fact I do have it set that way at the moment (I washed a duvet a couple of weeks ago, and haven't had chance to turn off the higher water level programmable function yet). The only thing I've noticed is that the higher rinses do wash out any remaining smell from detergents such as Bold which are heavily scented, of which you can only slightly smell anyway after the high level rinses on the Miele. However, laundry still smells heavily of Bold after 4 low water level rinses in the Bosch... so it just goes to show :-)

Take care,

Jon
 
Hey Jon

Did the Bosch actually die or did you put it down? :-) Remember what I did when I was a kid LOL

What'll you replace it with? I've heard the new Servis is s**t hot.
 
Knurled Knob

Turbo!!
I discovered the white knurled knob under the buttons for water level in 1972. I adjusted my Maytags and those of my friends, to fill completely.
In the 60's Kenmore began to have washers fill to just above the ramp on the agitator. I would hold the water level selector on resert until those models filled.
I always wondered if Kenmore, Maytag and other manufacteres began that practice to:
1. Appear more eco friendly, even though that wasn't a focus then.
2. Extra insurance against over filling and a hedge against liability.
3. More stress on the motor and transmission so the washer would wear out sooner.

Kelly
 
rinso--- I guess this is why many of the newest machines have 'Bulky' cycles that add extra water when washing comforters, etc. My 2003 FL Frigidaire isn't as stingy with water as a new Hettie4 (and some others), but it also uses less water per fill than my old WCI-era FL Gibson/Westinghouse. I embrace appliances that use less water/energy, but if it gets to the point (and apparantly it has) that cleaning is compromised, then we've taken water conservation in washers as far as we can.

As I get 'washer fever' every few years, I keep thinking I should invest in one of the newest FL models from Whirlpool, GE, LG, Maytag or Frigidaire (all of which are available in or near my tiny village). With the gripes I keep reading here concerning compromised cleaning and cycle length issues (usually due to long pre-spin balancing acts), I think I'll hang on to my '03!

By the way, with which brand did you replace your old FL Frigidaire pair?
 
Jon

It appears that consumers are offered machines that fill with an acceptable amount of water outside the US, based upon photos I have seen posted here.

The photo you showed is something that I have NEVER seen on a recent, domestic front loader here -- usually they fill with enough water only to get the clothes wet. You will never see a water level in the window.

So here in the US, we have 2 options: a top loader which uses too much water, and a front loader with not enough. There needs to be a happy medium offered somewhere.
 
Well, there's always the Miele's :-P. Even though the manuals skimp over the programmable functions, the same programmable functions that work on the European and Australian models work on the US Touchtronics, so you can mod the Sensitive button as it's called on the US Touchtronics to deliver not just an extra rinse, but a high level rinse too :-).

The standard rinse level on the AEG is just so it touches the door, but that level is achieved by pressing the Sensitive button.

Take care,

Jon
 
Nick

Yes, the Bosch actually died, and at a point where I wish it didn't. It still works *so he says*, but you can't use the extra rinse cycle as it likes to get stuck on the extra rinse, and also it attempts to spin then just aborts. On top of that bearings are wearing out, door sometimes takes ages to unlock, makes horrible grinding sort of noises, struggles to go up to spin (when it actually does spin), has never flushed powder down properly, drain pump is getting weak etc etc it is getting beyond economical repair. Seeming as we bought it for £350 just over 3 years ago, and it has been put through 15 loads or so per week plus was shoved around quite carelessly by the builders when we were having the renovations done, I think it's safe to say we've got our money's worth out of it, and it has a place in appliance heaven, god rest it's soul. (If only the bugger had rinsed properly!!! LOL).

Mum and I are looking at a Miele to go downstairs, probably one of the new W1000 models, also been looking at AEG's as a cheaper option. Not really a priority at the moment though, as mum is busy studying for her degree, plus my nana and my dad have both been in hospital over the last week so the washer has been the last thing on all of our minds, and have just been churning laundry through in the Miele up here :-).

Take care,

Jon
 
Miele

I have looked at the USA Miele website, but I'm suspicious as it proudly advertises using as little as 8 gallons per cycle....this is definitely what I DON'T want!

I would be interested in Miele, but only if I could be assured that it could be reprogrammed to offer high water levels on both the wash and rinse cycle.
 
Their are definitely dry spots in a very large load on my LG at the end of the prewash cycle. I've gotten around this by starting the cycle with the Permanent Press WASH cycle, interrupting the machine and then setting it to a full cycle starting with PREWASH. The machine drains the tub to a preset level, but by then the load is completely wet. I've found after a couple of years I tend to use the Permanent Press cycle more than the Normal. I know we have very soft water down here on the CT shoreline; maybe that makes a difference but I always have clean laundry. Nothing works on heavily stained laundry than the FL program of cold prewash, wash, several rinses and a fast spin. You can't beat it. It was interesting to note, at least on the LG that the most heavy duty cycle, COTTONS AND LINENS, the water level is at its lowest and the tumble interval is greatest. With less water in the tub to buffer the fabrics, there is more "action" on them. As long as the fabrics are totally wet, they're going to release soil.
 
European vs US water levels

After hotly defending the level used here in Germany in LGs I have since heard from many folks that they don't use nearly the same amount in the 'States. Since they are considered very efficient here, I am not surprised to hear that so many folks are unhappy about that.
Almost all modern washers can be adjusted - either electronically or on the mechanical level sensor - to use enough water to get the job done.
The question is, though - why should you have too? We are talking about serious money here.
I am especially curious about reprogramming Miele - can anyone describe the process in more detail? To reprogram mine involves a very expensive service call - and since it has always worked perfectly, I have never been tempted.
 
I would also like more detail on reprogramming Miele, is this only available on certain models, etc? And how much are the services calls?
 

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