Water main leak mistaken for natural spring.....

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dalangdon

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Seattle, WA
It's amazing to me that, particularly after the steam pipe explosion in NYC and the collapsed interstate bridge in Minneapolis, we are still failing to grasp the basics of infrastructure maintenance. The longer we take to fix these things, the more money its going to cost us.

Here in Seattle, we have ratepayers who scream at any hint of a rate increase, but still insist that we should be putting all of the power lines underground. When did we forget that there's no such thing as a free lunch?

http://www.nytimes.com/aponline/us/AP-Deteriorating-Water-Pipes.html?_r=1&oref=slogin
 
So true . . .

Leaking water mains are not only a conservation issue, they also pose a huge safety issue. A small but continuous amount of water can saturate hillside soil and cause a landslide if the conditions are right. Even broken sprinkler systems can cause nasty problems in some cases - water is a powerful force!
 
Tell Me About It...

...Here in the Atlanta area, we've had major problems with water main breakage, stemming from the desire of a previous mayoral administration to host the '96 Olympics (glamorous) rather than start repairing a water system they knew was on the brink of major failure (not glamorous). Sinkholes have opened up and swallowed entire cars. Traffic tie-ups lasting days have been caused by mains breaking in our fanciest and most expensive part of town, Buckhead.

They busted that mayor for tax evasion and he's in prison now, but if you ask me, he should have been jailed for malfeasance in office.
 
Never mind about the wasted water...backflow caused by back siphonage - drop in the water mains....imagine high hazard operations potable water being sucked in to the the drinking water supply system...hopefully New York has a good Cross Connection Control Program.

Bob
 
Wasted water is a big problem though. What with population growth and a finite water supply this is going to be a big, big, issue in the future and old crappy water systems just make it worse.
 
Dan:

"Sandy, I thought that Atlanta sold off their water system several years back. Did I get that wrong?"

Dan, they contracted the water system's operations out to a French company (United Water, a division of Suez) a few years ago, but it's now back to municipal operation. The French company had no clue what it was getting into with aging infrastructure, and wanted to pull out, is my understanding.

Here's a link to a CorpWatch page detailling what is supposed to have happened. The article infers that the condition of Atlanta's water infrastructure was not correctly represented to United Water when the privatisation deal was made, and I don't personally doubt that a bit:

http://www.corpwatch.org/article.php?id=5538
 
When I was in 7th grade with dinosaurs walking the earth, we studied things in our health course like water systems & Typhoid Mary. The textbok even taught why you should never let the hose drop into the washing machine or any kind of tub or sink while you are filling it because of the danger of contaminated water being sucked back into the pipes if the pressure were to drop suddenly. One Saturday we went to the Atlanta Water Works. We walked through the filtering house on these narrow sidewalks between large tanks of water with sand at the bottom. That was fine with everything nice and quiet. Then they showed us how they backflushed the filter tanks, probably wanting to scare a bunch of school kids. There we were on the narrow walks between these tanks when suddenly all of the sand and water began to bubble up with great noise and violent action. They almost had some unplanned contamination of the water from me. I wanted out of there so bad, but there were students all over the walkways galvanized in place by the sensation that we were all sinking into the roiling water.

The other thing they showed us was the steam operated pumping system that was immune to power failures. We got to look into the firebox through a peep hole (technical term) in the door. It was coal fired and had been running for decades, maybe a century, providing dependable water pressure for the system. I understand it was decommissioned sometime in the past few decades. When that big power failure hit so many states around the Great Lakes a few years ago there was a big emergency because the electric pumping stations lost power so people lost drinking water. The only thing that made less sense were the electrically operated pumps needed to keep New Orleans dry. How quickly did the hurricane shred the power distribution system in New Orleans and when did they really need the pumps? Seems like they could have had back-up natural gas powered pumps.
 
Isn't New York in the process of building a completely NEW water tunnel? Yes, they are investing in the infastructure...the old one just has to hold out for another 8-10 years till it's finished! The water at this "spring" is the untreated water from the resivour that is on it's way to the purification plant. Yes, it's clean, but it is not certified potable drinking water yet!

Yes, we do need to upgrade our infrastructure, but let's get real and tax the useage. If we need to upgrade our water system, why don't we just raise water useage rates instead of bilking everyone out of money no matter how much we use. This will also promote conservation. Everyone complains about the gasoline tax, but it's also a fair tax. If you don't use the road, you aren't paying for it! You drive a bigger vehicle that uses more fuel, you wear the road down more, you pay more...it's that simple! I don't want to hear ANY more truck drivers whining about fuel taxes! They are getting a pretty darned good bargain as it is!

I about cried the other day when I heard that the "congestion" tax for New York city was shot down. The congestion tax was going to specifically pay for upgrades to mass & public transit. Instead, they are now going to use a millionaire tax instead. HELLO! Those people aren't even using the transportation system!!!! The congestion tax would do two things...first, it would discourage people from driving personal vehicles into the city, and it would actually charge a fair fee for using the roads and streets.

...why can't our politicians get logical with taxes!!!
 
Here's the OTHER side of the pipeline story

Tunnel #3 and a detailed explanation of how New York's water system workss..

I find it interesting in all that whining in the articale about deteriorating infrastructure, they only briefly mentioned tunnel #3, and it's construction would allow the older tunnels to be maintained and repaired (stopping the leak such as this)

You cannot believe everything the press has...you gotta dig a little deeper!

http://www.ita-aites.org/cms/319.html
 
I fully agree with increased ratepayer fees for normal wear and tear, and some major projects. It gets a bit shady for me, however, when you are talking about huge public works projects that place an undue burden on rateholders, when the benefit to the nation as a whole probably outweighs the cost to the taxpayer.

It gets even more complicated when you are talking about private utilities (since municipal utilities have a certain built-in advantage to both the rateholder and the utility when it comes to major projects of this sort).

In this case, should we fall on the side of it being solely a NYC responsibility, or should we consider the importance of a safe water system to our biggest city, which is also a planetary commerce center?

In the bigger infrastructure picture, where do you draw the line? We are facing this in Seattle, as we contemplate the replacement of a vital bridge across Lake Washington and a downtown waterfront highway. In these instances, I'm all for tolls, since they are state highways, but if they were interstate highway links, I'd feel differently (since the interstate is a federal program)

And what about programs like the Bonneville power administration and the Tennessee Valley Authority? True, they are regional in scope, but the energy they provide benefits the whole nation - both in terms of economic activity, and the tax base. Shouldn't we, as a nation, accept some of the liability, along with the benefit?

Admittedly, I'm an infrastructure and politics geek. Otherwise, why would I be posting something like this on a Friday night? But it is a question for society to ponder: Our forebearers built the infrastructure on which we have structured our lives and our livelihood. What do we owe our offspring?
 

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