water temps in "energy efficient" washers....?

[firedome]

excuse the perhaps obvious ? don't pay much attention to non-vintage machines...
so our 1 yr old BOL Hotpoint top loader has the usual 3 water temps, but on the Hot setting the water is merely warm, at best. Is regulating (lowering) water temps one of the "features" on new machines to make them more "efficient"? I like to wash whites in really hot water, Sears detergent, and a bit of bleach, and the temp at the faucet of the adjoining laundry sink comes out steaming hot... what gives?

 

[yogitunes]

well, in this case, YES, your machine has a dubbed down setting, that you can't actually change....

not one choice will work for all machines....but we have done a few, some work, some don't....

some have tried to turn off the cold side when it fills, but doesn't work on all machines, as some will detect that the cold side is not available, and shut the machine down.....

you can try unplugging or removing the thermistor to see if that allows an all hot fill...

some machines have it built into the timer, when hot is selected, it allows for one minute of hot water, and then switches to either warm or cold for the rest of the fill....

you have to try different options....and still may not be able to get the temp you want....

one advantage you do have is the sink, as you can always hook up a hose to it, and fill the machine manually for the wash...that may be your only option....

 

[revvinkevin]

 

 

I have a 2005 LG washer and this thing really "dumbs down" the wash temps. If I want a "warm" wash, I have to select "hot", as "warm" is maybe luke warm at best. The thing I really don't like is, no matter what temp you select, it always flows cold water about 8 seconds when you start it. I've tried adding hot water with a hose through the dispenser, but at some point, if the water is "too hot", it will start adding cold water again.

 

My "hot wash work around" has been, turning the cold water valve down to a trickle and adding hot with a hose through the dispenser. I have the cold at a trickle so I know when the water level has been reached. If I add too much water, it will start draining after only a few minutes of wash time. Fortunately this isn't my only washer, so if I want a "real" hot wash, I'll use another machine rather than baby sitting this one.

 

Kevin

[this post was last edited: 5/16/2017-16:40]

 

[firedome]

just did the hose fill...

to do a load with the super hot water as it comes from our tap, set around 170-180, and what a difference! When that load was done checked the water temp when on just the "Warm" setting, 105-110 at best.. sheesh! So to get Warm we need to set on "Hot", and manual fill to get truly hot water...not sure SWMBO will willingly go thru that rigamarole, I need to fix the 1:18 and put it on line!!

 

[yogitunes]

Roger

can you post a pic and model number.....

just wondering if there is a way to 'override' this somehow......all we can do it try.....

what does it do when you select HOT?.....does it cycle back and forth, or hot only for a short time, and then warm/cool mix to complete the fill....or what happens if you turn the cold faucet off?.....

I don't expect a BOL machine to have intricate programming or wiring for getting past this, but then again, anything is possible...

probably the best thing you have going, which many overlook to start with, is having your water heater set to a high setting, like 160-180......I have mine set like that, always have, always will.....most machines with internal heaters can't compete with that....KUDOS to you for that one!

many people select hot, when their water heater is set to 120....their not starting with real hot water to start with....WTH?

I only have one machine that dubs down, and the loss is only 10 degrees....its a Cabrio, tried pulling the internal thermistor out of its socket, but that affected the warm setting......found it best for this machine to remove the restrictor on the hot valve side....

ironic, Auto Temp Control was only for raising cooler temps....making sure warm was warm, and cold was raised for proper detergent activation, hot was never controlled.....odd how we have gone in a opposite direction......I expect the next generation of machine to have an ice maker dropping cubes into the tub!

 

[Chetlaham]

IF your machine is just a knob, chances are it can be wired up to fill with true temps. I know BOL GE machines often have 3 water valves, and if you unhook the right one I believe you will get a hot fill.

 

[coldspot66]

Why would you launder anything at 170-180 degrees?

 

[askolover]

Well....my Miele will actually heat up to 190F!  It's great for getting greasy stains out and also sanitizing certain things if one doesn't want to use chlorine bleach.  I frequently do my towels on 190F.  Just did a load two days ago and they are so white now.

 

[foraloysius]

Yes, such high temperatures and oxygen bleach make things whiter than hot water (140F) and chlorine bleach!

 

[launderess]

Why would you launder anything at 170-180 degrees

Sanitation, disinfection, stain removal, heavy soils/oils, these are just off the top of one's head.

For European washing machines they were designed with those countries methods of washing in mind; that of the old ways which is to use very hot to boiling water for at least whites and colourfast.

In the old days you did such things to get best cleaning with what was available (soap and basically soda), but then came oxygen bleach (sodium perborate) which really only gets going at temps >140F.

By the 1970's or 1980's bleach activators came along (they were introduced due to the energy crisis) enabling one to get boil wash results even at hot or warm water temperatures.

Americans OTOH never really went in for oxygen bleach, but instead use chlorine based agents. Chlorine bleaches work in hot, warm or cold water and are well suited to the short cycles other features of top loading automatic and semi-automatic washing machines. Indeed boiling went out for most American housewives when washing machines came in.

If have badly soiled/stained laundry it goes into either Miele or AEG; set the machine to 180F or 200F, add a bit of Persil "universal" (Henkel), and that is that.

 

[firedome]

model # HSWP1000MWW

3.6 cu. ft. cheapy BOL model, think we paid maybe 320-ish, delivered? We assume that we won't be in this house for more than 1-2 yrs and will leave it behind. Not a bad machine, actually, has a ribbed tub plus a 2 stage agitator: lower paddle, screw top, and it seems to move water around pretty well. Puts a fair amount of H2O in the tub and although far from state-of-the-art, except for the temps it does a reasonable job, no complaints all things considered.

I misspoke on temps, on the Hot setting it's more like only 110-115 degrees, on Warm it feels more or less like Cold to me, even after filling for some time, and the temps remain constant thru-out fill.

Rather than futz around with internals think I'll just teach swmbo to fill it with a hose using tap water that comes out steaming hot, it may be more like 190+ degrees. For whites I like the old fashioned way of really hot water, NaClO, and use big orange box Sears detergent we picked up on sale 2 yrs ago on the recce of some folks here. The load done yesterday came out great. Best of all it's finally hang-on-the-line time in upstate NY... gotta love the way everything smells soooo fresh!

 

[Chetlaham]

Easy peasy

Getting hot water on this model is by far the easiest. No need to cut wires and re-splice others as with most other models. All you have to do is unhook one of the water valve terminals. This model has 3 water valves, and when set to hot a single cold valve simultaneously opens giving warm- when warm is selected two valves open to give cool. I am unsure which terminal to unhook (dont have the schematic in front of me)- I believe the one with the yellow-black wire- but you can confirmed via the tech sheet in the control panel.

 

[Chetlaham]

Here is the link to the water valve:

http://www.searspartsdirect.com/par...ryName=Residential Washers&brandName=HOTPOINT

 

[philcobendixduo]

Warning Notices On Hot Faucets?

Hey, Roger,
I hope you have warning notices on faucets that house guests might use informing them that the hot water coming from the tap can scald them within a second of contact.
170-180 is a WAY too hot water temperature for a home setting.
I'd hate to be in the shower when someone opens a cold tap somewhere in the house!
AAAAEEEEEEEE!!!

 

[firedome]

Yah we warn 'em!

I'm guessing, it may be less than 190. Everything is Moen single handle mixer valve though, so it's easy to adjust.

Chetlaham - thanks for that useful info!

 

[yogitunes]

yeah, I got those temperature adjustment valves on the tub/showers....or rather, they refer to them as Anti Scald valves....

actually its a little disc under the handle, that you can adjust to 'set' the actual highest temp that would be allowed...all it does is control how far the knob can be turned towards the hot side...

to save even more water, at least in the kids bathroom, a flow restrictor is installed, 2 gallons per minute was still too much for my liking, so I used a dime, and drilled a tiny hole, to reduce usage to 1 gallon per minute....still plenty of pressure for the hand shower.....flushing a toilet has little effect on temps....

 

[rinso]

Like most new energy star machines, our new LG top-loader has the dumbed down hot water, even on the "Bright Whites" load. I love the way the machine works otherwise, and it can be set to use extra water, except that, of course, it is cold.

 

[cuffs054]

Day dreaming here about my new GE. If it has the three valve set-up and I figure out which wire to pull, could I then put in a small line switch that would let me have hot when I want and back to normal when not?

 

[DADoES]

 
Calypso and Neptune TL have ATC for cold and warm (not dumbed-down quite as much as current machines) but hot is tap-temp on both.  I always select Hot and adjust my tankless water heater to the exact temp I want.

 

[jerrod6]

If the machine was made with 2018 EPA regulations in mind you won't be able to modify anything to get more hot water, or water into the machine

 

[combo52]

2018 DOE regulations

If the machine was made with 2018 regulations in mind you won't be able to modify anything to more hot water or water into the machine.

 

Well, maybe not by making different selections, but there is no way to stop anyone from modifying the machine in any way one wants.

 

[yogitunes]

in just about any given newer HE machine, its usually the NORMAL cycle that is the most stringent on water savings....

I doubt a machine made a year ago would have restrictions for upcoming 2018 just yet...

most of us have found ways around the lower water usage and dubbed down temps...

any other option would be to look into returning to an older traditional washer and dryer...theres still plenty to find on CL

 

[warmsecondrinse]

Someone I know (here on AW?) had this problem. Here's how he solved it:

Put a Y-valve with individual taps on the hot water in flow. One leg of the Y outflow went to the machine. The other went to the second Y-valve.

The second Y-valve was installed inverted, i.e. 2-into-1. One leg of the inflow was hot water (see above) and the second leg of inflow was from the cold water tap. The outflow of this second Y-valve went to the machine's cold water inlet.

He set the machine to 'warm' so both inlets would open and he regulated the incoming temps by opening and closing the taps of the Y-valves. Since this worked, I assume that this machine dumbed down the temps through the use of timers (see Yogi's comment in reply #1) with no actual temp sensing involved.

Granted this is complicated. If I had a sink adjacent to the machine I'd first try adding hot water with a hose from the sink. If that didn't work, I'd try the Y-valve option once I;d determined that timers controlled all.

Heads up: Owner's manuals sometimes lie. The washer-that-shall-not-be-named that brought me into AW had an instruction guide that clearly stated water levels were determined by 'sensing' the load. However, the REPAIR manual emphasized the importance of keeping the filter screens of the inlet hoses clear at all times because initial water fill was timer controlled so clogged screens could lead to insufficient water fill. I do know that I was able to manually add water and the machine seemed not to notice either the temp or quantity added.

If a company would print contradictory info on water levels, why not on water temps?

Jim

 

[warmsecondrinse]

Another Thought:

If you are averse to depending on a vintage machine, I believe at least one of the Avanti (and clones) machines Yogi's discovered does NOT dumb down temps. Yogi, please verify.

I've used these machines and am a devoted cheerleader.

Jim

 

[launderess]

Sad thing is

These "energy saving" regulations do not save that much on average. Maybe between ten to thirty dollars per year (if that), depending upon how one heats water. That is the fly across behind of Obama/USA government when these rules were thought up. Oh and the cost of energy for drying laundry in a clothes drier.

Given the ever increasing costs of these "energy saving" machines, it would take perhaps nearly two decades to recoup any savings on energy. When you consider the average lifespan for most new washing machines is barely ten years you can see whole thing is a con.

 

[combo52]

Energy Savings Of New Energy Star Washers

Are HUGE compared to machines built only ten or more years ago, Newer machines use just 1/4 the water on average [ filtering and supplying and cleaning water afterwards uses a HUGE amount of energy ]

 

Newer machines consume less than 1/2 the electricity to run them.

 

Newer ES washers use as little as 5 gallons of hot water compared to over 50 gallons of hot water, which is a 10 fold improvement.

 

New ES washers can extract twice as much water from clothing which saves a lot of electricity drying the clothing.

 

Hopefully there will be a standard encouraging consumers to switch to Natural gas dryers, doing so would save a HUGE amount of carbon dioxide emissions going into the atmosphere.

 

There is no going back, most consumers love their new ES washers, AND washers are lasting longer than ever before in automatic washer history, ask the guys that repair machines.

 

John L.

 

[earthling177]

"Hopefully there will be a standard encouraging consumers to switch to Natural gas dryers, doing so would save a HUGE amount of carbon dioxide emissions going into the atmosphere."

Well, while I admire the sentiment, I hope people will *not* press so it comes true.

It may have been true in the past that generating electricity consumed a huge amount of oil/coal, but it's not anymore, particularly in places where they use the exhaust heat.

And also, at least around here, there are plenty of homes whose solar panels generate more than enough electricity to power the electric dryers and still sell energy back to the utilities.

I would prefer a more balanced approach, where people say things along the lines of "if your situation is like this, a gas dryer makes more sense, but if your situation is more like that one, an electric dryer will cause the least amount of pollution".

 

[launderess]

One is always leery whenever anyone throws around superlatives like "Huge", or "Bigly" and so forth.

Energy savings a household will experience is directly tied to how it produces hot water and heats the clothes dryer and costs for said fuel.

Here in NYC aside from multifamily housing (apartments) where connections are not possible, a majority of dryers run on natural gas. Given the rather dear rates in this state and especially city that is no surprise.

Hot water supplies are a mixed bag; larger buildings with steam heating often get their hot water from a coil in boiler. That boiler more often than not as oil, but many are converting to natural gas. Again it varies by location and what is available but in NYC most homes use gas or oil for hot water (where it does not come from a side arm off boiler).

Federal government "Energy Star" website speaks in terms of "average" and savings that "can" be reached. Even then an energy efficient washing machine is only rated to save on "average" $45 per year on utility bills.

https://www.energystar.gov/products/appliances/clothes_washers

Average life span of new washing machines sold in USA is between 7-14 years, with between 10 to 11 most common.

In order for an energy efficient appliance to "pay for itself" the savings must be reached during if not well before the thing requires major service/wants rubbishing.

Forty-five dollars over course of one year is only $3,75 per month. IMHO not nearly enough motivation to bother with wash times measured in nearly two hours or more, machines that require "cleaning" cycles to keep mould and whiff at bay, and most of all being forced into being led and managed like a child who does not know how to do laundry.

http://michaelbluejay.com/electricity/laundry.html

 

[DADoES]

 
HE / EnergyStar washers are all fine and well ... but the dumbed-down temperatures are not.  Hot water usage should not be limited being that the machines are by design saving many gallons of water over old-style, non-HE toploaders.

 

[firedome]

getting hosed...

well it turns out swmbo seems to actually like filling it via hose from the sink tap, it saves time since she likes to let the washer fill up somewhat before adding Sears Ultra Plus powder and bleach. The tap water is steaming hot and the whites are coming out so much cleaner and fresher now.

As far as gas vs elec drying, the most efficient is hanging outside, which we can do March/April to November, even in central NY. Nothing can beat that fresh-air smell and we love scratchy towels - yymv.