Way off topic, I know: need your take on older series Miele UPRIGHT vacuums

[passatdoc]

Hi folks, I registered to be able to post at VacuumLand to ask this question, but you have to wait for webmaster approval so I thought I would ask here, since many readers are vacuum-savvy.

I live in a single-story house with roughly 55% low-medium pile carpet and 45% ceramic tile. My daily driver vacuum is a Miele S5 series cannister with a SE-17 powerhead (the smaller one that doesn't adjust for carpet height; it was purchased 2002 when the adjustable height powerhead was not, as far as I know, an option).

For cleaning hard floors, it's great. For cleaning the car or ceiling fans or dusting or computers or upholstered furniture, it's great with various attachments. As accessories, I eventually bought the mini cleaning kit (great for getting at dryer crevices) and the mini turbo brush (great for car interior), as well as a larger dusting brush. I've never had it serviced, but I plan to take it for a preventive overhaul just to be sure everything is ok with it, it's an expensive investment.

(And I need to add that I didn't buy it; my parents bought it as a gift and I had no say in the selection, though I did buy the accessories above at later dates).

Where it is only so-so is on the carpet. Not sure if it's because height doesn't adjust, or because wall to wall carpet is far less common in Europe and the thing just wasn't designed to deep clean carpet. Or perhaps powerhead technology was not that far advanced in 2002.

At any rate, when I was given the Miele, I gave away my bulky/awkward Hoover upright to a thrift store. Its tools were useless, but it did do a good job on carpet. As mentioned above, I am planning to bring the S5 for routine preventive servicing which may put it out of action for a couple of week. First time it's seen a service shop. So I began looking for a less expensive upright "spare vacuum" that:

1. could serve as a substitute while the S5 is in the shop.

2. if the S5 ever died and could not be fixed at reasonable cost, I would need something to use until a replacement for the S5 could be procured

3. possibly could do a better job on carpet than the Miele S5.

I started researching upright vac's. Miele has a new line of upright vac's that are priced way above ($550-950) my budget for a machine to fulfill the criteria above (spare vacuum when S5 is in the shop, buy time if S5 ever dies, maybe do better on carpet).

However, while cruising the internet, I discovered that Miele had an earlier line of uprights known as the S183, S184, S185

http://www.amazon.com/Miele-S183-Upright-Vacuum-Cleaner/dp/B0006U4GK4

which are now the "old models" and no longer their current line. Several retailers still have limited stocks of them and apparently are selling them at discounted prices, since consumers for whom money is no object will pony up $550-950 for the Miele name and get a new model upright. Basically, it seems like the new models swivel like an electric broom, while the old models roll back and forth like a traditional upright. The new models get excellent reviews but it's hard to find reviews on the S-183-185 series, since they are no longer manufactured (but still sold until supply runs out).

The S183 used to go for $350-400, and as you well know, Miele tightly controls prices in the USA on new products, but if it's being offered for $229, Miele must not enforce prices on older discontinued models. In that sense, it may be a "deal" to get a new, discontinued model at 40% of what used to be the retail/enforced price.

Why Miele? The brand has a good reputation for not selling junk; otherwise their image would be ruined if they put out low-end, junky products. Second, at $229, that's approaching the cost of a sturdy Hoover or Dyson upright. Third, the Miele can be used on hard floors because there is a switch to turn off the rollers/brushes. The quality of the tools and tool hose suction is not a big issue because it would mostly be used just on carpet. My guess is that it would HAVE to do a better job on carpet than my S5. I wouldn't pay $400 for it if it were still a current model, but $229 is tenable.

Any opinions? Anyone have experience with the S-183-184-185 series? Even if I posted the question at Vacuumland, my guess is that I would get some unintelligible answers from people WAY more into vacuums than I am. They are as passionate about vacuums over there as we are about washers.

http://www.amazon.com/Miele-S183-Upright-Vacuum-Cleaner/dp/B0006U4GK4

 

[hooverwheelaway]

The "discontinued" Miele uprights that you are questioning purchase of aren't bad machines. You do have the ability to turn the brushroll off so you can go onto a bare floor without scattering dirt. They are quiet, and the one in the picture has a headlight and a variable-speed motor. I worked at a place in NC for a while that sold (and serviced) Miele vacuums quite regularly. Just like with a German car, it is really a good idea to have Miele vacuums serviced on a regular basis (Good job, taking your S5 in!). The only thing I seem to recall being an issue with those uprights was the brushroll. The brushroll has a built-in "clutch" mechanism that when you shift the lever on the vacuum from "carpet" to "bare floor", it physically pushes the belt onto a free-spinning part of the brushroll, which is disconnected from the actual brush part of the brushroll. So the belt is able to still spin, but the brushroll stops. If that makes sense. The problem they were having was hair and other debris, over time, got inside "between the cracks" and bound the two pieces together, resulting in the brushroll continuing to spin even when you put the cleaner into bare floor mode.

So -- if you're only looking to use this cleaner on carpets, then it would be a non-issue for you. (You probably wouldn't ever switch it to "bare floor"). Same goes if you're only looking to get this vacuum as a "spare" where it's not going to see quite as much use as the S-5.

Ooh, I love this "edit my post" feature! I forgot to say the "discontinued" uprights were actually manufactured for Miele overseas, by Panasonic. Their new uprights are made in-house, in Germany. The overall quality is still high, but not quite as high as the in-house-built Mieles. I would say that the difference in fit and finish is noticeable, though.

Another option for you, if you're looking to get better carpet cleaning performance, would be to upgrade to the SEB-236 powerhead that has the height-adjustment and fluorescent light. I have one for my Miele that I bought a few years after having only the 217 powerhead... which just wasn't cutting it anymore. So I bit the bullet and upgraded. I'm not sure if you have the "direct connect" wands or if your powerhead has the external pigtail cord... but either way, I think a 236 is adaptable to work either way.

Mieles are great vacuums. Expensive, but great. Out of all of the cleaners in my collection, I find myself grabbing and using the Miele more than any of my other machines. I love how quiet is is, how powerful it is, and how simple it is to use. I also have one of the "quick-broom" models (that my 217 powerhead now resides on).

I hope I've answered your question(s)! Let me know if you have any more, or need any clarification on what I've written above.

You should also inquire at your Miele dealer if they have a loaner-vacuum program that you may be able to take advantage of while yours is being serviced. Again, in NC, we did just that. If you needed a vacuum and yours was going to be in for service for more than a few days, they'd send you home with a loaner. At the same time, most Miele repairs only had a 24-48 hour turn-around time.



~Fred

Here's a photo of my Miele from a few years ago, before I got the 236 powerhead...[this post was last edited: 5/2/2010-10:49]

 

[passatdoc]

ps

I checked Miele's German site and could not even find an upright model (not surprising). However, several online reviewers by purchasers noted that the S183 was "made in Germany", another assurance of at least reasonable quality in my mind.

 

[passatdoc]

@ HooverWheelAway

Thanks for the sage advice!

I looked into the upgraded powerhead, but it costs as much as the S183 upright!!! So at that price, better to have a spare that must do a better job on carpet than what I have now.

Thank you for the advice re: loaner. I went to the store where I would service it and they did not MENTION a loaner program but maybe I didn't ask!

Some of the reviews I read said that the S183 did not have a headlight, but if not, that isn't a dealbreaker. My current S-217 powerhead doesn't have a headlight, either. I generally don't vacuum in the dark, anyway!!

What I sensed here was a chance for a durable machine (within the limits of its design) from a quality manufacturer at a rare discounted price. Go Vacuum and several other vendors are using Amazon to sell it at $229.

 

[hooverwheelaway]

I'm pretty sure that's incorrect. Re-read my "edited" post! I slipped a line in about where they were built.

 

[hooverwheelaway]

Oh, you're right.. The dark blue one doesn't have a headlight or variable speed motor. The model that has those features is white. It's been a while since I've thought about these! Now it's all coming back to me. I think the white one with the extra features also has a longer cord.

~F

 

[aamassther]

It's my understanding from talking to my Miele dealer, that the older series were Panasonic made. The new series are German, made by Miele. Friend just bought a "Tango", nice machine.

 

[panthera]

SEB-236

I have one and it is worth every single solitary penny.
Seriously. It is the only powerhead I have ever had in my entire life which cleans even multi-height carpet made of nylon well.

Buy one used - I got mine with all the tools and the Blue Moon for $17 dollars at the Goodwill - most Americans still don't know what Miele is, thank the gods.

By the by, we do have wall to wall carpet here in Europe, too.
It is, however, not in fashion right now. These things come and go, who knows why.

Before you invest money, however, I would have that powerhead checked. The brushes wear, compared to Hoover, fairly quickly. Perhaps it just doesn't have enough brush left to clean?

 

[petek]

I've not much experience with those new Miele uprights other than having a go with one at Chads store last year. I found it a tad heavy to hold up though it steers great and it's almost as good as selfpropelled on short pile carpet. It didn't fare as well on thick plush carpet though, it needed a determined push. The cost of bags is high as well.
Personally I would just get a Panasonic, they're one of my faves. I have a lot of them and hardly paid anything for any of them. Find a lot at thrift stores etc. Here's a trio of them

 

[passatdoc]

@hooverwheelaway, panthera, et. al.

My Miele has the direct-connect power wand. When it was purchased for me by my parents, it was called the "Monte Verde" model and was one notch below the TOL Blue Moon. The handle has an on-off switch for the powerhead, but does not control on-off or speed. The Blue Moon (at least in 2002) had on-off and speed controls in its power wand, and that was only difference between Blue Moon and Monte Verde. Monte Verde has foot-operated + and - switches for speed control, plus foot-operated on-off and cord retraction switches. The closest current model sold is the Miele Earth, with foot operated + and - controls, and the direct connect power wand does not have speed controls, only (I think) a powerhead on-off switch.

I do not recall that the 238 powerhead with variable height control was available on either model at that time. (the store where my parents bought is pretty high pressure and if there had been an upgraded power head, they would have pushed my folks pretty hard to get it).

I went back to the review I found about the S183 and it said it was "assembled in Germany". Hmmmm....either Panasonic had a plant in Germany, or else Panasonic made the parts and Miele assembled them? In any case, it's hard for me to believe that Miele would put its name/reputation on a bad product. They may be overpriced in some cases, but they are rarely if ever of poor quality.

panthera, good idea re: having the brushes on the powerhead checked. The store earlier advised just to bring in the body and they could service it without the wand or powerhead, but maybe they ought to have a look at the brushes. So I'll bring the wand and brushes too when it's serviced. There may be belts in the powerhead as well that are replaceable. AMAZING to find a Blue Moon at a thrift store for under $20. Instead of $1000.

The reason I sensed that the Miele was not cutting it on carpet was that I had the carpets cleaned last weekend. During the pre-clean vacuuming (granted, done with an industrial-power upright vac, by the cleaning service), I could hear a lot of dirt being sucked up that the Miele didn't pick up earlier in the day when I had vacuumed in preparation for the cleaners.

So at first I thought I would upgrade the powerhead. But, i don't know if any stores give you a money-back trial on the better powerhead, plus when I saw the discontinued Miele S183 at a price LOWER than the 238 powerhead, I thought, "if the machine is any good, better to have a backup unit anyway, even if the only thing it does well is clean carpets".

Anyway, based on your positive feedback, I decided to buy the S183 and give it a try. And I'll be lurking in those thrift stores looking for an SE-238 powerhead, too!![this post was last edited: 5/2/2010-15:34]

 

[panthera]

Jim,

I'm here, the powerhead is there, but I believe it has integrated height level adjustment with indicator. I'll ask my darlin' to check - perhaps I'm wrong? It is a Blue Moon in any case and it does have the power control and on/off in the handle.
Very convenient.

One other thing to check - my Miele here in Germany as well as the Blue Moon has about a million, zillion filters stuck in all over the place, HEPA actually means something with a Miele, in contrast to most companies who only pretend to meet the standards. The Blue Moon will cycle down and warn you with most filters but the motor protection filter behind the replaceable non-woven motor protection filter will lead to a random cut-out...and radically lowered vacum efficiency.

If I were you, not only would I have that powerhead checked, I'd also have belts and filters and airways checked against the instruction manual.

Oh, you do know that Miele and Wolf and the other certified bags are enormously cheaper here than in the US, right?

 

[passatdoc]

good point

I have replaced the HEPA filter at regular intervals. My Miele Monte Verde came with a non-HEPA filter which I had to upgrade for $50 extra. The S183 is also HEPA-equipped and comes with one installed.That was another attraction of the S183 for me.

Excellent point about the motor filter. Yes, I have had a couple of unexplained shut downs. Maybe that and/or worn brushes on the powerhead explain the loss of efficiency, but to be honest, I can't tell if it was gradual or maybe it was always like this. When something deteriorates slowly, it's hard to tell.

I went ahead and ordered the S183. Free shipping and no sales tax. When it arrives, I'll take the Monte Verde to the shop and see what's what. They offer a roughly $100 "periodic maintenance" which includes replacing all routine filters other than the HEPA, lubricating, gazillion-point inspections, etc.

I am aware that Miele bags are cheaper in Germany. In the past, most of my "souvenir shopping" takes place at a market, e.g. Rewe or Aldi: Persil (da weiss man, was man hat...), Lindt chocolate bars, Knorr soup mixes (1/3 the US price), spaetzle, and Tchibo coffee. Not sure if a Rewe would carry vacuum bags, and I don't want my hosts to go to any trouble carting me around to a specialty shop. 3M makes Miele replacement bags (sold on Amazon) which are cheaper, like $12 for 5 instead of $18 for FOUR (almost $5 a bag!). When they redid the FJM bag and added red plastic with the flapper instead of the cardboard inserts, they raise the price and dropped from five bags to only four per box. I am thinking of buying a box of the 3M bags to try.

However, bringing back FJM bags from the next trip to Germany would make sense, as they weigh very little. I usually travel with a large wheeled duffel that is ok for bulky things as long as they are light in weight. The Persil usually goes in my cabin luggage since they never seem to weigh those bags as long as they meet size regulations.

PS are Miele FJM bags called "FJM bags" in Germany? Or do they carry a different designation? US markets still carry bags for common brands like Hoover. Does Rewe carry Miele bags?[this post was last edited: 5/2/2010-15:57]

 

[panthera]

Another possibility

Miele uses springy contacts within the handle to carry both the 120V and the logic. These contacts are silver plated (at least on the Blue Moon) and oxidise as get dirty over time. It is an unusual weakness for Miele.
It't not hard to take apart and check-clean. Be sure the spring wire that clips in at the bottom of the handle (static discharge as well as friction fit) is put back in the right way...not that I ever do it wrong...
I am glad you posted here, can't see why not.

 

[panthera]

Schlecker and Rossman carry Miele bags (Wolf)

As well as a new brand I am trying out. It claims to meet Miele standards and so far, so good.
All have dropped to 4 instead of 5 and the filters are now sometimes cut out and fit.
But yes, much cheaper than in the US.

 

[whirlcool]

We have a Miele S5 series with the S213 powerhead and it does a remarkable job cleaning our rather deep pile carpet. You can hear all the stuff going up the tube, and the carpet looks magnificent when done being vacuumed. And we have TONS of dog hair to boot. We purchased it in 2004.

One thing we found with the Miele vacs is that the powerheads do need some maintenance. In the instruction manual there is a procedure for "reversing" your rollerbrush when it starts to get worn. (You flip the white end tabs 180 degrees and put them back in that way). We have already replaced the roller brush once, not too bad $35.00 at the Miele dealer. You may want to check your powerhead for this.

We also use the "generic" FJM bags by Environcare. They work just as good as the Miele bags do, however the Environcare HEPA filter does NOT work nearly as good as the Miele brand one.

And also, do not use the powerhead on hard floors. There is a warning in the manual that this could be hard on the powerhead. Use the supplied hard floor brush instead.

We love our Miele and will have it forever.

 

[panthera]

I use the Turbobürste

On the hard floor when there's a lot to clean up. It works really well and is also just fine for the occasional throw rug or wood-slate mat which the powerhead would tear up.

I think it is because the Mieles last forever that we occasionally forget that without routine maintanence their performance needs must decrease.

Wonderful vacuums. I really regret that Miele in the US is so enormously more expensive than here - if I hadn't found that Blue Moon for $17, I could never have afforded one in the US.

 

[passatdoc]

panthera: are Mieles more moderately priced in Germany?

whirlcool: thanks for the advice re: powerhead maintenance. Although the shop said just to bring the vacuum itself without attachments, I will bring the direct-connect wand and the powerhead. Maybe it's not all in my head, maybe the cleaning ability is slowing down and can be partly to fully restored.

 

[panthera]

Yes

Miele vacuums are cheaper here. The closer to the high-end you get, the smaller the price difference, of course - you pay through the nose for top of the line Miele.
Middle of the line and (to the extent any Miele can be BOL) are priced, however, to compete with other brands.

The thinking in central Europe is different. Many people of moderate income here would rather buy a Miele once, knowing they will have it for fifteen years, at least than to buy four cheap POS from China. We don't move house every five years.

This means, Miele here is seen as high quality not as prestige.

After classes today, I'll try to dig up some current prices.

 

[passatdoc]

My parents have a two story home: one story is mostly carpet, except for bathroom floor tiles, and the other story is all tile. They have a trusty Hoover upright for the carpeted areas, but needed a new vacuum for hard floor for the other story. We selected an Electrolux Ultra Silencer Green from Lowes, amazing value for $300. Its only shortcoming is that in base form there is no powerhead, only a turbobrush, so carpet cleaning is so-so. However, for their needs (tile floors, dusting, crevices) it's fine, and it's basically a "downstairs" vacuum, with the Hoover being their "upstairs vacuum". There is a $500 version with a powerhead that seems to get excellent reviews, which might be a better choice for someone with carpet. However, if my S5 ever died, given my investment in Miele accessories, I'd probably have to look at least at their mid-range canniseters like the S2000 series.