WEHT "Washer Protection Agents"

[launderess]

Now that the push seems to be towards liquid or gel detergents for both automatic dishwashing and laundry, one wondered what ever happened to washer protection chemicals?

From what one has seen of liquid detergent contents, there isn't much there to prevent corrosion. In times past sodium silicate along with several other substances were the chemical of choice, so what is going on?

Will washing machine parts suffer premature death?

 

[roscoe62]

Can be anyone's guess? The key to this would be to see how many of us actually use the liquid detergents on a regular basis and notice if they are encountering problems with their machines ahead of us who prefer the powdered form.
I switched to a powder in both the laundry & dishwasher.I had way too many problems with suds lock and rinsing issues, and end up using more water than I would normally with the old TL'r to do a load of laundry.
I have tried every liquid on the market with no success,I have no luck using them, so I have had to make my peace with it, the liquids and gels don't work for me.
A teaspoon of liquid detergent, yes TIDE HE, I will say it,in a load with eight large towels,warm wash water, and then a suds lock and two hours later still rinsing, leaving you so frustrated ,and compelled at this point ,to take off all your clothes and feed yourself to a pack of coyotes rather than return to the scene of the laundry room, no I don't think so.
I'll take the box of powdered detergent for peace of mind,Thanks,whether it eats the washers parts or kills them instantly,who knows, sooner or later something will fail, it is a machine used on a daily basis in most circumstances.
Lots of luck to you liquid users, .

 

[toploader55]

Laundress...

Now that you mention it, I do remember as a youngster reading the specs on a Box of Cascade. And I do remember reading about Sodium Silicate and I think one more other ingrediant that Cascade specified as a "Lubricant" and Protection for the Pump and other Parts.
So... with the life expectancy of 6-7 years on most Junk , I mean appliances these days, who knows... Maybe there is a payoff involved from the Manufactures to the producers of Detergents NOT to add those ingrediants so it shortens the life of the machine even faster. It's Win-Win. Poor Quality Soap means you use more, and without the protectants, the Machine dies Faster. Perfect Formula for these days and times.

 

[jerrod6]

Never seemed to be any need for special washer cleaner or clean washer cycle, until liquids came alone.  Many are washing in cold/cool  water so I am not sure which one of these, if not both, may be responsible for the need for cleaners and clean washer cycles.  Repeated use of liquids just seem to gunk up the machine, so I limit my use of liquid detergents and only use them  for darks ,delicates, or gym apparel.

 

Interesting  and sad that the detergents don't contain protection anymore, of course then the detergent makers get to sell another product for this purpose.

 

[whirlcool]

 I observed this not too long after manufacturers started pushing liquid detergents. Our WP TL machine developed a bad odor to it a few months after we switched to liquid detergent. And nothing in this house gets washed in cold water. We use either hot or warm wash water.

 After cleaning the washer out and removing the odors we switched back to powdered detergent only. No more smells etc.

 

Have you ever had liquid detergent get on your fingers? How long does it take to rinse it off? See what I mean.

 

[appnut]

Personally, I think the American public has been sold a bill of goods and down the river with all the "hype" about liquids.  That and so much cold water washing. 

 

[jerrod6]

Liquids being pushed

Do a Google search on  "WSJ Aug 19 2010 Procter and Gamble Brazil", or just search "Wall street Journal Proctor and Gamble Brazil."  I remember reading this while having breakfast.

 

You'll get the idea.

 

[ronhic]

Bob....

....it certainly sounds like it....

 

It would be interesting to find out if the issues that people have been having with their machines such as smells, mould, gunking up etc. correlates with the increase in usage of liquids in conjunction with softeners.

 

My guess is that it will....

 

It's a drum I've beaten on here for some time now, that I don't like liquids and I don't use conditioners. I also rarely wash in cold water too....and I'd never heard of anyone having a 'smelly washer' until I joined this forum.

 

So my unsolicited advice to everyone is to ditch the liquids and find a good powder you like. I believe they are less messy too. Powder spills you can hoover up or brush off, liquid is a sod to get off the floor and you have to wash the item if you spill any on anything else.

 

[mayguy]

Spills

I agree about the mess a liquid would make if you spilled!

A co-worker was telling me about his mess, and I was thinking, "Wow, I'm soo glad I use powdered instead of liquid!"

 

[miele_ge]

old Wisk used to be like that

Mom used to use it to treat collars and such.  She would do it on the top of the washer and it was a b*tch to get that stuff off the top of the machine!

 

Now she is using Persil in her GE front loader and has no need for additives.  She's come a long way baby!  And she will be 81 this year.  I call her Sophia .    When she ticks me off i just say in a low voice "Shady Pines Ma, Shady Pines"  LOL

 

[ronhic]

has no need for additives

Glad she likes Persil...I love it and covet the small stash I have here.....mainly for the scent rather than the cleaning power as locally made (New Zealand) Omomatic and Drivematic are its' equal here, and made by the same firm - Levers...

 

I mentioned to my mother, little Miss 70, how much North Americans use chlorine bleach. To say she was gob-smacked was an understatement. She grabbed the dusty bleach bottle from under the laundry tub and exclaimed 'I don't think I've used more than a cup of this in the last 20 years and now that everything has enzymes in it, you can't even buy let alone need Bio-Ad anymore'

 

Nappies/Diapers were the only thing I thought she may have used it for, but seems not....she soaked in detergent solution, drained, hot washed and then sun-dried...

 

....I proceeded to pour the bleach down the toilet

 

[3beltwesty]

SHELF SPACE

In retailing like grocery stores and Walmart; shelf space has a price. Liquids take up less shelf space thus make a better less bulky product to sell.

 

[ronhic]

Liquids take up less shelf space thus make a better less bul

Well, that may be the case in some respects, but most of the powders here have gone 'super concentrate'. Most 2kg (4.5lb) boxes yield at least 40 washes per box at the normal dose and significantly more for lightly soiled loads (60-80) and they're easier to stack too, taking up less shelf space than liquids which can't be stacked....

 

...not to mention better to handle in the home with spills that can be bushed up/off...

 

[3beltwesty]

Old ALL in powder form was a super concentrate in the USA ev

Old ALL in powder form was a super concentrate in the USA even 60 years ago. It was the low sudsing soap for Westinghouse FL washers in the l1te 1940's and 1950's even.

With TL washers, the average buyer here equated bigger is better, thus a soap with filler was once quite normal. Folks bought based on volume of the box and ignored tbe "number of loads". Thus up to the early 1990's, ALL detergent was this dink box we FL buyers bought, it was 1/4 the volume of the normal brands hawked for TL washers. Many folks with a TL washer would not buy all; since one "did not get as much" volume.

In the USA it really was not until the resurgance ofg FL washers in the 1990's that super concentrates got accepted by the average buyer, they wanted more volume not just weight! A box o0f ALL in 1980 was small and heavy; the others were 2 to 3 times more in volume due to fluff and fillers.

 

[ronhic]

ahhh

Our powders have progressively become more compact over the last 15 years or so, but none that I can remember were dosed at more than 1 cup....this progressively reduced to 3/4cup and now, the scoop is about 40grams or about 1 heaped tablespoon...

 

[appnut]

A 3B all user

Back when it was on the market in the late 1960s or early 1970s.  And we measured because you did use less. 

 

[roscoe62]

I alternate between Tide HE, Sears HE,and Persils Powders and I only use one to two tablespoons per load max and everything is clean no suds or rinse issues.This is were I believe the confusion comes in with those new to HE laundry they are use to overdosing from a top load with lots of water and not aware of it until they have to start using less product to get clean results, if your machine uses 40 to 50 % less water than the conventional why would one use the same amount of detergent??
I no longer use liquids, they don't work for me I've made my peace with it, if powders didn't work they would have gone by now with the intro to liquids.The earliest I can remember a liquid laundry detergent was back between 1978 to 1980 when we were introduced to Wisk because powders were as the commercial said, passe'.
Passe my a--, we no longer see Wisk here in our market. I have contacted P&G endlessly about their liquids, their response has been they are aware of it and working on it, I say good luck to you, leave the freak'n powders alone!!!Please???

 

[launderess]

Wisk's

Claim to fame was it's ability, as is common with other liquid detergents/pre-treaters, to deal with oil, fat, and other such lipid soils better than powders.

Then and now most powdered detergents have washing soda and other alkaline substances as their base. One was advised to make a paste of powdered detergent and water, apply to a stained area (such as collar soil), rub, scrub, and or wait, then launder. Even with all this results at the time weren't always great. Hence the Wisk commercials showing a poor housewife trying everything under the sun, but still her husband's shirts had "ring around the collar".

Wisk with it's now famous "Ring Around The Collar" adverts allowed housewives and others to simply apply product, rub a bit, into the wash and that was that. Results were on averge streets ahead of anything else out there at the time.

General advice then and some what applies today is that powdered detergents were best for clay based soils, and liquids for lipids.

The introduction of enzymes across all manner and sort of laundry products has help equalise things.

Still feel some how powdered detergent's days may be numbered. Shops around here, including K-Sears are shelves upon shelves of liquid detergents. What powders there are at the bottom.

Will be interesting to see what P&G has done with their new "compact" powders. Until now Tide powders have pretty much been the red headed step-child, with liquid detergents having much more complex enzyme and surfactant chemical make-ups.

 

[roscoe62]

@ Launderess
I couldn't agree more, I have seen the shelves, liquids are ruling , but there are a lot of powder users and a market for them,and having so much trouble using liquid I still have a liquid in a dispense bottle for stains and as you said collar gunk, it works great I certainly can't argue.
My problem is if the makers of liquids are aware and know that there are not enough sud suppressors in them,....?
This is why the powder works without issue in my machine. I went to liquid when I bought the Neptune,thinking new machine lets try the liquid version.Now I'm thinking that with these new compact powders on the horizon we could be heading the way you just mentioned, then where do we go?