By Frigidaire???
First time I saw this
First time I saw this
Westinghouse
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Yup.
You can tell by the door, the timer knob, the top plate, the kick plate, the positions of the option knobs...
This is an excellent little machine as long as you never use anything but HE detergent and never, ever never-ever use CL bleach, even tho' the dispenser tray for North America says you may.
You mayn't.
I know of several which have been in constant service for over 10 years without a single problem in the US.
You can tell by the door, the timer knob, the top plate, the kick plate, the positions of the option knobs...
This is an excellent little machine as long as you never use anything but HE detergent and never, ever never-ever use CL bleach, even tho' the dispenser tray for North America says you may.
You mayn't.
I know of several which have been in constant service for over 10 years without a single problem in the US.
Hi, Keven---Why do you recommend not using bleach in this washer? I had the first issue of this washer (1996--Frigidaire brand) and used liquid chlorine bleach in it all the time. My current washer is the same machine but with rear-panel controls and I use bleach at least 3-4 times a week. It's almost 8 years old now, and no problems. No mold, either.
I thought...
...you couldn't use bleach in washers that had significant internal heaters, such as ones that heat to 95C/203F, because they will cause H2 to be produced which is explosive.
Does this one even have an internal heater?
...you couldn't use bleach in washers that had significant internal heaters, such as ones that heat to 95C/203F, because they will cause H2 to be produced which is explosive.
Does this one even have an internal heater?
Hi back!
I can't find the thread, probably was on this forum so not archived, but we had a long discussion on this problem two years ago or so.
Basically, these otherwise excellent washers, are internally still designed for the European market.
Except for the rarest of cases, the only Europeans to use chlorine bleach at all are in the UK - and they don't use it anywhere near as often as do the Americans.
So the spider which holds the drum is made out of an aluminum alloy which is just fine for HE detergents and oxygen bleaches. The hottest water doesn't bother it, nor does constant use. But chlorine bleach eats through it very quickly.
Same with detergents which suds up - the drum bearing is not sealed against such high sudsing detergents (no reason to in Europe) and so it fails very quickly. Causes the mounting screws from the drum to drag against the plastic tub which fails and you have water everywhere.
I did find this page and video on the problem, including Whirlpool actually acknowledging that it exists! Imagine that!
I can't find the thread, probably was on this forum so not archived, but we had a long discussion on this problem two years ago or so.
Basically, these otherwise excellent washers, are internally still designed for the European market.
Except for the rarest of cases, the only Europeans to use chlorine bleach at all are in the UK - and they don't use it anywhere near as often as do the Americans.
So the spider which holds the drum is made out of an aluminum alloy which is just fine for HE detergents and oxygen bleaches. The hottest water doesn't bother it, nor does constant use. But chlorine bleach eats through it very quickly.
Same with detergents which suds up - the drum bearing is not sealed against such high sudsing detergents (no reason to in Europe) and so it fails very quickly. Causes the mounting screws from the drum to drag against the plastic tub which fails and you have water everywhere.
I did find this page and video on the problem, including Whirlpool actually acknowledging that it exists! Imagine that!
By all means, watch the video
I also note that Electrolux claims they switched to a different alloy in 2004. Hmm. Given that as late as 2007 B'Lowe's was still selling models built prior to that, I'd be very very careful with that.
Hunter, there you go again with natural laws. Those bubbles just add that touch of effervescence and random excitement to the party - sort of like Lawrence Welk turning on the bubble machine or making the fatal mistake of giving a true answer when your spouse asks if this dress makes her look fat.
Or him, given the temperament of some bears I know...
I also note that Electrolux claims they switched to a different alloy in 2004. Hmm. Given that as late as 2007 B'Lowe's was still selling models built prior to that, I'd be very very careful with that.
Hunter, there you go again with natural laws. Those bubbles just add that touch of effervescence and random excitement to the party - sort of like Lawrence Welk turning on the bubble machine or making the fatal mistake of giving a true answer when your spouse asks if this dress makes her look fat.
Or him, given the temperament of some bears I know...
wow!
So what about the Whirlpool front loaders with internal heaters that are German made? Do they have this problem?
(I still keep asking myself, WHY do Americans put up with such garbage for appliances, small and large. I'm NOT saying this is a bad washer -- but I think about the sophistication of the euro stuff I have seen and it far beats most of what we've got. Of course, Americans all believe that domestic chores have no value at all so perhaps that is why?)
So what about the Whirlpool front loaders with internal heaters that are German made? Do they have this problem?
(I still keep asking myself, WHY do Americans put up with such garbage for appliances, small and large. I'm NOT saying this is a bad washer -- but I think about the sophistication of the euro stuff I have seen and it far beats most of what we've got. Of course, Americans all believe that domestic chores have no value at all so perhaps that is why?)
NO,
because they write on every single slip of paper, the loading drawer and on the guarantee card that if you use Cl in them, your warranty is void and if you blow up and go boom, it's your own damn fault.
We don't protect people from their own idiocy here in Europe. If your too D-U-M dumb to read the instructions and fall into a hole in the street (so to speak) that's your problem, not the manufacturer's responsibility. My LG in Europe doesn't even cut the water to the dispenser drawer when you pull it open. That's my job.
But, yes, back when Americans lived here by the hundreds of thousands, it was a common problem and Miele and AEG were very good about repairing these things, once. It was the pumps and constant velocity heaters which went on those, everything else was pretty much already stainless steel or polypropylene.
because they write on every single slip of paper, the loading drawer and on the guarantee card that if you use Cl in them, your warranty is void and if you blow up and go boom, it's your own damn fault.
We don't protect people from their own idiocy here in Europe. If your too D-U-M dumb to read the instructions and fall into a hole in the street (so to speak) that's your problem, not the manufacturer's responsibility. My LG in Europe doesn't even cut the water to the dispenser drawer when you pull it open. That's my job.
But, yes, back when Americans lived here by the hundreds of thousands, it was a common problem and Miele and AEG were very good about repairing these things, once. It was the pumps and constant velocity heaters which went on those, everything else was pretty much already stainless steel or polypropylene.
toggleswitch2
Well-known member
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We-stink-house
Interesting.
WCI- White Consolidated Industries (who badged their appliances White-Westinghouse in the 70s) included the brand names Frigidaire and Westinghouse and so many others.
Interesting to see if Electrolux can resurrect more brand names.
I find it interesitng also that the American manufacturers, in their thirst for more market-share, swallowed up other smaller brand names at huge costs and now we have only GE and Whirlpool at the helm of ot all domestically. In the long-run, what they have managed to do is open the floodgates to foreign/imported brand and competiton and now they will have to re-think what quality, features and reliability are defined as once the North-American consumer is innundated with more options.
Interesting.
WCI- White Consolidated Industries (who badged their appliances White-Westinghouse in the 70s) included the brand names Frigidaire and Westinghouse and so many others.
Interesting to see if Electrolux can resurrect more brand names.
I find it interesitng also that the American manufacturers, in their thirst for more market-share, swallowed up other smaller brand names at huge costs and now we have only GE and Whirlpool at the helm of ot all domestically. In the long-run, what they have managed to do is open the floodgates to foreign/imported brand and competiton and now they will have to re-think what quality, features and reliability are defined as once the North-American consumer is innundated with more options.
Ah, Toggles,
surely, you jest.
Until this generation of American managers is gone, there will be no thought, no reflection. Just look at the mess Chrysler and FIAT are making of things, the stupidity of GM (a company I am sympathetic to) and the way the banking industry has gone back to their old ways as if nothing had happened.
What American companies have not grasped is that even if the US is still the world's foremost economy, there is no one single branch left in the US which can't be taken on and conquered by the EC, not to mention China.
We saw how fast all those true-blue Dixie Republicans caved when VW, BMW and Toyota offered them money to build their 'forern' cars in their super Red states...
No, neither Whirlpool nor GE will learn. It wasn't until the Bauknecht group was costing Whirlpool more money for repairs in warranty than profit that Whirlpool finally upped quality back to minimally acceptable levels...and lost two whole generations of loyal market share doing it. People in my age group and the folks younger than me will never, ever under any circumstances regard Whirlpool anything in Europe as a serious investment, just as throw-away junk.
surely, you jest.
Until this generation of American managers is gone, there will be no thought, no reflection. Just look at the mess Chrysler and FIAT are making of things, the stupidity of GM (a company I am sympathetic to) and the way the banking industry has gone back to their old ways as if nothing had happened.
What American companies have not grasped is that even if the US is still the world's foremost economy, there is no one single branch left in the US which can't be taken on and conquered by the EC, not to mention China.
We saw how fast all those true-blue Dixie Republicans caved when VW, BMW and Toyota offered them money to build their 'forern' cars in their super Red states...
No, neither Whirlpool nor GE will learn. It wasn't until the Bauknecht group was costing Whirlpool more money for repairs in warranty than profit that Whirlpool finally upped quality back to minimally acceptable levels...and lost two whole generations of loyal market share doing it. People in my age group and the folks younger than me will never, ever under any circumstances regard Whirlpool anything in Europe as a serious investment, just as throw-away junk.
Aluminum can be corroded by chlorine.
However, stainless steel can also be corroded by chlorine. Home brewers have found that cleaning/disinfecting stainless brewing tanks with chlorine bleach can lead to later leaks. This is because droplets of a diluted bleach solution can evaporate, leaving an increasingly concentrated droplet of chlorine bleach on the surface. The one Achilles heel of stainless steel is attack from chlorine atoms. The concentrated bleach droplet strips away the protective chromium oxide layer on the stainless, which in time can lead to a pinhole leak.
Since many euro washers have stainless outer drums, it's possible that using chlorine bleach can result in later leaks in the outer drum. Most American washers have plastic outer drums, so chlorine bleach would not be a concern in this regard.
However it is also possible the chlorine can attack the sealing surface of the axle shaft that supports the drum. This could lead to eventual fail of that seal, and as soon as wash water reaches the bearing, the grease will be washed away and the bearing will fail soon thereafter. This would happen regardless of the type of drum.
However, stainless steel can also be corroded by chlorine. Home brewers have found that cleaning/disinfecting stainless brewing tanks with chlorine bleach can lead to later leaks. This is because droplets of a diluted bleach solution can evaporate, leaving an increasingly concentrated droplet of chlorine bleach on the surface. The one Achilles heel of stainless steel is attack from chlorine atoms. The concentrated bleach droplet strips away the protective chromium oxide layer on the stainless, which in time can lead to a pinhole leak.
Since many euro washers have stainless outer drums, it's possible that using chlorine bleach can result in later leaks in the outer drum. Most American washers have plastic outer drums, so chlorine bleach would not be a concern in this regard.
However it is also possible the chlorine can attack the sealing surface of the axle shaft that supports the drum. This could lead to eventual fail of that seal, and as soon as wash water reaches the bearing, the grease will be washed away and the bearing will fail soon thereafter. This would happen regardless of the type of drum.
Valid point!
It must be a noted, even many Mieles now have plastic tubs, the era of the stainless steel tub is drawing to a close. Partly, this is a result of cost savings. Mainly, tho', it is because modern balance and suds sensors and electronics coupled with three-phase motors have made it possible to eliminate those enormously heavy weights which gave the tub inertia.
Plastic tubs also insulate fairly well on their own, obviating the need for extra insulation.
Interesting side note, Whirlpool got blasted quite badly in a recent joint European test for the motor mounts on some of their plastic tubs breaking. Some Whirlpool washers did quite well on durability while others broke very early into their post-warranty life.
I would just plain stay away from Chlorine in an non-vintage washer in the US. The Europeans may say their machines are OK with the stuff, but I suspect that is because they are thinking of the UK where it is used far, far less than in the US and Continental Europe, where it is used only a few times over the 15 year life of the machine, if at all. Americans (not talking about us here at AW.org) frequently use chlorine bleach every load.
It must be a noted, even many Mieles now have plastic tubs, the era of the stainless steel tub is drawing to a close. Partly, this is a result of cost savings. Mainly, tho', it is because modern balance and suds sensors and electronics coupled with three-phase motors have made it possible to eliminate those enormously heavy weights which gave the tub inertia.
Plastic tubs also insulate fairly well on their own, obviating the need for extra insulation.
Interesting side note, Whirlpool got blasted quite badly in a recent joint European test for the motor mounts on some of their plastic tubs breaking. Some Whirlpool washers did quite well on durability while others broke very early into their post-warranty life.
I would just plain stay away from Chlorine in an non-vintage washer in the US. The Europeans may say their machines are OK with the stuff, but I suspect that is because they are thinking of the UK where it is used far, far less than in the US and Continental Europe, where it is used only a few times over the 15 year life of the machine, if at all. Americans (not talking about us here at AW.org) frequently use chlorine bleach every load.
Americans frequently use chlorine bleach every load.
They might be using it frequently for whites, but I doubt that many if any use chlorine bleach on colors, unless they like the very faded look.
They might be using it frequently for whites, but I doubt that many if any use chlorine bleach on colors, unless they like the very faded look.
"the only Europeans to use chlorine bleach at all are i
I kmow of no-one who uses chlorine based bleach here in the UK in their front loading machines!!! use of a good powder prevails!!!
We do use a lot of the Domestos type bleaches, and that does state you can use it to "Whiten your Whites" but by soaking in a bucket...
The funny thing is there seems to be more Laundry Addatives appearing on the supermarket shelves by the week, it will be mix your own combinations soon!!!...Lol
I kmow of no-one who uses chlorine based bleach here in the UK in their front loading machines!!! use of a good powder prevails!!!
We do use a lot of the Domestos type bleaches, and that does state you can use it to "Whiten your Whites" but by soaking in a bucket...
The funny thing is there seems to be more Laundry Addatives appearing on the supermarket shelves by the week, it will be mix your own combinations soon!!!...Lol
Mike,
I would not have made the statement had I not personally seen UK relations use chlorine bleach in their front loaders.
Not often and not at all as do many Americans.
It was not an attack!
I would not have made the statement had I not personally seen UK relations use chlorine bleach in their front loaders.
Not often and not at all as do many Americans.
It was not an attack!
Hi Keven, Didnt take it as that, just wanted to clarify for others not from Uk reading it!!!...
Anybodys relatives use "Hypo" straight off the man with the van, who came round with cleaning supplies each week!!! Clear bottle you swapped for a re-fill when empty?? this was a diluted thin bleach, now you did know when that stuff had been used!!!
Anybodys relatives use "Hypo" straight off the man with the van, who came round with cleaning supplies each week!!! Clear bottle you swapped for a re-fill when empty?? this was a diluted thin bleach, now you did know when that stuff had been used!!!
hoover1100
Well-known member
Have only ever known people here to use chlorine bleach for
And for that only very occasionally on the most heavily soiled of dish cloths and perhaps kids white school shirts and the like.
Have never seen anyone use it in their washer, my Mum had a Hoover Performa a few years ago, which had a bleach dispenser, but we would never in our wildest dreams haved used it, mainly because of fears that some residue could be left in the dispenser or elsewhere in the machine that could go onto a coloured load and damage it. I think because it is so rarely used on clothes, people think that even in very diluted quantaties it can bleach every ounce of colour from an item of clothing. I'd suspect that is because it is almost solely used as toilet cleaner and people have bad experiences of it splashing onto clothing neat and ruining it.
I don't know if it's just me but I find oxi-bleach far more effective at stain removal anyway.
And for that only very occasionally on the most heavily soiled of dish cloths and perhaps kids white school shirts and the like.
Have never seen anyone use it in their washer, my Mum had a Hoover Performa a few years ago, which had a bleach dispenser, but we would never in our wildest dreams haved used it, mainly because of fears that some residue could be left in the dispenser or elsewhere in the machine that could go onto a coloured load and damage it. I think because it is so rarely used on clothes, people think that even in very diluted quantaties it can bleach every ounce of colour from an item of clothing. I'd suspect that is because it is almost solely used as toilet cleaner and people have bad experiences of it splashing onto clothing neat and ruining it.
I don't know if it's just me but I find oxi-bleach far more effective at stain removal anyway.
