What does a 'Shredmore' look like?

[pierreandreply4]

canadien kenmore washers

canadien kenmore washer 1 has a view of the wash basket during the 1770 and 1980sorry no view of the tub for the 1988 kenmore washer

 

[yogitunes]

I use the Kitchen Aid large base agitator in all of my direct drive machines...

its designed for medium to low speed agitation.....

yeah right!, I use full speed agitation all the time, never any shredding, no tranny issues, or have yet to bust a coupler.....

your mileage may vary.....

 

[brucelucenta]

I always said that shredmore stuff was a crock!!!

 

[mrcreosote]

Series 80 Super Capacity Plus
Full Load Setting
Slow/Slow Agitator speed
Washing ONLY 3 Jeans

Not only will you see a predetermination of knife-like slices, you will see that they range from tiny/faint to large and cut through.

And you will see clusters of them. Perhaps the jeans got caught and each time the slicing abrasion occurred, it left a small mark, and then on the next agitation stroke, they moved a little and another small mark was made. Perhaps when they are truly stuck, repeated slicing cuts through.

THEORY #3: I forgot to consider another place where relative motion occurs: BETWEEN the Top and Bottom Agitator.

As far as over loading and shredding. Not so. I am 64 years old and have NEVER had a washing machine damage clothes and back in the 60's, they were tiny capacities so you always tried to get as much in a load as possible.
_________________

Regarding circulation:

The Series 80, if lightly loaded and full water level, you will not see circulation at slow agitation speeds. I believe the cloths sink to the bottom. If I increase agitation speed, then I will see circulation at the water top surface. (Did you ever try to wash a large quilt in one of those small machines? Well, I have and they did a good job. The Series 80 would reduce a quilt back into the potholders it was made from.

Also if running low water level and fast agitation it's like piranha's in there. The action is so fierce, I would never consider using those settings.

 

[mrcreosote]

Another comment on their upper screw agitator action:

They use the top "ratcheting" screw/auger agitator to push the cloths down into the bottom reciprocating "radial" agitator.

Not totally unlike the the power feed on a shredder.

So THEORY #3 is gaining "momentum" the auger pushes the clothes into the lower reciprocating agitator. And where the two meet, there is great relative motion as the auger ratchets. However this is not a powered or constrained racheting - if the clothes were jammed, the auger would go along for the ride with the bottom agitator and the machine would not directly rip clothes with actual mechanical force.

Got a lead on a appliance guy that's been doing this all his life. Supposed to be really good. Maybe he has a solution.

 

[yogitunes]

this is going to be one of those 'beat a dead horse' threads.....

there is always a chance that there may be a jagged edge on any given part of the agitator, causing snagging issues....

has anyone considered that, in this example, the material may not be of the best quality......

someone can say 'jean' or 'denim'....but not all are created equal.....

if there was a pair of Carhartt or Calvin Klein.....willing to bet, your not going to see damage in those for a long time.....they would wear out before any machine would do damage...

special finish denim will start to break down the fibers at first wash....chemicals are used to lighten, or soften denim.....at least here in town, denim is dyed all one color, dark blue, special finishes are created once the garment is assembled....

 

[alr2903]

Reply #42,  Is there any chance the jeans in question have come into contact with automobile battery acid or another corrosive ?

 

[brucelucenta]

To blame the washer for the weak spots in the jeans is kind of ridiculous. Most of the places on there look like chemical damage, not physical damage. Most jeans now days are given a chemical bath to make them look aged and older. That weakens the fabric quite a bit. It also makes the jeans last for a much shorter time, thus selling more pairs in a much quicker amount of time. The snag on the back pocket is just that, somehow it was snagged on something. Certainly not agitator damage. Having run a dry cleaners and laundry business for many years, I can tell by looking at a fabric with some degree of certainty what the problem is. The direct drive washers will create more linting and are more aggressive at agitating, but no more than my Frigidaire 1-18 was and it NEVER shredded anything. If a direct drive washing machine is loaded and used properly, there is no problem. Overloading can cause more linting and poor washing, to say nothing of being hard on the machine too.

 

[mrcreosote]

Let me repeat: I have never had a washing machine damage clothes my entire life until I got this Series 80. In fact, when I first saw this damage, I thought that somehow mice or insects were "eating" my clothes.

As far as jeans being worn out. I typically use jeans until the knees tear out. These jeans are nowhere near that stage of wear. As far as the exotic chemicals people are speculating about, we're talking auto hobby here: grease and oil.

I've had the agitator out looking for damage, sharp edges, etc. and everything is in order.

It seems like many different types of agitators damage clothes, so that means a common design issue. The one thing I've seen in common are the slots on the bottom of the fins' bottom at the bottom surface of the agitator.

Old washing machines did not have those slots.

As far as the top auger goes, I removed the ratchet pawls and looked at circulation with clear water. I don't see the need or the auger - the bottom agitator creates a lot of circulation even on slow. I would have liked to remove the auger entirely but that would leave slots and edges exposed from the bottom agitator.

Note on the auger: the leading edge is smoothly ramped in height while the trailing edge has an abrupt 90* end. While there is a radius, this is basically a "sharp" protrusion that could harpoon circulating clothes. In the above, the pic of the what I think is called the "high ramp" agitator shows the auger trailing edge ramping away eliminating the 90* protrusion.

My suspicions are now: 1) fin slots, 2) auger, and 3) 3/4" agitator clearance with bottom of tube (that simply cannot be a good thing.) For now, I'm going to run it w/o the ratchet pawls.

 

[DADoES]

 
<blockquote>It seems like many different types of agitators damage clothes, so that means a common design issue. The one thing I've seen in common are the slots on the bottom of the fins' bottom at the bottom surface of the agitator.

Old washing machines did not have those slots.</blockquote> Not true.  Have you seen Maytags?

 

[jkbff]

DADoES,

I sit and think about the appliances mom had when I was a kid, I can hardly remember them, but I remember that agitator, filter and softener cup. I remember them vividly... We had that washer for as long as I can remember being in the house I grew up in.

When we moved to Texas, mom left the laundry pair in the old house and bought new Neptunes in 2005. She still has the same pair. The Neptunes have lived in Texas, Missouri and North Dakota !

 

[mrcreosote]

The only Maytag I remember and had was the wringer washer. My aunt upgraded to an automatic maybe around 1980? but I don't remember what the agitator looked like. The circulation was impressive and the agitator made fast, short-stroke "twitching" motion. There were no complaints - she liked it.

DADoES, I assume that Maytag agitator pic you posted (thanks!) did not have shredding issues?

Here are some pics of the very differently Series 80 agitator "thick OD edge" AND a pic of my fingers all the way in the gap with the tub.

The tall OD "edge" is not solid and the actual edge is such that it would cut my fingers off if sharp and oscillating.

 

[panthera]

We just got an '83 'Supreme'

up and running. It has the 'super surgilator' (slightly curved vanes on top of a gigantic (guess nowadays one would say 'bigly') washplate.

It most definitely does not shred clothes whereas the late '80s 'corkscrew' monstrosities many of my American relations had did.

I spent time in their laundry rooms. They were not overloaded, they were not filled with cheap clothes, they were not subject to gallons of bleach, they were not stopped and reset to wash at the highest speed/lowest water level for 52 minutes.

 

Whirlpool was fighting the 'bigger is better' wars with machines which simply couldn't be made physically bigger - people were already overjoyed about the 24" as opposed to the 27" size (not that a cylinder could expand further out than the smallest dimension of the cabinet, which is front to back) and the only way to get a too large basket of clothes clean was to make the agitation so aggressive that things ended up getting shredded.

 

I am most definitely not a Whirlpool fan, but to blame the machines for user error is wrong. If you're using a corkscrew agitator, then you need to use a high water level and not fill it full. Soak the clothes longer, use a slower agitation and horror of horrors - how about hot water and phosphates?

 

Still think the cheapest filter-flo is a better cleaner than the best Whirlpool ever made.

 

 

 

 

 

[moparwash]

WOW!

I never though my almost 8 year old post would show up again!... I do have my own 'Shredmore' with the KA agitator added. With proper water level and loading, I never had any shredding, but sometimes towels and jeans will come out twisted.

 

[mrcreosote]

Any comments on that huge gap under the agitator I can get my hand under?

 

[bobbi]

MrCreosote - I can get my fingers under the agitator of my Kenmore 90 series agitator, but only up to the middle finger knuckle. Perhaps your agitator is not completely seated somehow. Not even sure that would be possible?

 

[norgeway]

I hate them

Not only because of the short stroke, but I challenge anyone to find one that does not have a greasy black ring on the agitator at the water line, proof to my way of thinking that for all the thrashing, they don't wash nearly as well as a belt drive.

 

[Chetlaham]

Shredmore

I agree with Panthera, it is not user error IMO. These machines were aggressive on high speed, so much so Sears actually warned its customers not to buy 1 speed machines (been there, lectured that) with Kenmore calling the Normal wash action "Heavy Duty". The arc is much shorter over the belt drives, and if I remember right I am most certain the stokes per minute are far more on DDs. FWIW one has to remember that the original direct drive design was meant for small capacity machines, much like the modern Whirlpool design was originally intended for use on compact machines. Finally, I'd argue the final proof being that modern VMWs have a much longer arc with fewer strokes per minute which from what I have heard are indeed gentler.

..............

Now, on to the agitator gap. I do not know if you have the same problem, but I remember a peculiar never before seen, probably not to be believed experience when my 2004 DD Estate started acting up in 2010. The machine started making a jake brake like grrrrrrrbbbrrrbbbrrrbbrrbbbabububbbub sound when it would stop spinning. A few months of doing this and the machine also gradually began to loose its ability to spin, like a classic clutch problem. I came to notice that a few weeks after the machine started making that noise the inner tub actually began to physically drop. I thought it was my imagination until the spin problem started and I had the ability to actually stick my entire hand underneath the agitator at that point. Also, because this machine drained into a long hose connected to a 8 or 9 ft stand pipe (used to not be the case as the machine was up on plywood and cinder blocks but that was another headache) the outer tub had something like an inch of water in it after each spin. I normally do not see that water, but when the tub dropped I began to see some if it go through the bottom set of hols in the inner tub right beside the agitator base.

Sadly I never bothered dissecting the machine to see what it was or how it happened. I needed a washer and had a DD center dial Maytag delivered in 2 days with the Estate being taken whole. In all honesty I have never seen a DD washer do that or thought it was possible, but the above pic reminds me of just that lol.

 

[tolivac]

As I remember on my Shredmore-there was a vertical skirt extension on its agitator-Triple action-that would prevent things from getting tangled under the agitator.Occasionally get this in my Hotpoint.My Shredmore would still shred things on occasion.When I traded it in to the swap shop on a WP BD Imperial--problem ended.Now my WP leaks like a sieve-can't find where it is.Want to fix and put this machine back to use.

 

[mrcreosote]

I'm like that squirrel pondering a high voltage transfor

...and thinking about getting the Kitchen Aide blue agitator. Trying to find a used appliance "junkyard" locally.

Right now I'm using mine with the 4 ratchet pawls removed because the OD edge of the auger has a large slicing component - and it's a slicing action that cuts the clothes.

Interesting observation about the drum dropping.

Thanks for the insights,
Tom