In removing the fan from my 1961 Westinghouse dryer, it calls for lubrication of the bearing with 'Laundromat Oil'?...would any other lubricant work as well?
What is 'Laundromat Oil'?
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One Assumes The Same As "Ironrite" Oil
Brand name of a type of lubricant but nothing so proprietary it cannot be duplicated or subsituted with something modern. Secret is to find out what type of oil it was then match another product to the application.
Brand name of a type of lubricant but nothing so proprietary it cannot be duplicated or subsituted with something modern. Secret is to find out what type of oil it was then match another product to the application.
Blower bearing oil
Light machine oil is perfect for this, often called turbine oil like the stuff that comes in the plastic Zoom spout plastic bottles. 3In One will also work well as will sewing machine and bicycle oil. This is what the motor itself also uses, fast turning pumps, blower bearings and motors should have a very light oil, never use thick wheel bearing grease on things like this.
Light machine oil is perfect for this, often called turbine oil like the stuff that comes in the plastic Zoom spout plastic bottles. 3In One will also work well as will sewing machine and bicycle oil. This is what the motor itself also uses, fast turning pumps, blower bearings and motors should have a very light oil, never use thick wheel bearing grease on things like this.
arbilab
Well-known member
These days I mostly hear "turbine oil" recommended for such applications. Apparently it is much lower-gum than 3-in-one, which is widely disparaged.
beekeyknee
Well-known member
3 In 1 Oil
Sorry to argue with you John, but 3 In 1 in the red can has detergents in it which can gum up and varnish fast turning shafts. I've experienced this and it's not fun. I've been told that the 3 In 1 in the blue can is ok, but not the red one. The red one is better for things like door hindges and so forth.
Jerry, I'd stick with the Zoom Spout he mentioned earlier. [this post was last edited: 7/15/2012-23:37]
Sorry to argue with you John, but 3 In 1 in the red can has detergents in it which can gum up and varnish fast turning shafts. I've experienced this and it's not fun. I've been told that the 3 In 1 in the blue can is ok, but not the red one. The red one is better for things like door hindges and so forth.
Jerry, I'd stick with the Zoom Spout he mentioned earlier. [this post was last edited: 7/15/2012-23:37]
I agree with Beekeynee, 3 in 1 motor oil in the blue can/bottle, is what i use on our older fans. The red 3 in 1 is appropriate for what is decribed above, tasks most of now use wd40 for. "Laundromat oil" was probably a trademarked light oil for use on the "Westinghouse Laundromat" for whatever needed oiling.
3 In 1 Oil
You guys are correct I should have mentioned that there are two different 3 in 1 oils, I would always use the stuff in the blue can that is labeled for motor bearing use for this type of repair work.
WD-40 is good at freeing stuck stuff but is not much of a lubricant, for things like a squeaky door hinge I would remove the pin and coat it with grease and reinstall or if you don't want to disassemble it use the regular 3 in 1 oil.
You guys are correct I should have mentioned that there are two different 3 in 1 oils, I would always use the stuff in the blue can that is labeled for motor bearing use for this type of repair work.
WD-40 is good at freeing stuck stuff but is not much of a lubricant, for things like a squeaky door hinge I would remove the pin and coat it with grease and reinstall or if you don't want to disassemble it use the regular 3 in 1 oil.
AHHH
Being an embroiderer - Sewing machine oil is extremely light and designed to burn off quickly so that it doesn't set in clothing, washes out quickly. In fact we have to lubricate our hooks twice a day at the shop. I would't use this for bearings ever.
You need "Tufoil"! lasts forever, used in jet engines!
Being an embroiderer - Sewing machine oil is extremely light and designed to burn off quickly so that it doesn't set in clothing, washes out quickly. In fact we have to lubricate our hooks twice a day at the shop. I would't use this for bearings ever.
You need "Tufoil"! lasts forever, used in jet engines!
oil advice is good...
Thanks for the info...I still have to remove the pulley from the fan..the allen screw is stuck...though I did try some med weight oil and it worked for a bit.ill keep you posted!
Thanks for the info...I still have to remove the pulley from the fan..the allen screw is stuck...though I did try some med weight oil and it worked for a bit.ill keep you posted!
"You need "Tufoil"! lasts forever, used in jet e
I've been working on jets for many years and the only oil I've ever seen used in the engines is 2380 turbo oil or Mobile Jet II. I've never even heard of Tufoil. Unless you have specific knowledge of where it's being used in a jet engine, I think someone may be pulling your leg. It happens.
I've been working on jets for many years and the only oil I've ever seen used in the engines is 2380 turbo oil or Mobile Jet II. I've never even heard of Tufoil. Unless you have specific knowledge of where it's being used in a jet engine, I think someone may be pulling your leg. It happens.
Okay David
maybe not Jet plane jet engines, but jet turbo engines:
POWERFLOW LTD
HYDRO ELECTRIC TURBINE SYSTEMS
6th July 1998
Mr. Greg Stringer
Quality Imports
Torbay
Auckland
Dear Greg,
Use of Tufoil in Wairarapa Electricity's Kourarau Hydro plant
Powerflow Ltd were recently commissioned to complete the annual major maintenance at Kourarau 'A' and 'B' hydro stations owned by Wairarapa Electricity. This involved a partial strip down of the 'A' station turbine and bearing maintenance and in 'B' station a shaft and bearing re-alignment.
The Hydro Plant
The plant consists of a 700kW twin jet twin runner Pelton wheel at 'A' station and a 220kW twin jet single runner Pelton wheel at 'B' station. These were installed when the station was built in the early 1920's. Both have large flywheels and direct drive to 3500v alternators. There are four large heavily loaded ring oiler plain white metal bearings to each turbine alternator system ranging in size from 100 to 200mm diameter. The two turbine bearings have their oil reservoirs cooled by copper coils conveying water from the turbine penstock.
As all bearings were being drained, flushed and filled with new oil it was decided to add Industrial Tufoil to all 8 oil reservoirs. It has now been two months since the Tufoil was added and the plants put back online. As most of the bearings are still original from the time of installation and some are getting close to their tolerance limits, it is imperative to keep further wear to a minimum.
Results of Addition of Tufoil
The most dramatic result has been the very significant reduction in bearing temperatures both in the turbine and alternator bearings. Having been familiar with the temperatures prior to the addition of Tufoil at around 30 to 45 degree C, I was extremely surprised when I went back to the plant and found the temperatures had dropped to around 20 to 25 degrees, just barely warm. Our estimates are that we are saving in the order of 2 to 3 kw in bearing friction alone per plant and the subsequent reduction in wear is likely to see the plant perform many more years of faithful service.
Apart from just bearing temperatures there are two characteristics that can indicate a reduction in bearing friction in plants of this size. They are (1) ease with which the plant can be turned over by hand after shutdown and (2) the amount of water required to get the turbine spinning from start-up. In both instances the comments from plant operators have been that the turbines can be turned over more easily by hand and require a much smaller opening of the main needle valves to start the turbines spinning from rest. In the past, 'A' station would require 2 people at least just to move the turbine shaft and now this can be achieved with one person. A similar result has been achieved at 'B' station.
With such a successful result with the turbine and alternator bearings it is now intended that the oil in the hydraulic governors should also be treated with Tufoil and this is anticiped to further reduce maintenance and make significant cost savings. I look forward to being able to report on positive results from the governor treatment and only wish I had taken more specific temperature readings before adding Tufoil so I could have given you exact figures for the temperature reduction.
Yours faithfully,
Powerflow Ltd.
Ashley Grey N.Z.C.E. (Mech)
Project Engineer
maybe not Jet plane jet engines, but jet turbo engines:
POWERFLOW LTD
HYDRO ELECTRIC TURBINE SYSTEMS
6th July 1998
Mr. Greg Stringer
Quality Imports
Torbay
Auckland
Dear Greg,
Use of Tufoil in Wairarapa Electricity's Kourarau Hydro plant
Powerflow Ltd were recently commissioned to complete the annual major maintenance at Kourarau 'A' and 'B' hydro stations owned by Wairarapa Electricity. This involved a partial strip down of the 'A' station turbine and bearing maintenance and in 'B' station a shaft and bearing re-alignment.
The Hydro Plant
The plant consists of a 700kW twin jet twin runner Pelton wheel at 'A' station and a 220kW twin jet single runner Pelton wheel at 'B' station. These were installed when the station was built in the early 1920's. Both have large flywheels and direct drive to 3500v alternators. There are four large heavily loaded ring oiler plain white metal bearings to each turbine alternator system ranging in size from 100 to 200mm diameter. The two turbine bearings have their oil reservoirs cooled by copper coils conveying water from the turbine penstock.
As all bearings were being drained, flushed and filled with new oil it was decided to add Industrial Tufoil to all 8 oil reservoirs. It has now been two months since the Tufoil was added and the plants put back online. As most of the bearings are still original from the time of installation and some are getting close to their tolerance limits, it is imperative to keep further wear to a minimum.
Results of Addition of Tufoil
The most dramatic result has been the very significant reduction in bearing temperatures both in the turbine and alternator bearings. Having been familiar with the temperatures prior to the addition of Tufoil at around 30 to 45 degree C, I was extremely surprised when I went back to the plant and found the temperatures had dropped to around 20 to 25 degrees, just barely warm. Our estimates are that we are saving in the order of 2 to 3 kw in bearing friction alone per plant and the subsequent reduction in wear is likely to see the plant perform many more years of faithful service.
Apart from just bearing temperatures there are two characteristics that can indicate a reduction in bearing friction in plants of this size. They are (1) ease with which the plant can be turned over by hand after shutdown and (2) the amount of water required to get the turbine spinning from start-up. In both instances the comments from plant operators have been that the turbines can be turned over more easily by hand and require a much smaller opening of the main needle valves to start the turbines spinning from rest. In the past, 'A' station would require 2 people at least just to move the turbine shaft and now this can be achieved with one person. A similar result has been achieved at 'B' station.
With such a successful result with the turbine and alternator bearings it is now intended that the oil in the hydraulic governors should also be treated with Tufoil and this is anticiped to further reduce maintenance and make significant cost savings. I look forward to being able to report on positive results from the governor treatment and only wish I had taken more specific temperature readings before adding Tufoil so I could have given you exact figures for the temperature reduction.
Yours faithfully,
Powerflow Ltd.
Ashley Grey N.Z.C.E. (Mech)
Project Engineer
Not for aircraft engines
See below:
'Why shouldn't I use automotive oil in my airplane to take advantage of the more advanced technology?
While it is true that automotive oil is far more advanced than aviation oil, the answer lies in the fact that most aircraft engines are air-cooled while automotive engines are water-cooled. Air-cooled aircraft engines are built with greater clearances and are designed to consume (burn) some oil.
Water-cooled automotive engines are designed and built to much tighter tolerances, so they do not consume much oil. These differences in design tolerances are due to the large temperature differentials that are found in high-continuous-power-output, air-cooled, aircraft engines versus the low- and intermittent-power-output, water-cooled, auto engines.
There can be a 300 degree F temperature difference between the cylinder head and cylinder base in an operating aircraft engine. That kind of temperature differential causes a lot of distortion in the cylinder, necessitating the requirement for large clearances. Automotive engines, being water-cooled, have lower temperature differentials across the engine and thus suffer lower levels of distortion and can be designed and built to tighter tolerances.
Aircraft engines were designed before additives were available and have not really changed much over the years. When ashless dispersant oils were introduced for auto engines, they were also suitable for aircraft engines and eventually were adopted for aviation use.
However, when zinc antiwear and metallic detergents were formulated into auto oils, an important divergence occurred. Aircraft engines burn a fair amount of oil and, if these metal-containing detergents and antiwear compounds are present, they can form metallic ash deposits in the combustion chambers. These deposits can lead to destructive preignition, which could burn holes in the tops of pistons with obvious catastrophic results. For that reason, it was decided that aviation oils were to remain ashless to avoid the risk of metallic deposits.
The benefit of using ashless dispersant oils is, obviously, a cleaner engine. Aircraft engines would also benefit greatly from the addition of other automotive additives such as anti-wear, detergents, and corrosion inhibitors, but the downside is added cost. Ashless versions of these performance additives can cost up to 10 times more than standard ash-containing additives.
What about oil additives with PTFE (Teflon)?
Additives with Teflon resin should not be used in aircraft engines for three reasons;
When oil is burned in the combustion chamber (remember -- aircraft engines burn some oil), the decomposition products are acidic and are extremely corrosive.
The resin is a solid particle held in suspension. In aircraft oil, these resin particles have been found to quickly drop out of suspension and combine with lead salts from leaded fuel. This leads to the formation of a sticky, heavy sludge. This sludge settles throughout the engine, where it can block oil flow.
There is little evidence to show they provide any wear benefit in piston engines.
Editor's Note: Dupont, the developer and maker of Teflon, specifically says that Teflon is not designed for or to be used in engines and that they in no way endorse its use in this manner."
See below:
'Why shouldn't I use automotive oil in my airplane to take advantage of the more advanced technology?
While it is true that automotive oil is far more advanced than aviation oil, the answer lies in the fact that most aircraft engines are air-cooled while automotive engines are water-cooled. Air-cooled aircraft engines are built with greater clearances and are designed to consume (burn) some oil.
Water-cooled automotive engines are designed and built to much tighter tolerances, so they do not consume much oil. These differences in design tolerances are due to the large temperature differentials that are found in high-continuous-power-output, air-cooled, aircraft engines versus the low- and intermittent-power-output, water-cooled, auto engines.
There can be a 300 degree F temperature difference between the cylinder head and cylinder base in an operating aircraft engine. That kind of temperature differential causes a lot of distortion in the cylinder, necessitating the requirement for large clearances. Automotive engines, being water-cooled, have lower temperature differentials across the engine and thus suffer lower levels of distortion and can be designed and built to tighter tolerances.
Aircraft engines were designed before additives were available and have not really changed much over the years. When ashless dispersant oils were introduced for auto engines, they were also suitable for aircraft engines and eventually were adopted for aviation use.
However, when zinc antiwear and metallic detergents were formulated into auto oils, an important divergence occurred. Aircraft engines burn a fair amount of oil and, if these metal-containing detergents and antiwear compounds are present, they can form metallic ash deposits in the combustion chambers. These deposits can lead to destructive preignition, which could burn holes in the tops of pistons with obvious catastrophic results. For that reason, it was decided that aviation oils were to remain ashless to avoid the risk of metallic deposits.
The benefit of using ashless dispersant oils is, obviously, a cleaner engine. Aircraft engines would also benefit greatly from the addition of other automotive additives such as anti-wear, detergents, and corrosion inhibitors, but the downside is added cost. Ashless versions of these performance additives can cost up to 10 times more than standard ash-containing additives.
What about oil additives with PTFE (Teflon)?
Additives with Teflon resin should not be used in aircraft engines for three reasons;
When oil is burned in the combustion chamber (remember -- aircraft engines burn some oil), the decomposition products are acidic and are extremely corrosive.
The resin is a solid particle held in suspension. In aircraft oil, these resin particles have been found to quickly drop out of suspension and combine with lead salts from leaded fuel. This leads to the formation of a sticky, heavy sludge. This sludge settles throughout the engine, where it can block oil flow.
There is little evidence to show they provide any wear benefit in piston engines.
Editor's Note: Dupont, the developer and maker of Teflon, specifically says that Teflon is not designed for or to be used in engines and that they in no way endorse its use in this manner."
My apologies Jon
I didn't realize you were talking about water driven turbines in hydroelectric power plants. That's a different matter entirely, but the way you worded your initial comment, it was an easy mistake to make.
I didn't realize you were talking about water driven turbines in hydroelectric power plants. That's a different matter entirely, but the way you worded your initial comment, it was an easy mistake to make.
No David
I think I had actually heard Jet airplane engine once, I am glad you brought it to my attention! I redug the inter webs and learned a thing.
But I really like this product, it has saved many bearings in its day airplane or not.
I think I had actually heard Jet airplane engine once, I am glad you brought it to my attention! I redug the inter webs and learned a thing.
But I really like this product, it has saved many bearings in its day airplane or not.
