What model Kitchenaid dishwasher is this?
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KA dishwasher
The machine you show is a KDS-21. Production of these machines was started by Hobart in the mid 80's and continued by Whirlpool after they bought the brand in 1986. Eventually this was replaced with the KDS-22 that had more WP influence.
The machine you show is a KDS-21. Production of these machines was started by Hobart in the mid 80's and continued by Whirlpool after they bought the brand in 1986. Eventually this was replaced with the KDS-22 that had more WP influence.
Thanks whirlykenmore78. This particular dishwasher appeared in an online classified site in my home town. I've contacted the poster for more information, but so far have not heard back. They are asking $100, and list in the ad "for quick sale", but I can see the ad has been online for 50+ days. What do you think this dishwasher is worth, and what should I check for if I decide to go and look at it?
Also, is there a guide, either in these forums or somewhere else, which lists the different models of Kitchenaid dishwashers from back before Whirlpool bought them? I keep reading that everyone says the KDS-18 is the best model out there, but why is that? If there was something which had the different models listed, how they were different from each other, and what advantages/disavantages each had, it would help someone like me who is looking to buy their first one. Thanks.
Also, is there a guide, either in these forums or somewhere else, which lists the different models of Kitchenaid dishwashers from back before Whirlpool bought them? I keep reading that everyone says the KDS-18 is the best model out there, but why is that? If there was something which had the different models listed, how they were different from each other, and what advantages/disavantages each had, it would help someone like me who is looking to buy their first one. Thanks.
Kitchenaid info
For The best information pertaining to all things KitchenAid and Hobart you should create a thread asking our Stevet for his assistance. He works for Hobart down in Florida and is a walking encyclopedia about every dishwasher they ever made. He may even see this thread and post something here.
Nick.
For The best information pertaining to all things KitchenAid and Hobart you should create a thread asking our Stevet for his assistance. He works for Hobart down in Florida and is a walking encyclopedia about every dishwasher they ever made. He may even see this thread and post something here.
Nick.
$100 seems kind of steep to me, unless the machine is in next-to-new condition. About a year ago a member here picked up a barely used KDS-21 for $35. Then again, you could easily pay $500 for a brand new machine that won't last a fraction as long as that KDS-21, but will take three times as long to get the dishes done.
Heh
And I still never hear the end of it for letting that damned thing go...
And I still never hear the end of it for letting that damned thing go...
OK, well I'll give Stevet a chance to see this post, and if he doesn't reply, I'll start a new post asking for information. I agree that $100 is a little on the expensive side, again depending on condition. Unfortunately, the ad only contained the one picture, so I only have that to go on for right now. And of course luck would have it that I have gotten sick, so I won't be able to go see it for a few days at least... that is, if it is even still for sale.
The stupid thing is... I could have had what I think was a KDS-18 for free. When my older brother bought his house a number of years ago, a large barn full of all kinds of stuff came with it. In the barn were two old dishwashers: a KDS-18 and an Inglis. Seeing as the Inglis looked in better shape (and had an electronic control panel), I took it home with me to restore, but looking back I guess I should have taken both of them. The Inglis is now my primary dishwasher, replacing a BOL Hotpoint, but it still doesn't clean dishes properly like my parent's older Kitchenaid does (not sure what model it is). So I decided it is time to get me an older Kitchenaid of my own.
The stupid thing is... I could have had what I think was a KDS-18 for free. When my older brother bought his house a number of years ago, a large barn full of all kinds of stuff came with it. In the barn were two old dishwashers: a KDS-18 and an Inglis. Seeing as the Inglis looked in better shape (and had an electronic control panel), I took it home with me to restore, but looking back I guess I should have taken both of them. The Inglis is now my primary dishwasher, replacing a BOL Hotpoint, but it still doesn't clean dishes properly like my parent's older Kitchenaid does (not sure what model it is). So I decided it is time to get me an older Kitchenaid of my own.
stevet
Well-known member
Looking for me?
Barcoboy,
I am sorry to hear that you are feeling under the weather so take care of yourself so you can get well enough to go and get this machine!
To get right to your point, most people on this forum consider the 18 series to be the best dishwasher Hobart ever produced for the home market. I always thought so and used to wish and pray for one to replace my Mom's KDS-15 and KDSS-16 Superbas which we had quickly learned to load so everything would come out clean.And once we were hooked up to the wonderfully soft NYC water, that 16 made everything shine and cleaned really well.
But much to my chagrin, when I asked the KA regional service manager if he had an 18 hanging around that I could maybe refurbish, he immediately said to me, "why do you want that lousy machine when I can give you a 21 series? They are like night and day. The 21 is so much better!"
Well, I did take him up on his offer and got us a basically new KDC21D which had all the cycles and features of the Imperial models. Not a Superba, but probably the next best thing.
Here are some of the pro's that make the 18 such a favorite:
First Kitchenaid machine to feature a washarm under the top rack for truly random and carefree loading. The smaller original washarm was replaced by the now familiar larger sized arm on the 19 series and became the backwards replacement for the 18 arm and rack setup.
Continuation of the Constant Rinse spinner on the roof of the tank which helped remove those annoying yibbles. This disappeared with the 19 series, not to be seen again until the tall tub models came out.
Still had the 180 degree sanitizing heat cycle which went away with the 19 and 20's and came a bit back with the 21 and up machines which I beleive had the 165 sani rinse.
Note: I am talking Superba models here.
The 19 and 21 were essentially the same machines minus the constant rinse. but the 19 did away with the hot air drying,then it reappeared in the 20 but the loss of the plate warming cycle happened with the 19 series never to reappear.
The pumps on these had only a macerator blade to deal with anything that got past the filters and would be more of a soft food disposer and maybe could handle citrus pits and thats about it but nothing better really existed on the market to challenge that.
With the 21 series, you got a somewhat larger pump with a reversing motor to drain the water from the machine. This machine TRULY had a DISPOSER in the pump that was all metal and could handle just about anything that ran in to it. There were still the fine and coarse filters and if something got down in there, it was well taken care of. This disposer also would grind up anything that found its way down there and would send the water into the soil collection chamber to be held until the machine drained out. Clean, filtered water would then be sucked back into the pump and get distributed thoughout the machine.The reversing of the pump motor would then suck the water and debris out of the chamber aided by water jets under the wash arm spraying on to the fine mesh filter screen to wash it clean.
This system was used on the 21 and 22 series and then the 23 series was redesigned with the Whirlpool power module pump which had the soil collection system but did away with the disposer in the pump instead using a less robust design(IMHO).
Any model of the 21 and 22 that wasn't a Superba, had the exposed heating element above the sump which heated the water while it washed and also was used as the drying element. The Superba 21 and 22 retained the sump heater and the classic Heated air blower under the machine which the other models used a plastic blower housing to blow cool room air into the tank to be heated by the element in the tank. Having had both designs, I would personally say it was a draw as to which did the better job. The results were pretty comparable.
I always felt that the 21 and 22's were by design the best cleaning machines ever designed by Hobart and far exceeded what the 18-20's were ever capable of. But any machine in that era will outperform nearly anything else around and you wuld be happy with just about any machine of that vintage. I know some will say that you should avoid the 19s but they cleaned very well too, but had the problem with a totally no heated dry. And given the right set of spare parts and some ingenuity and electrical finesse, that can be made into a hot air unit as well with spectacular results.
I hope this helps and answers some of your concerns
Barcoboy,
I am sorry to hear that you are feeling under the weather so take care of yourself so you can get well enough to go and get this machine!
To get right to your point, most people on this forum consider the 18 series to be the best dishwasher Hobart ever produced for the home market. I always thought so and used to wish and pray for one to replace my Mom's KDS-15 and KDSS-16 Superbas which we had quickly learned to load so everything would come out clean.And once we were hooked up to the wonderfully soft NYC water, that 16 made everything shine and cleaned really well.
But much to my chagrin, when I asked the KA regional service manager if he had an 18 hanging around that I could maybe refurbish, he immediately said to me, "why do you want that lousy machine when I can give you a 21 series? They are like night and day. The 21 is so much better!"
Well, I did take him up on his offer and got us a basically new KDC21D which had all the cycles and features of the Imperial models. Not a Superba, but probably the next best thing.
Here are some of the pro's that make the 18 such a favorite:
First Kitchenaid machine to feature a washarm under the top rack for truly random and carefree loading. The smaller original washarm was replaced by the now familiar larger sized arm on the 19 series and became the backwards replacement for the 18 arm and rack setup.
Continuation of the Constant Rinse spinner on the roof of the tank which helped remove those annoying yibbles. This disappeared with the 19 series, not to be seen again until the tall tub models came out.
Still had the 180 degree sanitizing heat cycle which went away with the 19 and 20's and came a bit back with the 21 and up machines which I beleive had the 165 sani rinse.
Note: I am talking Superba models here.
The 19 and 21 were essentially the same machines minus the constant rinse. but the 19 did away with the hot air drying,then it reappeared in the 20 but the loss of the plate warming cycle happened with the 19 series never to reappear.
The pumps on these had only a macerator blade to deal with anything that got past the filters and would be more of a soft food disposer and maybe could handle citrus pits and thats about it but nothing better really existed on the market to challenge that.
With the 21 series, you got a somewhat larger pump with a reversing motor to drain the water from the machine. This machine TRULY had a DISPOSER in the pump that was all metal and could handle just about anything that ran in to it. There were still the fine and coarse filters and if something got down in there, it was well taken care of. This disposer also would grind up anything that found its way down there and would send the water into the soil collection chamber to be held until the machine drained out. Clean, filtered water would then be sucked back into the pump and get distributed thoughout the machine.The reversing of the pump motor would then suck the water and debris out of the chamber aided by water jets under the wash arm spraying on to the fine mesh filter screen to wash it clean.
This system was used on the 21 and 22 series and then the 23 series was redesigned with the Whirlpool power module pump which had the soil collection system but did away with the disposer in the pump instead using a less robust design(IMHO).
Any model of the 21 and 22 that wasn't a Superba, had the exposed heating element above the sump which heated the water while it washed and also was used as the drying element. The Superba 21 and 22 retained the sump heater and the classic Heated air blower under the machine which the other models used a plastic blower housing to blow cool room air into the tank to be heated by the element in the tank. Having had both designs, I would personally say it was a draw as to which did the better job. The results were pretty comparable.
I always felt that the 21 and 22's were by design the best cleaning machines ever designed by Hobart and far exceeded what the 18-20's were ever capable of. But any machine in that era will outperform nearly anything else around and you wuld be happy with just about any machine of that vintage. I know some will say that you should avoid the 19s but they cleaned very well too, but had the problem with a totally no heated dry. And given the right set of spare parts and some ingenuity and electrical finesse, that can be made into a hot air unit as well with spectacular results.
I hope this helps and answers some of your concerns
bugsyjones
Well-known member
- Joined
- Apr 7, 2009
- Messages
- 581
I'm probably the one who bought the 21 for $35.
It was at the Habitat ReStore. The issue it had was the water inlet valve was shot and I retrofitted one off of another dishwasher. Worked great. She still is running fine and recently, I upgraded the upper rack to the deluxe adjustable model with the wash arm guard.
Tim J.
It was at the Habitat ReStore. The issue it had was the water inlet valve was shot and I retrofitted one off of another dishwasher. Worked great. She still is running fine and recently, I upgraded the upper rack to the deluxe adjustable model with the wash arm guard.
Tim J.
$35 Series 21
BJ, it was actually Nate who I was referring to (see his lament further up). Interestingly, he found his KDS-21 at a Habitat ReStore/SVDP complex, and as I recall that one also had an inlet valve issue, but it may have been as simple as just needing the correct fitting for the supply line.
Steve, thanks for the comparison of the 18-20 series against the 21's & 22's. Just based on looks alone, I prefer the 21 and 22 series Superbas over the 18-20's, particularly the Monterey models with their sleek and timeless control panels.
BJ, it was actually Nate who I was referring to (see his lament further up). Interestingly, he found his KDS-21 at a Habitat ReStore/SVDP complex, and as I recall that one also had an inlet valve issue, but it may have been as simple as just needing the correct fitting for the supply line.
Steve, thanks for the comparison of the 18-20 series against the 21's & 22's. Just based on looks alone, I prefer the 21 and 22 series Superbas over the 18-20's, particularly the Monterey models with their sleek and timeless control panels.
KA 23 Series pump design
The WP Power- Clean Pump is a superior performer to the KD 21 and 22 Hobart designed pumps. On the KD 21s and 22s you still had to clean a messy filter and removable trap to clean by hand and all the final rinse water is exposed to this food waste, most food chunks never got to the disposer. The WP pump has a true disposer blade that grinds chunks of food, fruit pits, kernels of corn, small bits of bone, even broken glass until the particles are less than 3/16" in size and then they go through a centrifugal separator where they are removed from the water stream and held in the separation chamber and flushed away with each drain cycle. The WP PC pump also has the extra fine filter to catch tiny light things like particles of pepper. You will almost never see any food laying in the bottom of one of these DWs and when we work on the pumps on these machines there is never even a thimble full of residue of any kind left in the pump assembly.
All that said the KD 21 and 22 pump assemblies were the best pump and motor combination ever put in a KA home DW. It was very strong and robust and fixable pump, it was Hobart's final and best effort. KA DWs were well designed and very well built machines but they were falling behind by the 1980s and they were losing money, which is why they got sold to WP. By the 80s the WP PC, KM Ultra-Wash , GE Mulit-Orbit and MT DWs were all out performing KA DWs.
KA never got rid of the messy filters, never made a DW that would heat the main wash to a guaranteed temperature, so you had to keep your water heater at 140 and if you ran low on hot water while the machine was running cleaning and drying results suffered. And by the 21 series and later they only had one final rinse, after WP bought KA we were sometimes taking out new KAs and giving the customers new WP power-Clean machines to dissatisfied customers because the KAs did not clean or dry as well as the WPs did.
I do love KA DWs over DW history they are one of the most significant DW builders. I have three KA DWs in my two homes, but I like to be honest about what these great machines can and cannot do.
The WP Power- Clean Pump is a superior performer to the KD 21 and 22 Hobart designed pumps. On the KD 21s and 22s you still had to clean a messy filter and removable trap to clean by hand and all the final rinse water is exposed to this food waste, most food chunks never got to the disposer. The WP pump has a true disposer blade that grinds chunks of food, fruit pits, kernels of corn, small bits of bone, even broken glass until the particles are less than 3/16" in size and then they go through a centrifugal separator where they are removed from the water stream and held in the separation chamber and flushed away with each drain cycle. The WP PC pump also has the extra fine filter to catch tiny light things like particles of pepper. You will almost never see any food laying in the bottom of one of these DWs and when we work on the pumps on these machines there is never even a thimble full of residue of any kind left in the pump assembly.
All that said the KD 21 and 22 pump assemblies were the best pump and motor combination ever put in a KA home DW. It was very strong and robust and fixable pump, it was Hobart's final and best effort. KA DWs were well designed and very well built machines but they were falling behind by the 1980s and they were losing money, which is why they got sold to WP. By the 80s the WP PC, KM Ultra-Wash , GE Mulit-Orbit and MT DWs were all out performing KA DWs.
KA never got rid of the messy filters, never made a DW that would heat the main wash to a guaranteed temperature, so you had to keep your water heater at 140 and if you ran low on hot water while the machine was running cleaning and drying results suffered. And by the 21 series and later they only had one final rinse, after WP bought KA we were sometimes taking out new KAs and giving the customers new WP power-Clean machines to dissatisfied customers because the KAs did not clean or dry as well as the WPs did.
I do love KA DWs over DW history they are one of the most significant DW builders. I have three KA DWs in my two homes, but I like to be honest about what these great machines can and cannot do.
philr
Well-known member
I recently got a KDSC-18 for a friend of mine for 30$. It's in relatively good shape but he doesn't like it that much. He mostly wanted something inexpensive to fill the dishwasher spot in the cabinets in his new house as the even older Inglis Royal that was left in the garage was looking bad... The racks in the Kitchen Aid aren't that bad but could be better and one of the detergent dispensers has a small leak.
firedome
Well-known member
Phil - if that friend
wants to get rid of the KDSC-18 I may need one for camp - we just decided not to go with a compact 18"er in favor of a full size machine. It may just have to go in the closet LOL!
wants to get rid of the KDSC-18 I may need one for camp - we just decided not to go with a compact 18"er in favor of a full size machine. It may just have to go in the closet LOL!
Thanks everyone, especially stevet and combo52 for the information. Still haven't received a reply from the seller... not that I'm in any hurry because I'm still not well enough to go and see it. I've got gout in my knee, and Monday night I experienced some of the worst pain in my life until the medication kicked in.
I did a little searching on this forum, and I think that the dishwasher I let go wasn't a KDS-18, but a KDI-21A. I still should have kept it.
firedome, you beat me to it... I was going to say the same thing to PhilR. I'm around an hour away from him and would gladly drive over and pick it up.
I did a little searching on this forum, and I think that the dishwasher I let go wasn't a KDS-18, but a KDI-21A. I still should have kept it.
firedome, you beat me to it... I was going to say the same thing to PhilR. I'm around an hour away from him and would gladly drive over and pick it up.
philr
Well-known member
Well, I don't think he wants to get rid of it! He just doesn't like it as much as others do... And he got it because it was inexpensive!
