What year is this Kitchenaid dishwasher

[volsboy1]

I am taking out my G.E. dishwasher and going for something different.There is this Old Kitchenaid but I can't tell the year of this model.I want a pre Whirlpool there is this Kitchenaid it looks like the year I am aiming for but it's hard to tell from a pic.I am torn between trying what would be my first euro dishwasher Gaggenau or a older dishwasher.I am having a hard time with what Bob said "FILTER" which would be a problem for me cause I don't even scrape my dishes.There is two of them which I am looking at.Here is one of them I know it don't have much for cycles but for 30 bucks and some steel inserts it would look great..

 

[rp2813]

Could be a KDC-21, which would make it late 80's and which would land it in Whirlpool territory but for the most part it's still a Hobart system.  If it's a KDC-22 it's obviously newer but basically the same machine.  Bottom of the KA line. If you want entirely Hobart, you need to be looking for series 20 or older machines, which have a different panel design and fatter buttons.

 

[henry200]

Yep, that looks like a KDC21.  I have an Imperial 21 and it still has the heart of a Hobart before Whirlpool started messing with the design.   I scrape but never rinse (basically knock off lumps and chunks) and mine handles normal dishes/glassware etc with no complaints.  Really crusty, baked-on things sometimes need a second go-round or some presoaking before they're spotless unless I use the soak&scrub cycle which I don't think the Custom model has.  

 

[volsboy1]

Here is the other one that I have found.It does have more options as far as cycles go.I love the look of these with stainless steel inserts like the one that was in First wives club movie.Which year and model is the best at cleaning?I have looked around for old Thermador's which are rare very rare and a good K-aid Kds 18.If somebody down here in the south knows of one let me know.Thanks

 

[rp2813]

OK, that second machine is a KDI-21 or 22, but I don't think it offers the Soak & Scrub cycle.  I thought that was only a Superba thing, and something of a gimmick.  Anyway, it has more features and cycle options than machine #1 but is the same vintage.  I had one of these for 18 years and never had any trouble with it. 

 

I agree that a KDS-18 would be great to find, but the series 21 and 22 machines are still good performers with similar longevity.  I put crusty un-rinsed items into my ISE Classic Supreme, which is a series 22 clone, and after I've emptied it I check the filter and it's entirely clean.  The filter purges after each wash cycle have consistently taken care of business.

 

And finally, allow me to narrow your search.  Stop, Stop, STOP looking for an older Thermador or Waste King!  I did my best to give a Thermador THD-3600 a chance to win me over, but after a year of coping with ridiculously high decibels and often frustrating results, I replaced it with my ISE and I couldn't be happier.  The next person to subject himself to the Thermador was in love for a brief period, but the machine quickly turned on him by producing uncleaned dishes and leaving film on everything.  It was evicted, and hopefully did not pass GO on its way directly to the krusher.   Trust me, you don't want one of these machines.

 

 

 

[bwoods]

first wives club dishwasher

Wes, are you referring to the dishwasher in Goldie Hawn's kitchen in First Wives Club? I thought it was a reverse rack Maytag.

I'll have to go back and rewatch the movie.

 

[appnut]

Wes, I"m not goiing to mince words and I'm going to put it rigjht on the line. You are looking for an older KitchenAid. ANY of the machines with the porcelain interior (even the ones that were Whirlpool produced and not Hobart) are going to more than meet what you are hoping and expecting. So stop focusing solely on "I gotta have a Hobart Kitchenaid". Because of this focus, you have already passed up a few really good machines over the years you have previously asked about over time. The 2nd one above is either a KDI21 or KDI22. It may or may not have the adjustable top rack. It will have the china guard. The 3 cycles are Pots/Pans, Normal, and Light/China. The two buttons on the right are Rinse & Hold and no-heat dry. The Superbas in these series pause (dwell) while they heat the water to 140 degrees. These Imperial models contiue to circulate while the water is being heated and will also have the main wash cycle extended from 8 to 15 minutes long while doing so. Even a KD23 series machine (the last of the porcelain KitchenAids) will give excellent results and the 23 series uses the whirlpool PowerClean module, according to Combo52 (John LeFevere) gave excellent cleaning results. (A Whirlpool PowerClean and comparable Kenmore UltraWash have got to be the best cleaning dishwashers EVER produced). And I trust John's opinion and observation more than most becuse he's been in the appliance repair business for 20-25 years at least and has tried them all!! (I'm just wondering why the 2nd machine is sitting out in what looks like a side of the road--why it was pulled out of service. And in other words, get ones of these 21-23 series machines when you find one in very good shape and get on with your life and stop obsessing about it all!! It's not as if you are looking to build a collection of various KitchenAid models, you are wanting one for a daily driver.

 

[jetcone]

Did the Thermadores

really clean poorly? Were they modified bewyond the Hydro Sweep arm??
I saw one recently here in CL and it looked like a neat control panel with lots of lights and it had a SS interior.

jon

 

[rp2813]

Here's a picture of my 1985 Thermador's interior.  You can barely see a sliver of the upper wash arm, which is a smaller version of the lower one.  These machines might perform well under absolutely ideal circumstances with the world's softest water and super phosphated detergent, but otherwise all bets are off.  I know from whence I speak, as does my good buddy Nate, a dishwasher nut if there ever was one.  Note the chewed up gasket where the rollers for the bottom rack scrape against it.  A sloppy design.  The lower rack would also de-rail itself easily if the load wasn't perfectly balanced.  Super annoying.

 

IMO, it's not a dishwasher, it's a dis-washer.

 

[volsboy1]

I have used a Thermador one time down at my Aunts condo and I was fascinated buy it.I did not know that they were that bad.I just love rare dishwasher's I remember it seemed heat the water like hell and it was loud but all the old ones are not quite but that to me means it is working when you hear water.The Dishwasher in First wives club was a kitchenaid Diane Keaton kitchen it had stainless steel panels and it looked so cool and it had a commercial retro look.. Yes I am picky but when your one legged its kinda tough to get these and pick them up without help.We had a 1986 Kitchenaid Superba and it had the heated blower and it worked great,when it went out I got one that looked just like it but the heating element was huge and the blower was plastic.It feel apart on me with in a year and folks on here told me it was because Whirlpool was being cheap because the next year the kitchenaid had the power-clean wash pump.I am very hard on dishwasher's though.My Mom is very picky I guess I get that from her.[this post was last edited: 9/23/2011-15:47]

 

[rp2813]

Oh yes, the Thundering Thermador did heat the water.  And it heated, and it heated, and it heated, for like half an hour or more on the "Sanitize" cycle.  By the time that particular portion of the cycle was over, the fill for the next wash consisted of barely warm water, since the pipes had cooled down and the heater was a considerable distance from the machine.  That defeated the whole purpose of the steam cycle.  Waaaaay too many flaws in that system.  I'm glad you found the KDS-18.  You'll be much, much happier with it.  A Thermador or WK machine would have only offered frustration.

 

[volsboy1]

Thanks for the heads up on the Thermador.I just figured that sense Wasteking made such great disposer's which I have about 25 or so from the 50s and up even a full blown Wasteking commercial disposer.That there dishwasher's would be as good My 1970 Wasteking SS8000 is a Monster of a disposer and never clogs my sink.I have never really cared about how loud a dishwasher is I love that sound.I had to fix my friends Frigidare and its so funny watching the pump action of that machine she is mad cause it won't clean.I had to show her a Video of her old dishwasher vs her new one..

 

[mrcleanjeans]

The Thundering Thermador

Ralph,didn't you discover that the Thermador wasn't filling up enough, due to low water pressure? I know they are loud, but a partial fill could cause thunderous surging and less than stellar results. I remember when you first got it,you were thrilled at not only its cleaning ability, but its perfect drying results.And it seemed someone put in the wrong type of soap,and that troubles ensued after that. Perhaps its fill valve slowly clogged,since it seems the InSinkErator doesn't have those issues. I know many people have said the Waste King-Thermadors clean just fine. In fact,in the mid 70s, they were #1 in cleaning,followed by Maytags in Consumer Reports. That set of tests I believed.But it's true, they do have some issues as most machines do in one form or another.

 

[bwoods]

first wive's club dishwashers

Yes, Diane Keeton's was a Kitchen-Aid I forgot about that scene at the beginning of the movie.

Goldie Hawn's was a RR Maytag. Check out the scene where they have the fight at Goldie's Apartment.

If you do get the KitchenAid on Craigslist here in Tennessee, make sure you take the filter out and backwash it because KA performance really suffers when this filter clogs.

 

[stevet]

The Real McCoy!!!!

The machine in the first ad is the real thing! It is a KDC21 made by HOBART!!
The give away is the little amber light on the right side of the control panel!
It glows when it is heating the water in the poreheat mode, and it will do it 2x in the normal wash because it pauses again at the start of the Light China cycle too.

I installed that identical machine with the round Hobart reversing motor in my late Mother in Law's condo and while it took longer than her old GE machine to do the dishes, everything came out sparkling clean and very dry!
Her machine is pictured below and in the next panel with the stainless panels.

These were the last machines with the heater element in the sump utilizing 1400 watts to preheat the water(700 during the regular portions of the cycles) and the heated air metal blower under the machine. Later machines lacked the heating indicator and only the Superba had the submerged sump heater.

But as has already mentioned, all the 21 and 22's used the same pump with the metal disposer in the pump and the 23s used the power clean module which is no slouch when it comes to cleaning. I have never dogged any machine that had that system because it too was a fantastic pump system. In some ways they outcleaned the KA's of the same vintage because they always had the pump running while heating the water which effectively gave longer wash times.

If you are going to insist on just tossing everything into your dishwasher without regard to what it takes to get that stuff off and keep it off the dishes, I would go for the 21 and 22 with the true disposer in the pump.

And if you have that great Waste King disposer in the sink,why not just scrape the dishes out in the sink and gived your dishwasher a break and the respect it deserves.

BTW, if you don't remember, Wes, I have an KDS18, KDS21M AND A KDS22 in my garage I am willing to sell or even trade you for that National Disposer you never got back to me on!

 

[stevet]

The Real McCoy II

here is the next pic of the KDC21 by Hobart with the stainless panels

 

[rp2813]

David, you're correct that in the beginning I was thrilled with the Thermador's performance but not so much with its noise level.  The trouble started when phosphate-free detergent was used, and no amount of Lemishine or Glass Magic or vinegar or bleach was able to correct it.

 

Still, as I threw more challenges at the TT even before the phosphate-free incident, it would fail me.  I had to scrape and rinse dishes much more thoroughly than I do for the ISE. 

 

Without a doubt, there is no machine that could dry a load better than the TT, but I'd rather have one that's able to wash a load and I'll put up with having to wipe out cup bottoms in exchange.

 

As time went by, the results the TT produced were disappointing too often.  I gave it a year, putting up with all of its quirks, and then gave up.  When I found the ISE on craigslist, I didn't waste any time in snagging it, and I haven't regretted my decision to give the TT the boot.  Automatic water heating is the way to go.  The water for the next fill is reasonably hot, unlike what would happen when the steam option was selected on the TT.