joe_in_philly
Well-known member
I wonder how quickly a 220V heat pump dryer would dry a typical load. I imagine it will use a drain hose and pump instead of a condensate collection bucket.
Whirlpool Corporation Introduces New Hybrid Heat Pump Dryer Technology, HybridCare™
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warmsecondrinse
Well-known member
The press release if full of awkward wording
"Compared to typical dryers that use large amounts of energy in the form of venting hot, moist air, the Whirlpool brand HybridCare™ dryer is a ventless heat pump dryer that uses a refrigeration system to dry and recycle the same air. "
The first clause doesn't even make any sense and the second implies that somewhere in the world there are vented heat pump dryers that do not use a refrigeration system to dry and recycle the same air, or...
or this: "...to deliver drying performance..." What kind of performance? Piss poor?
"As a ventless technology, HybridCare™ does not require an outside vent," This means that somewhere in the world there is ventless technology that DOES require an outside vent.
In one sentence he states that the fact that the dryer is ventless, not that it uses a heat pump, is what saves energy.
Seriously, this brings out the English teacher in me and this writer gets an F. I get the impression that the writer doesn't understand understand how this dryer works, or how ANY dryers work. OY!
That said, this poor excuse for a press release has no connection with how well this dryer will work or how much energy it'll save in real life. I wonder if it'll live up to its hype.
Jim
"Compared to typical dryers that use large amounts of energy in the form of venting hot, moist air, the Whirlpool brand HybridCare™ dryer is a ventless heat pump dryer that uses a refrigeration system to dry and recycle the same air. "
The first clause doesn't even make any sense and the second implies that somewhere in the world there are vented heat pump dryers that do not use a refrigeration system to dry and recycle the same air, or...
or this: "...to deliver drying performance..." What kind of performance? Piss poor?
"As a ventless technology, HybridCare™ does not require an outside vent," This means that somewhere in the world there is ventless technology that DOES require an outside vent.
In one sentence he states that the fact that the dryer is ventless, not that it uses a heat pump, is what saves energy.
Seriously, this brings out the English teacher in me and this writer gets an F. I get the impression that the writer doesn't understand understand how this dryer works, or how ANY dryers work. OY!
That said, this poor excuse for a press release has no connection with how well this dryer will work or how much energy it'll save in real life. I wonder if it'll live up to its hype.
Jim
This is what we've been waiting for!
It'll be interesting to take a look a these machines when they appear.
This really is the first significant technological advancement in dryer technology since the introduction of automatic dryness controls in the late 50s.
I'm sure that they will get clothes dry, the question in my mind will be how they deal with press care.
They will also inevitably produce some heat that ends up in the space where it's located.
It'll be interesting to take a look a these machines when they appear.
This really is the first significant technological advancement in dryer technology since the introduction of automatic dryness controls in the late 50s.
I'm sure that they will get clothes dry, the question in my mind will be how they deal with press care.
They will also inevitably produce some heat that ends up in the space where it's located.
mielerod69
Well-known member
Miele heat pump
Miele launched the heatpump dryer in Australia in 2009. Since then it is the number one selling heatpump dryer on the market. There are now many competitors offering a heatpump in their line up. Drying times are comparable to a standard condenser dryer.
Here is the video link to how the Miele heatpump works
Miele launched the heatpump dryer in Australia in 2009. Since then it is the number one selling heatpump dryer on the market. There are now many competitors offering a heatpump in their line up. Drying times are comparable to a standard condenser dryer.
Here is the video link to how the Miele heatpump works
mielerod69
Well-known member
Whirlpool probably based on LG format
Here is the video of the LG EcoHybrid.
Here is the video of the LG EcoHybrid.
mrb627
Well-known member
But...
Will people pay 2000 for a dryer?
Wondering what it will actually cost in the real world.
Malcolm
Will people pay 2000 for a dryer?
Wondering what it will actually cost in the real world.
Malcolm
<blockquote>The press release if full of awkward wording
"Compared to typical dryers that use large amounts of energy in the form of venting hot, moist air, the Whirlpool brand HybridCare™ dryer is a ventless heat pump dryer that uses a refrigeration system to dry and recycle the same air. "
The first clause doesn't even make any sense and the second implies that somewhere in the world there are vented heat pump dryers that do not use a refrigeration system to dry and recycle the same air, or...
... snip ...
That said, this poor excuse for a press release has no connection with how well this dryer will work or how much energy it'll save in real life. I wonder if it'll live up to its hype.</blockquote> I took the description to be in comparison to a standard electric-resistance or gas, vented dryer which is to what what the overwhelming majority of U.S. consumers are familiar.
Drying times are comparable to a standard condenser dryer.
There is the rub. Condenser dryers take longer than vented along with several other factors that drive American consumers up the wall. My condenser dryer (Oko-Lavatherm) is useless this time of year (hot and humid weather), and thus really only sees use from about late November to March or perhaps April.
In my experience those whom are able to have a vented dryer will do so even if it means using one of those Whirlpool built portable/compact dryers.
DOE attempted to rate condenser dryers several years ago for the American market in terms of energy efficiency. They gave up basically saying the things really wouldn't work for a large part of the American market.
http://www.energystar.gov/ia/produc...Scoping_Report_Residential_Clothes_Dryers.pdf
http://fire.nist.gov/bfrlpubs/build98/PDF/b98148.pdf
Maybe these new heat pump dryers will prove different. But am here to tell you know plenty of persons living in some of the most expensive real estate in Manhattan that have been landed with condenser dryers, and hate them with a passion. *LOL*
There is the rub. Condenser dryers take longer than vented along with several other factors that drive American consumers up the wall. My condenser dryer (Oko-Lavatherm) is useless this time of year (hot and humid weather), and thus really only sees use from about late November to March or perhaps April.
In my experience those whom are able to have a vented dryer will do so even if it means using one of those Whirlpool built portable/compact dryers.
DOE attempted to rate condenser dryers several years ago for the American market in terms of energy efficiency. They gave up basically saying the things really wouldn't work for a large part of the American market.
http://www.energystar.gov/ia/produc...Scoping_Report_Residential_Clothes_Dryers.pdf
http://fire.nist.gov/bfrlpubs/build98/PDF/b98148.pdf
Maybe these new heat pump dryers will prove different. But am here to tell you know plenty of persons living in some of the most expensive real estate in Manhattan that have been landed with condenser dryers, and hate them with a passion. *LOL*
These videos pretty much confirmed my thoughts about how this all works.
With the Miele dryer I'd be curious to know what kind of temperatures are achieved in the drum toward the end of the cycle. Also, I am curious as to the actual thermal capacity of the heat pump. Is it 1/2 ton, 1 ton, 2 tons, 3 tons! ?
Given that these dryers will mostly be replacing existing electric dryers where there will already be a 30 amp, 240 volt outlet available, the refrigeration system could be quite large.
With the Miele dryer I'd be curious to know what kind of temperatures are achieved in the drum toward the end of the cycle. Also, I am curious as to the actual thermal capacity of the heat pump. Is it 1/2 ton, 1 ton, 2 tons, 3 tons! ?
Given that these dryers will mostly be replacing existing electric dryers where there will already be a 30 amp, 240 volt outlet available, the refrigeration system could be quite large.
arbilab
Well-known member
Clear me up here. You've got a conventional lint screen which a great deal of lint manages to bypass. Then you've got a cold wet plate or worse, fins where the bypass lint gets stuck and hardens to a crust while the dryer is off. Who, and how exactly, comes along behind this process and removes the crust?
In the water-condenser, it goes down the drain right? But the heatpump has no drain, also right? Wait a tick. The water that was in the clothes has to go SOMEwhere. The hot side of the heat pump can evaporate it, but where does it go THEN? If into the room air, one has to pay one's airconditioner to remove it. Unless one lives in the desert southwest.
This is why nobody likes engineers. They either sell you stuff that does things 'under the table' because marketing told them to. Or they ask gnarly questions that make you fall out of 'marketing love' with what you thought was a good idea.
In the water-condenser, it goes down the drain right? But the heatpump has no drain, also right? Wait a tick. The water that was in the clothes has to go SOMEwhere. The hot side of the heat pump can evaporate it, but where does it go THEN? If into the room air, one has to pay one's airconditioner to remove it. Unless one lives in the desert southwest.
This is why nobody likes engineers. They either sell you stuff that does things 'under the table' because marketing told them to. Or they ask gnarly questions that make you fall out of 'marketing love' with what you thought was a good idea.
Cannot Vouch For These Heat Pump Versions
Normal condenser dryers have a container where the "condensed" water collects. That or you can set the thing up to drain into a sink or whatever via a tube.
The "heat pump" bit is added to address the main short coming of condenser dryers; that is they are only "half" of an air conditioning unit so to speak in that they rely upon ambient room temperature air to work.
Normal condenser dryers have a container where the "condensed" water collects. That or you can set the thing up to drain into a sink or whatever via a tube.
The "heat pump" bit is added to address the main short coming of condenser dryers; that is they are only "half" of an air conditioning unit so to speak in that they rely upon ambient room temperature air to work.
mrb627
Well-known member
Air Flow
I would imagine that the volume of air flowing through the drum is greatly reduced, since there is no need to pump it outside. Which might thereby leave the lint right where it came in, on your clothes.
Being a heat pump dryer, it wont be affected by ambient humidity levels like a water cooled condenser.
I am also interested in operating temperature, and noise levels as well.
Malcolm
I would imagine that the volume of air flowing through the drum is greatly reduced, since there is no need to pump it outside. Which might thereby leave the lint right where it came in, on your clothes.
Being a heat pump dryer, it wont be affected by ambient humidity levels like a water cooled condenser.
I am also interested in operating temperature, and noise levels as well.
Malcolm
The Miele dryer specs say that condensate water is "discharged to waste".
The Miele also appears to have about three levels of filtration that air passes over between the drum and the condenser/evaporator coils.
In reading the specs on the UK model of the Panasonic Heat Pump dryer, it has a water container where the condensate is held. They say to empty after each load. There is also a safety circuit that shuts the dryer down when the container is full. It also has an optional drain hose that can be installed.
The Panasonic uses two levels of air filtration: 1. fluff filter and 2. fine filter. The fluff filter appears to looks like the lint filter on every other dryer and they recommend cleaning it after each load. The fine filter looks like a piece of dense foam that is about 3" thick. They recommend cleaning this filter monthly.
The power consumption on all of these dryers SEEMS to be about 1000 watts at full load. That would lead me to believe that the size of the condensing unit is about 3/4 of a ton (8,000-10,000 BTUs).
The Miele also appears to have about three levels of filtration that air passes over between the drum and the condenser/evaporator coils.
In reading the specs on the UK model of the Panasonic Heat Pump dryer, it has a water container where the condensate is held. They say to empty after each load. There is also a safety circuit that shuts the dryer down when the container is full. It also has an optional drain hose that can be installed.
The Panasonic uses two levels of air filtration: 1. fluff filter and 2. fine filter. The fluff filter appears to looks like the lint filter on every other dryer and they recommend cleaning it after each load. The fine filter looks like a piece of dense foam that is about 3" thick. They recommend cleaning this filter monthly.
The power consumption on all of these dryers SEEMS to be about 1000 watts at full load. That would lead me to believe that the size of the condensing unit is about 3/4 of a ton (8,000-10,000 BTUs).
Here is the article from USA Today Whirlpool sites in it's PR release above: http://www.usatoday.com/story/money/business/2014/06/12/clothes-dryers-energy-waste/10330629/
First thing to notice is that gas dryers only cost on average $40 per year to operate against the $100 for electric heated versions.
Next even the DOE admits heat pump dryers are expensive especially when compared against standard dryers now sold. They also admit condenser dryers take longer to get the job done.
So here we go again, not satisfied with creating standards that now give us washing machines that use wet wipe technology, dryers are next in their cross hairs.
Between washing machines that take hours to do one load and soon dryers that take equally as long soon we shall return to the laundry days of our great grandmothers; then the family wash took three days to complete.
First thing to notice is that gas dryers only cost on average $40 per year to operate against the $100 for electric heated versions.
Next even the DOE admits heat pump dryers are expensive especially when compared against standard dryers now sold. They also admit condenser dryers take longer to get the job done.
So here we go again, not satisfied with creating standards that now give us washing machines that use wet wipe technology, dryers are next in their cross hairs.
Between washing machines that take hours to do one load and soon dryers that take equally as long soon we shall return to the laundry days of our great grandmothers; then the family wash took three days to complete.
A couple of explanations:
- all heat pump dryers have several filters. How well they work depends on the manufacturer. Our consumer magazine almost exclusively tests HP dryers as regular condenser dryerd are becoming less and less relevant and new vented dryers... forget it. Most manufacturers have like one or two on their website left, while you can chose from ten to thirty HP models. Anyway, the consumer magazine ran many loads of new towels through them and found that the worst dryers had to be cleaned every five cycles, while the best ones went through 20 cycles without a trace of lint on the condenser. When Miele first came out with HP dryers, they had like six filters in them: the main one had to be cleaned after each load and the other ones vacuumed off once a month or so. That was years ago. Current dryers have mostly two to three filters. One needs cleaning after each use and the others pop out for cleaning on a monthly or so basis. Bosch and LG make dryers that wash the condenser off with a stream of water.
- Hybrid Heating. LG has a heat pump and a traditional heating element that are activated as needed (speed mode vs. eco mode). Electrolux, Bosch, Panasonic and others use inverter motors that can adjust the power output of the HP for fast or economic drying.
- the usual operating temp is around 130F. Panasonic states that their inverter heat pump adjusts the temp from 113 to 156F for the gentle/eco or fast mode.
- condensate is either collected in a drawer or drained off (most likely into the drain that is already present for the washer).
- noise levels are typically in the lower 50dB range.
- all heat pump dryers have several filters. How well they work depends on the manufacturer. Our consumer magazine almost exclusively tests HP dryers as regular condenser dryerd are becoming less and less relevant and new vented dryers... forget it. Most manufacturers have like one or two on their website left, while you can chose from ten to thirty HP models. Anyway, the consumer magazine ran many loads of new towels through them and found that the worst dryers had to be cleaned every five cycles, while the best ones went through 20 cycles without a trace of lint on the condenser. When Miele first came out with HP dryers, they had like six filters in them: the main one had to be cleaned after each load and the other ones vacuumed off once a month or so. That was years ago. Current dryers have mostly two to three filters. One needs cleaning after each use and the others pop out for cleaning on a monthly or so basis. Bosch and LG make dryers that wash the condenser off with a stream of water.
- Hybrid Heating. LG has a heat pump and a traditional heating element that are activated as needed (speed mode vs. eco mode). Electrolux, Bosch, Panasonic and others use inverter motors that can adjust the power output of the HP for fast or economic drying.
- the usual operating temp is around 130F. Panasonic states that their inverter heat pump adjusts the temp from 113 to 156F for the gentle/eco or fast mode.
- condensate is either collected in a drawer or drained off (most likely into the drain that is already present for the washer).
- noise levels are typically in the lower 50dB range.
@logixx
I can agree mostly, except:
-Miele had 3 types of filters: The usual fine mesh ones one knows from the usual condensor modells in the door itself and the door boot. Than each of these had a simmilar filter right behind it self made of a foam type material. And than, there has been a one layerd fine filter made of a different, more dense foam material right in front of the condensor. Now, they fused the 2 foam rubbber stuff filters in one 2 layered filter in front of the condensor which needs cleaning every 1-6 months.
- Noise level is usually in the mid 60 range as far as the labels state.
-The drying temperature varrys from modell to modell. I general, there are 2 types: One with a low temp option, one without. The ones with dry at 140-150°, and on speed modes, 160° are reachable. Such systems are used on WP, Bosch, Panasonic and the new T1 series by Miele. The ones without usually dry at 120-130° and usually don't go above 140°. Such are the E-Lux system, the old and updated Miele style and some cheaper models.
I can agree mostly, except:
-Miele had 3 types of filters: The usual fine mesh ones one knows from the usual condensor modells in the door itself and the door boot. Than each of these had a simmilar filter right behind it self made of a foam type material. And than, there has been a one layerd fine filter made of a different, more dense foam material right in front of the condensor. Now, they fused the 2 foam rubbber stuff filters in one 2 layered filter in front of the condensor which needs cleaning every 1-6 months.
- Noise level is usually in the mid 60 range as far as the labels state.
-The drying temperature varrys from modell to modell. I general, there are 2 types: One with a low temp option, one without. The ones with dry at 140-150°, and on speed modes, 160° are reachable. Such systems are used on WP, Bosch, Panasonic and the new T1 series by Miele. The ones without usually dry at 120-130° and usually don't go above 140°. Such are the E-Lux system, the old and updated Miele style and some cheaper models.
Henrik
Woops - yes, meant in the lower 60dB range. I just checked and the American vented Samsung DV431 (sold as a "commercial" machine over here) is rated at 65dB as well.
Where did you get the info on the temp getting so high? I don't think HP dryers get that hot - how would you otherwise explain that the cycles get longer and longer?
Alex
Woops - yes, meant in the lower 60dB range. I just checked and the American vented Samsung DV431 (sold as a "commercial" machine over here) is rated at 65dB as well.
Where did you get the info on the temp getting so high? I don't think HP dryers get that hot - how would you otherwise explain that the cycles get longer and longer?
Alex
I know many here do not like dryer sheets. I do use them and have for years. My question please, will this machine get hot enough to get the product out of the dryer sheets? I wonder if we will be seeing "Bounce" HE on store shelves?
ALR
ALR
pierreandreply4
Well-known member
well for me 2000$ is way to much
Well for me 2000$ is way to much no way i would pay such a price for a dryer that will waste alot more energy than a conventinal 220 volt electric dryer
Well for me 2000$ is way to much no way i would pay such a price for a dryer that will waste alot more energy than a conventinal 220 volt electric dryer
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