There was a question in another thread concerning the appearance of early Whirlpool direct drive machines. This should be it, 24" model LB5500XL (L = 1982 model year).
Whirlpool Direct Drive
- Thread starter DADoES
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The image is scanned from this service manual.
This service manual L-52 copyright 1985 covers neutral drain. The model referenced is LA7460XM.
My Whirlpool parts catalog from 1992 shows the 1982 models as K series machines, with from what I can tell the first DD model is an LB5500XK. It shows the LB5500XL as a 1983 model.
The first Kenmore was a 1980 model 110.81061100. That was followed by an '81 model of similar nomeclature, and two others, another 60-series and a 70-series (I believe those are the machines that used the odd gold agitators). For 1982 and 1983, finding a belt in a 24-inch washer was difficult with Kenmore.
Gordon
The first Kenmore was a 1980 model 110.81061100. That was followed by an '81 model of similar nomeclature, and two others, another 60-series and a 70-series (I believe those are the machines that used the odd gold agitators). For 1982 and 1983, finding a belt in a 24-inch washer was difficult with Kenmore.
Gordon
Yup, I got that wrong (and in the other thread also), and should have known. 1982 = K. I also overlooked where L-46 does reference model LB5500XKW0, on page 49.
gyrafoam
Well-known member
I thought in the beginning they were "spin-drain". Whats up with that? Did they try it out later and then revert to neutral drain? (OR is it that if you open the lid when the drain begins and then close it, it starts to spin? I forget).
supremewhirlpol
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You found it!!
Yes, that's the one!! I refer to that machine as DD "model 0". Does anyone have one of these (that exact model)? How common are they? Man, I would love to get one of these!!
Yes, that's the one!! I refer to that machine as DD "model 0". Does anyone have one of these (that exact model)? How common are they? Man, I would love to get one of these!!
surgilator_68
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We still have an original one from the first training meeting.
The original ones did spin drain. They had so many complaints that the neutral drain was introduced.
The original ones did spin drain. They had so many complaints that the neutral drain was introduced.
supremewhirlpol
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hey surgilator_68,
If you ever want to get rid of it, please keep me in mind.
If you ever want to get rid of it, please keep me in mind.
everythingold
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Without neutral drain, the transmission is subject to too much stress. Especially because the DD has a weak suspension system. DD's have to be completely level, or they quickly get out of whack.
whirlcool
Well-known member
That's exactly right. If you keep the lid down it will do a neutral drain. If you have the lid up and the cycle completes when you put the lid down, it will start spinning immediately.
Or if you open and close the lid during the draining process it will start to spin upon closing the lid.
Or if you open and close the lid during the draining process it will start to spin upon closing the lid.
moonvalleycacti
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Lemme see if the linkie works.. Owners manual from whirlpool
http://shared.whirlpoolcorp.com/assets/pdfs/literature/Use and Care Guide - 383159.pdf
http://shared.whirlpoolcorp.com/assets/pdfs/literature/Use and Care Guide - 383159.pdf
moonvalleycacti
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Heres one i want::
No frills
http://shared.whirlpoolcorp.com/assets/pdfs/literature/Use and Care Guide - 382599.pdf
No frills
http://shared.whirlpoolcorp.com/assets/pdfs/literature/Use and Care Guide - 382599.pdf
moonvalleycacti
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The model inbetween those two
http://shared.whirlpoolcorp.com/assets/pdfs/literature/Use and Care Guide - 382598.pdf
http://shared.whirlpoolcorp.com/assets/pdfs/literature/Use and Care Guide - 382598.pdf
L-52 is copyright 1985 and references LA7460XM. (These are original printed service manuals I have, not .PDFs.) M in eighth position = 1984 model year. P = 1985. LA7460XM may have been a "mid-season" transitional model to introduce neutral drain (what time of year does the model-year typically change?). My grandmother had an LA7400XM (S/N C435) which did not have neutral drain.
LA7400XM Use/Care
LA7460XM Use/Care
In the cycle sequences outlined in the two Use/Care manuals, L7400XM references "Drain & Spin High Speed" before each spin, even on low-speed cycles. LA7460XM references "Drain No Agitation."
LA7400XM manual appears to be in error on Regular/Heavy, the after-wash spin-spray was at high speed, not low ... unless that was an engineering change between LA7400XMW0 (manual reference) and LA7400XMW2 (Granny's model).
Did spin/drain really cause a strain on the tranny? There were no repairs in the 15 years my grandmother (and I) used the LA7400, not even a drive coupler. The machine was not replaced due to failure, it was sold to someone up the street when I passed my GWL08 to granny in 1999.
Were the complaints from consumers who were accustomed to neutral drain on their previous machine? And possibly in regards to the high-speed spin involved in drain on the Gentle & Perm Press cycles? The pump-out rate is high enough that with a low-level fill there may be ~1.5 mins of full high-speed spin before shifting to low-speed.
LA7400XM Use/Care
LA7460XM Use/Care
In the cycle sequences outlined in the two Use/Care manuals, L7400XM references "Drain & Spin High Speed" before each spin, even on low-speed cycles. LA7460XM references "Drain No Agitation."
LA7400XM manual appears to be in error on Regular/Heavy, the after-wash spin-spray was at high speed, not low ... unless that was an engineering change between LA7400XMW0 (manual reference) and LA7400XMW2 (Granny's model).
Did spin/drain really cause a strain on the tranny? There were no repairs in the 15 years my grandmother (and I) used the LA7400, not even a drive coupler. The machine was not replaced due to failure, it was sold to someone up the street when I passed my GWL08 to granny in 1999.
Were the complaints from consumers who were accustomed to neutral drain on their previous machine? And possibly in regards to the high-speed spin involved in drain on the Gentle & Perm Press cycles? The pump-out rate is high enough that with a low-level fill there may be ~1.5 mins of full high-speed spin before shifting to low-speed.
The second and third links are for 1982 belt drive machines. These IIRC were direct drive in 1983's L series.
I learned something from the manuals however - I did not realize that beyond the fill section of the timer sequences, one could run the machine less than full on a machine without an adjustable water level. Very cool, however it would still fill to high for the rinse.
In regard to the direct spin vs. neutral drain machines - in the early editions, they did not pause to drain, even if nobody fiddled with the lid. They did a direct spin, which as Matt said, put a huge strain on what was considered by most at the time a worthless piece of trash (many servicers were very biased against these like anything else new, from what I'm told) so a fairly quick re-design was made to introduce a neutral drain.
When I bought my 1986 BD, I saw a few of the lower line DDs on Sears' floor and would have bought something used had I only had a choice of DDs, and would have raised holy heck about the garbage they were trying to peddle to me. Little did anyone know at the time that these would re-write the standards in some ways later on. Ask a "newer" technician who cut his teeth on DDs what he thinks of belt-drives...lol
Gordon
I learned something from the manuals however - I did not realize that beyond the fill section of the timer sequences, one could run the machine less than full on a machine without an adjustable water level. Very cool, however it would still fill to high for the rinse.
In regard to the direct spin vs. neutral drain machines - in the early editions, they did not pause to drain, even if nobody fiddled with the lid. They did a direct spin, which as Matt said, put a huge strain on what was considered by most at the time a worthless piece of trash (many servicers were very biased against these like anything else new, from what I'm told) so a fairly quick re-design was made to introduce a neutral drain.
When I bought my 1986 BD, I saw a few of the lower line DDs on Sears' floor and would have bought something used had I only had a choice of DDs, and would have raised holy heck about the garbage they were trying to peddle to me. Little did anyone know at the time that these would re-write the standards in some ways later on. Ask a "newer" technician who cut his teeth on DDs what he thinks of belt-drives...lol
Gordon
kenmoreforever
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The DD does not need to be a spin drain because of the coupler taking too much strain which equals unnormal wear and tear upon it although I have never seen much of a problem with the early spin drain ones. Actually I like a machine with spin drain. The older GE top laoder, you know the one with the landscaping block as the counterweight, are a true testament as to the beefyness of those GE motors to be able to push as a spin drain machine all those loads of clothes year after year after year. I only wish that Kenmore could find it in their heats to beef up their motors like those old GE's. I have seen many a GE motor have a second life as a bench grinder. Those windings must have been gold plated my friends.
everythingold
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I still see quite a few of the early Non-ND DD's. Motors were not the problem. The couplers were too strong, and the weight of the spinning water put too much stress on the suspension system. Then the tranie goes. Thats been my exerience. matt
dnastrau
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Design 2000
We had a family friend who bought one of those early Design 2000 machines new and had it until she passed away in 2005. It looked exactly like the one on the cover of that manual. She never had any problems with it, but also didn't use it that heavily.
It stayed with the house after it was sold; I wonder if it is still going (?) It is hard to believe that early "Shredmorepools" may now become collectible!
Andrew S.
We had a family friend who bought one of those early Design 2000 machines new and had it until she passed away in 2005. It looked exactly like the one on the cover of that manual. She never had any problems with it, but also didn't use it that heavily.
It stayed with the house after it was sold; I wonder if it is still going (?) It is hard to believe that early "Shredmorepools" may now become collectible!
Andrew S.
kenmoreforever
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I've also had a few dealings with the design 2000 machine with no problems. Kenmore must have rid it of all the bugs before it hit the market. A rare thing nowadays with all the future problems you see with the new models coming ot. Recall after recall.
norfolksouthern
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It is hard to believe that early "Shredmorepools"
Much of this will depend on how things pan out with the HE machines. I do know that the ones with a blue agitator are starting to get a little more desirable.
NorfolkSouthern
Much of this will depend on how things pan out with the HE machines. I do know that the ones with a blue agitator are starting to get a little more desirable.
NorfolkSouthern
nmassman44
Well-known member
Those KitchenAids have a much larger base vanes and they agitate at a slower rate at 120 spm. Whirlpools and Kenmore move at 180 spm on High speed. From what I understand that you should not interchange the agitators since the transmission with the KitchenAid Agitator needs to run at a lower spm because of the size of the vanes. Plus it needs a larger capacitor to get the system, into motion. If I remember right someone here put this agitator into a Kenmore washer and ran it on high with jeans and fried the motor and killed the transmission. Not a good thing.
And I think that the KitchenAids used the Gentle Wash feature where it starts off at 120 spm then switches down to 90 spm to finish off the wash cycle. Plus they had the stepped spins. Nice machine
And I think that the KitchenAids used the Gentle Wash feature where it starts off at 120 spm then switches down to 90 spm to finish off the wash cycle. Plus they had the stepped spins. Nice machine
dnastrau
Well-known member
KitchenAid toploader
We sold our mid-line 2000 model year KitchenAid two years ago to buy our Maytag Epic. I wish I'd held onto the KitchenAid as a second machine. It was a good, flexible machine. It had the same style agitator as the blue and stainless trim model above, but by 2000 they were just plain white without the stainless trim.
Andrew S.
We sold our mid-line 2000 model year KitchenAid two years ago to buy our Maytag Epic. I wish I'd held onto the KitchenAid as a second machine. It was a good, flexible machine. It had the same style agitator as the blue and stainless trim model above, but by 2000 they were just plain white without the stainless trim.
Andrew S.
norfolksouthern
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Like the tentacles of a giant squid...
IT pulls its prey down to the fins with its strong suction.
IT pulls its prey down to the fins with its strong suction.
norfolksouthern
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And...
The billowing sponge gives up the fight to its captor, as the predator sucks down and devours its prey.
NorfolkSouthern
The billowing sponge gives up the fight to its captor, as the predator sucks down and devours its prey.
NorfolkSouthern
everythingold
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Agitators on DD's are not interchangeable, some will bind the clothes around the shaft, and yes you can strip out a tranie with that. A decent DD with a 3 speed motor and speed control, properly leveled is a very decent machine. Slowing down agitation is the key. For the average Joe or Sally, it is the way to go. matt
yogitunes
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installed this larger in my first kenmore limited...my tranny did snap a gear but never thought it was from the agitator...stupid me...then I got the newer kenmore electronic 3 speed...never had any problems on any speed...but i really liked the normal cycle...in this model normal gave a medium wash action and a high spin...really moved clothes compared to the original agitator....and the machine was really quiet compared to the high speed wash...
everythingold
Well-known member
There have been some cool DD's made. There was a Kenmore Limited Edition in Black with Chrome, a Panel Light, and a board that was really neat, shows the actual water level going up and down. There is also a portable DD with an additional suspension system similar to a GE. Smaller tub, but the full size motor mounted diagonal. It has to spin at around 800, and the additional support makes it a real smooth ride. Anyway, DD's have their place, most "normal" people have a HUGE bias against any washer or dryer that is "old." I think a lot of that is from media disinformation. Old appliances draw enormous amounts of juice (some do, but it's because your fridge gasket has disintegrated, lol), they are water hogs (yah, that's because they actually clean clothes). If you are so concerned about water usuage, run your gutters into a barrel and use it to wash clothes, water the lawn etc. All this energy star ratings and high efficiency stuff is just marketing BS. Putting an under-sized compressor in a fridge is "energy efficient" in a certain sense, but when it pops after 4 years, that is not efficient. Neither is running a heating element for defrost instead of using the existing heat like the good old GMFR's. But, I have started forcing Whirlpool BD's down people's throat with warranties. Tough to say no to a 6 or 12 month garrantee, no matter how old the machine is...matt
Which Frigidaire didn't use a heating element for defrost? All the ones I remember, from the early 60's, up til the WCI era, used a heater, if it was a Frost Free model.
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