... said the men via messages transmitted from their electronic computers.
Whirlpool engineers strike out.
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... said the men via messages transmitted from their electronic computers.
danemodsandy
Well-known member
DADoES:
Touché, of course - but remember that electronics are essential to computing as we know it. They weren't considered necessary to the processes of toasting bread or washing clothes until comparatively recently.
Everything Man does - including our beloved vintage appliances - has impacted or does impact upon the Earth. All I'm saying is that a little judiciousness would go a long way - do we really need a particular technology or material or process in a given application?
Touché, of course - but remember that electronics are essential to computing as we know it. They weren't considered necessary to the processes of toasting bread or washing clothes until comparatively recently.
Everything Man does - including our beloved vintage appliances - has impacted or does impact upon the Earth. All I'm saying is that a little judiciousness would go a long way - do we really need a particular technology or material or process in a given application?
Speaking of burned out bulbs and stupid engineering...Xenon headlight went out in my car and the bumper must be removed to get to the bulb! $390. UNREAL!
Actually, it's not stupid engineering, it's a sophisticated plan to force customers back in the dealership. Sickening.
Actually, it's not stupid engineering, it's a sophisticated plan to force customers back in the dealership. Sickening.
lordkenmore
Well-known member
I have mixed feelings about electronics in appliances. On the one hand, they can potentially make things possible that aren't possible or practical with mechanical controls. I knew someone years back who had a Lady Kenmore washer with the pre-programmed cycle control via mechanical buttons. Whenever that thing was made (about 1970?), it was a top of the line product. Now one can get that sort of programmed cycle control in an entry level product.
Although, whether computer controls do enough to justify them is another question. A dishwasher that can monitor the cleaning and adjust for perfectly clean dishes with the least energy and water used might not be a bad idea. Unfortunately, it seems like many electronic systems really do nothing that wasn't done by even entry level mechanical controls. The new electronic controls are simply more marketable, and cheaper to implement.
The biggest practical minus I see with electronic controls are that repairs are considerably more difficult, and reliability can be a real problem. However, a lot of this is probably due to the way the technology is implemented. Frankly, the real problem that I see is simply how modern appliances, regardless of technology used, are flimsy and apparently designed not to be easily servicable. I replaced a door latch on one dishwasher that failed way too early. Another time, I was faced with flashing lights that said "I'm not happy! I won't work!" But, doing a Google search turned up no usable information. The lights could be anything from a loose connection, a sensor failure, a control pad failure, or control computer failure. Would it have killed the designer to have actually installed usable error codes that actually tell one something? In fact, with alpha-numeric displays, you could easily have it plain English so one would know where to start looking. "Water level sensor failure!" or "Keypad failure!" or "My warranty ended yesterday! I'm now going to totally blow up! Have a nice day!"
Although, whether computer controls do enough to justify them is another question. A dishwasher that can monitor the cleaning and adjust for perfectly clean dishes with the least energy and water used might not be a bad idea. Unfortunately, it seems like many electronic systems really do nothing that wasn't done by even entry level mechanical controls. The new electronic controls are simply more marketable, and cheaper to implement.
The biggest practical minus I see with electronic controls are that repairs are considerably more difficult, and reliability can be a real problem. However, a lot of this is probably due to the way the technology is implemented. Frankly, the real problem that I see is simply how modern appliances, regardless of technology used, are flimsy and apparently designed not to be easily servicable. I replaced a door latch on one dishwasher that failed way too early. Another time, I was faced with flashing lights that said "I'm not happy! I won't work!" But, doing a Google search turned up no usable information. The lights could be anything from a loose connection, a sensor failure, a control pad failure, or control computer failure. Would it have killed the designer to have actually installed usable error codes that actually tell one something? In fact, with alpha-numeric displays, you could easily have it plain English so one would know where to start looking. "Water level sensor failure!" or "Keypad failure!" or "My warranty ended yesterday! I'm now going to totally blow up! Have a nice day!"
lordkenmore
Well-known member
"... said the men via messages transmitted from their electronic computers."
This has struck me as the irony of this site. We celebrate things old. In some cases, some people evidently have a house that is almost entirely vintage 1950 or 1960 something, from the iron to the TV. But we discuss our treasures using current technology.
Although, computers also illustrate my point above--a lot hinges not on technology but how it is applied. I still have and use some older hardware, and I'm impressed by how it keeps going and going and going compared to newer hardware. I have one computer made in the early 1990s that has had been used heavily, and--to date--has had only one failure (power supply). Everything else--including the hard drive--is original. I can't say that about this far newer computer. Unfortunately, newer is better for Internet. Although, maybe I should think of going retro for the Internet, too. I wonder how this site would render using Netscape 2.x?
This has struck me as the irony of this site. We celebrate things old. In some cases, some people evidently have a house that is almost entirely vintage 1950 or 1960 something, from the iron to the TV. But we discuss our treasures using current technology.
Although, computers also illustrate my point above--a lot hinges not on technology but how it is applied. I still have and use some older hardware, and I'm impressed by how it keeps going and going and going compared to newer hardware. I have one computer made in the early 1990s that has had been used heavily, and--to date--has had only one failure (power supply). Everything else--including the hard drive--is original. I can't say that about this far newer computer. Unfortunately, newer is better for Internet. Although, maybe I should think of going retro for the Internet, too. I wonder how this site would render using Netscape 2.x?
How's this?
And this.
lordkenmore
Well-known member
Yes, that's what I was thinking of. I should have figured someone would have something like that, but I haven't seen that in any machine I've encountered.
What machine did these displays come from?
What machine did these displays come from?
The machine is my aforementioned Fisher & Paykel IWL12. The first two displays are examples of fault warnings that may occur during operation, accompanied by attention-calling beeps. The other screens are accessed via Diagnostic Mode. The Fault Code number requires a reference list to translate, but a tech sheet listing common codes is stashed inside the console. I've acquired service documentation that lists all the codes.
toggleswitch2
Well-known member
- Joined
- May 23, 2008
- Messages
- 5,000
Keven:
Your idea for a "back-up" thermostat makes a great deal of sense. Sounds like you'd connect a good old-fashioned manual one is parallel to what exists now.
I laugh alos at new vehicle's interiro lkighting on a circuit board to dime the lights to off.
BUT WHY BLANCHE, WHY?
Will anyone DIE if the lights go from full-on to full-off in one second of time instead of a dim-down via a dimmer(dip-switch=> UK) "chip"?
Why complicate mechanicals? The KISS pricipal rules! LOL "Keep it Stupidly Simple" [The philosophy worked for Maytag washers for decades!]The benefits provided do(es) not equal or exceed the risk of problems / failure of the part(s).
Your idea for a "back-up" thermostat makes a great deal of sense. Sounds like you'd connect a good old-fashioned manual one is parallel to what exists now.
I laugh alos at new vehicle's interiro lkighting on a circuit board to dime the lights to off.
BUT WHY BLANCHE, WHY?
Will anyone DIE if the lights go from full-on to full-off in one second of time instead of a dim-down via a dimmer(dip-switch=> UK) "chip"?
Why complicate mechanicals? The KISS pricipal rules! LOL "Keep it Stupidly Simple" [The philosophy worked for Maytag washers for decades!]The benefits provided do(es) not equal or exceed the risk of problems / failure of the part(s).
toggleswitch2
Well-known member
- Joined
- May 23, 2008
- Messages
- 5,000
I can spell, really!
editing= bad. Sorry, coffee not in me yet.
A B C D E F G
alpha, beta gamma, delta..............
editing= bad. Sorry, coffee not in me yet.
A B C D E F G
alpha, beta gamma, delta..............
And, oh!, those boys from Epsilon...
oh, right, sorry, pre-first coffee, here, too and having pleasant thoughts of the forbidden sort.
I suspect there are two factors involved in the problem:
1) Electronics are being used to lower quality, not raise it.
2) Short term profit is the only motive, screw the customers, screw the company workers, screw the owners, all that counts is the management).
The first point shows up in these machines which are capable of spinning at 1400rpm...but have sensors which only permit that spin when everything is perfectly balanced. Takes forever, but the bearings just won't hold under any stress.
Yeah, I think in parallel is a good idea, thermostat in the part of the house most likely to cool down first. Thanks!
oh, right, sorry, pre-first coffee, here, too and having pleasant thoughts of the forbidden sort.
I suspect there are two factors involved in the problem:
1) Electronics are being used to lower quality, not raise it.
2) Short term profit is the only motive, screw the customers, screw the company workers, screw the owners, all that counts is the management).
The first point shows up in these machines which are capable of spinning at 1400rpm...but have sensors which only permit that spin when everything is perfectly balanced. Takes forever, but the bearings just won't hold under any stress.
Yeah, I think in parallel is a good idea, thermostat in the part of the house most likely to cool down first. Thanks!
lordkenmore
Well-known member
Perhaps it's because I'm simple minded....
...but I also think simple designs are almost always superior. I remember reading one of those tiresome discussions about which is better, tubes or transistors, for audio applications. And that writer suggested that the technology might not matter as much as that he thought tube amps were generally simpler, and simple meant less chance for things to go wrong.
...but I also think simple designs are almost always superior. I remember reading one of those tiresome discussions about which is better, tubes or transistors, for audio applications. And that writer suggested that the technology might not matter as much as that he thought tube amps were generally simpler, and simple meant less chance for things to go wrong.
lordkenmore
Well-known member
As for thermostats, my ideal is no backup. I like to have ONE old fashioned thermostat that has ONE setting.
Yes, those electronic models can automatically set the heat back for energy savings. I can do the same thing, manually. It is only slightly more complicated than turning a light off. (Although, in a world where so many people have brains fried on TV, even the light switch might prove difficult.) With old fashioned thermostat, I have no batteries to fail, nothing to program ("Let's see. It says: 'Press and hold the program button for exactly three seconds. Release. Press it again and hold for two seconds to enable the During the Day mode for Weekdays. Then....'"). And the setbacks are always perfect for my schedule, even on unusual days.
Although, for those who do have a modern thermostat, the backup idea is a good one. I once experienced the "joy" of an electronic thermostat that stopped working because of a battery failure. I survived, but I don't want to think what could happen places that get really cold in winter.
Yes, those electronic models can automatically set the heat back for energy savings. I can do the same thing, manually. It is only slightly more complicated than turning a light off. (Although, in a world where so many people have brains fried on TV, even the light switch might prove difficult.) With old fashioned thermostat, I have no batteries to fail, nothing to program ("Let's see. It says: 'Press and hold the program button for exactly three seconds. Release. Press it again and hold for two seconds to enable the During the Day mode for Weekdays. Then....'"). And the setbacks are always perfect for my schedule, even on unusual days.
Although, for those who do have a modern thermostat, the backup idea is a good one. I once experienced the "joy" of an electronic thermostat that stopped working because of a battery failure. I survived, but I don't want to think what could happen places that get really cold in winter.
mysteryclock
Well-known member
To resurrect this thread...
...it appears that, just in time for our tax refund, I may be in the market for a new fridge since our ~9yo KitchenAid was lukewarm this morning. I'm hoping it was because the freezer door may have been ajar last night, but if not then I'm looking since the cost of a compressor / fan / control board repair is almost certainly > than what it is worth.
I was looking at the french-door Whirlpools but then I remembered this thread. Does anyone have any recommendations on a good brand / model that's new?
...it appears that, just in time for our tax refund, I may be in the market for a new fridge since our ~9yo KitchenAid was lukewarm this morning. I'm hoping it was because the freezer door may have been ajar last night, but if not then I'm looking since the cost of a compressor / fan / control board repair is almost certainly > than what it is worth.
I was looking at the french-door Whirlpools but then I remembered this thread. Does anyone have any recommendations on a good brand / model that's new?
The Whirlpool bottom freezer models are the same as the Amana, made in the Amana, IA plant. Maytag and SOME Kenmore models are also. I have a non French door Amana model about 12 yrs. old that I like.
iheartmaytag
Well-known member
I have the Maytag bottom freezer I purchased Dec 06. No complaints. Well, ok I wished it were a little bigger at only 19 cu. ft. But I didn't have room for a larger frig, so it was my doings and not the refrigerators fault.
