Problem is, the EPA and DOE don't want us using any water, power or phosphates, so the detergent has to do all the real work. For the most part, it seems to, though I never had a doubt when my old KDSS19 was doing it's thing! This newer one is post Whirlpool. It needed a wash pump at about 4 years old, but has otherwise done it's job well enough... still hate Whirlpool though. Went from tied for best overall appliance brand 20-odd years ago, to what they're pooping out today...
Whirlpool's new dishwasher motors
- Thread starter murando531
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At this point my replies are more for those browsing to this site, looking for good data, since Jerome is impervious to evidence.
This is the "Dual Power Filtration" motor and pump assembly for Whirlpool products.
The motor label reads:
.175 Horsepower.
3,380 RPM.
Circulation Pump W10902589
phillymatt53
Well-known member
Shaded pole motors are not suitable for everything.
Better to go with a beefy motor with a start-run system with a capacitor.
Let's not solely blame the EPA, a popular boogeyman for so many here.
Market forces, yummy free market capitalism also drove manufacturers to put smaller quieter motors in their machines.
Don't forget! Many many familes were purchasing large, open concept homes in the late 90s and 2000s, and the market demanded that dishwashers be as quiet as possible.
Bosch was already the leader back then and everyone chased.
So brands found various solutions in different small motors, and alternating wash arms for less splash noise.
Even today, the market demands that dishwashers be as silent as possible.
And they're stil doing it! It's only gonna get worse!
I can guarantee you Whirlpool's own models don't use the dual power motor. I'd take the Maytag. It's too bad they alternate wash zones. What people fail to realize is that it takes 2 hours plus on average to do a normal cycle.
Correct, the Whirlpool brand models don't use the Power Filter module. They use a passive filter cup and wet rotor motor.
Taking two hours doesn't matter when 95% of the population does their dishes at night, and runs the cycle overnight.
It especially doesn't matter when dishwashers are so big these days, you can hold multiple days worth of dishes in them.
And on the very rare circumstances you need dishes faster, like on holidays, all these models have 1 Hour wash cycles.
This is a non-issue.
That would be from the low starting torque of a shaded pole motor. GE did good and latter went to the PSC motor with a higher starting torque.
Whirlpool got it right right from the start (pun intended) and used a relay coil with separate start winding.
Me personally, I like a generous starting torque PSC motor that is also over sized for the application.
I know of plenty of people that don't like the long cycles. I am one of them. The one hour wash just skips the thermal holds and leads to very subpar results, worse than what the machine already is capable of doing.
I've never understood the basis for distress about dishwasher runtimes, except perhaps in instances of clean-up after a large-group meal if the machine doesn't have capacity to handle everything in a single run ... but even so the "leftovers" may not be a full additional load and can hold as the beginning of the next load. I'm apparently goofy that way!
Signed: Goofy Glenn
Signed: Goofy Glenn
Most consumers want their dishes cleaned properly in a reasonable amount of time.
I want my dishes done properly. And I can't stand these puny tine stupid weak pumps! Mine just went out in addition to the heater!
I agree 100%. Today's dishwashers are an insult.
Modern dishwashers today
Clean better than any dishwashers in history while using less water and energy, this is partly because of the sophisticated enzyme detergent.
It is not possible to get dishes, clean in an hour and get rid of all the food residue the longer cycle times are necessary, so the enzymes can attack the food soils and break them up so they can be flushed away.
I had a KDSS 20 for about eight years in my kitchen it did a decent job, but it always stunk because of all the food laying in the bottom of around the filter that had to be cleaned out periodically, it also didn’t drive very well so you always had to remember to try to open the door right away after the cycles of the dishes would be dry the next day, and that would help mitigate the stinky smell from the sump.
Of course, my older whirlpool power, clean machines get rid of all food soil, but they don’t hold nearly as much as the new KitchenAid’s, one of these years I’m going to replace both of the whirlpool power cleans two new three rack KitchenAis.
My business partner Jason, who has had about every dishwasher you can imagine went and bought a new three rack KitchenAid and he said it’s by further the best dishwasher he’s ever had and he’s had more than 40 in his lifetime.
There’s also many testimonials on this site people like Michael in Michigan Eugene in Cleveland among the bedroom known people who have bought the new three wreck KitchenAid’s and been absolutely ecstatic with their performance.
These premium whirlpool product dishwashers have 3450 RPM 1/5 hp motors the most powerful best motor in any dishwasher built in the world for home use.
There is absolutely no filter that ever needs cleaning.
They have the largest capacity of any home dishwasher ever possibly with the exception of a couple 30 inch wide models that were made years ago by a few manufacturers.
John L
Clean better than any dishwashers in history while using less water and energy, this is partly because of the sophisticated enzyme detergent.
It is not possible to get dishes, clean in an hour and get rid of all the food residue the longer cycle times are necessary, so the enzymes can attack the food soils and break them up so they can be flushed away.
I had a KDSS 20 for about eight years in my kitchen it did a decent job, but it always stunk because of all the food laying in the bottom of around the filter that had to be cleaned out periodically, it also didn’t drive very well so you always had to remember to try to open the door right away after the cycles of the dishes would be dry the next day, and that would help mitigate the stinky smell from the sump.
Of course, my older whirlpool power, clean machines get rid of all food soil, but they don’t hold nearly as much as the new KitchenAid’s, one of these years I’m going to replace both of the whirlpool power cleans two new three rack KitchenAis.
My business partner Jason, who has had about every dishwasher you can imagine went and bought a new three rack KitchenAid and he said it’s by further the best dishwasher he’s ever had and he’s had more than 40 in his lifetime.
There’s also many testimonials on this site people like Michael in Michigan Eugene in Cleveland among the bedroom known people who have bought the new three wreck KitchenAid’s and been absolutely ecstatic with their performance.
These premium whirlpool product dishwashers have 3450 RPM 1/5 hp motors the most powerful best motor in any dishwasher built in the world for home use.
There is absolutely no filter that ever needs cleaning.
They have the largest capacity of any home dishwasher ever possibly with the exception of a couple 30 inch wide models that were made years ago by a few manufacturers.
John L
michaelz08
Well-known member
I agree and feel this is one of the biggest reasons. People were pursuing quieter dishwashers before the EPA stepped in with the heavier regulations. While I love the idea of a PowerClean or such, in my condo a very quiet dishwasher is non negotiable. We run it both at night and during the day and don’t want disturbances in either cases. My mom, who remembered her Bosch from back in the PowerClean period, said she picked it because it was so quiet and still cleaned well.
I have helped friends pick models and “Quiet” has always been in their top 3 requirements.
One thing I admittedly find annoying are cycle times. My Miele is 3:20 for a normal cycle, I would have preferred it was no more than 2:30. Bosch gets I’d down around that mark somehow. Oddly I only see people complaining about 3 hour cycles on the cheaper dishwashers, but when you get to Miele prices people don’t when you’d think you would expect more.
And FYI, Whirlpool is starting to sell the Dual Power filtration-type system in their higher end WP branded model (about time, I think).
Lastly, why was this 11 year old thread resurrected yet again to complain about small motors…
Oh that's interesting!
Thanks for that info. I haven't seen those on their website yet.
So they're coming out soon?
( ͡° ͜ʖ ͡ °) I can give you a guess from Texas. LOL
WHY is dishwasher run time a concern? Start the machine before going to bed for the night. Daytime, so many choices of things to do. Mow the yard. Wash the car. Fetch groceries. Watch a movie. Work a crossword puzzle or two or three.
The more things change, the more they stay the same.
Most normal consumers don't like small pumps that don't do anything. Check out lizboz from youtube. Which models are using dual power on their own whirlpool models?
Unless you provide polls and studies done of "normal consumers" why should we believe what you say?
Talk about a broken record.
Here's my own 5min study:
The best selling dishwashers today from Abt.com:
1. KitchenAid KDTE204KPS - 4.4 stars
Compliments: Quiet! Washes great.
Complaints: Broke down too soon
2. Whirlpool WDP540HAMZ - 4.3 stars
Compliments: Very quiet, Washes great.
Complaints: Pump/PCB failure before 1yr.
3. Bosch 800 series - 4.6 stars
Compliments: Super quiet, washes great, 3 racks
Complaints: Wash/dry issues, flimsier than older model
4. GE GDT670SYVFS - 4.4 stars
Compliments: Quiet! Low noise, Gets job done.
Complaints: Noisy if not full, rack layout, flimsy
5. GE GDT550PYRFS - 4.3 stars
Compliments: Quiet!, good cycles, clean dishes
Complaints: error codes, cheap plastic
Edit: None of the complaints I read were about cycles taking too long, by the way. They were all with premature failures, or odd loading, or perception of being too noisy. One was mad about the 39db rating of a KA, but said she could still hear it drain from her bedroom, so she returned it.
Some were even about bad install service, which is not a true rating on the machine.
Again, I guess this is for others to read and understand, vs. Jerome actually comprehending.
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I thought the powerful motors were exclusive to Maytag and Kitchenaid, not on Whirlpool.
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