Whitest whites? What is the difference between...

[stevet]

On a thread in one of the above sections, We were discussing the virtues of certain additives.

Can anyone tell me what is the difference between using 20 Mule team Borax and using Arm and Hammer Washing Soda(or their equivalent generics?)

I can say that Chlorine bleach given the proper water conditions and hot water will precipitate the iron right out of the water and not contribute to clean whites, but I can leave out the bleach but still want the white whites!

As always, I know your help will be forthcoming.

 

[launderess]

Both sodium carbonate (washing soda) and borax soften water by binding to hard water minerals, but they do not sequester the way phosphates can, thus the aforementioned hard water minerals now bound with either of the above can form a nasty scum that clings to laundry and washing machine parts.

After water softening borax and washing soda start to part ways in terms of chemical composition and uses. While both are alkaline, washing soda is much more base than borax, thus harsher. Over use of washing soda can lead to rough textiles with damage like holes. Washing soda is very good in attacking grease and oily dirt, indeed until modern detergents came along washing soda was used (along with soap) as the main cleaning agent for everything from dishes, to laundry, go general housecleaning. Again, because washing soda is so harsh, it also lead to washday red hands.

Borax is used as a laundry aid, not only for it's water softening properties, but because it helps fight odours. It does so by attacking acids and bringing them to a more base level (most foul odors are acid based, including sweat). Borax also has a mild disenfectant power, which is why it was used in housecleaning until more effective chemcials came along like Lysol. One can also sprinkle borax on urine stains, say on a mattress to help neutralise them,ditto with pet and other animal smells.

NEVER use LCB with high iron/rust content water when doing laundry, nor use the same to remove rust stains. LCB will only make such stains worse and in the case of high iron water, laundry often turns a nice dirty brown colour or at streaked the same, that does not come out easily if at all.

L.

 

[eluxomarty]

Am I doing this right?

I'm not much of a laundry person but I do like my uniforms and lab coats WHITE! I use Tide with bleach powder and a little Oxy Clean in hot water. I also never wash these whites with other whites like socks, T's and undies. Just the uniforms by themselves. Is this a good way to keep these white white? Thanks!

Marty

 

[launderess]

TWB contains a very advanced and patented activated perborate bleaching system. Oxi-Clean on the other hand is mainly washing soda (about 50% or more, IIRC) and sodium percarbonate.
While both sodium percarbonate and sodium perborate are oxygen bleaches, don't know if mixing both provides greater benefits.

I'd skip the Oxiclean and use TWB in a good hot wash with some STPP(phosphates).

L.

 

[sudsmaster]

I get consistently "whiter whites" simply by using a phosphated detergent - or by adding STPP to a conventional phosphate-free detergent.

I have never gotten much results using chlorine bleach to whiten things. Generally that's probably because the soils I encounter are machinery oil/grease related, and chlorine bleach doesn't do much for those types of stains.

I believe that the deodorizing capability of borax has more to do with its boron content than its ability to neutralize acids. If acid neutralization were all that were needed to deodorize, then washing soda, which is very alkaline, would be more than sufficient. Part of the deodorizing is because borax, due to boron, is mildly antiseptic. I suspect that the sodium borohydride molecule also has some ability to absorb organic compounds responsible for odors. Additionally, borax is somewhat less precipitating than washing soda in the presence of hard water minerals. The downside to borax is that the boron in sufficient concentration is toxic to many plants, so if you use borax in your wash, don't water the garden with the gray water.

Of the conventional phosphate free detergents that I've tried, three stand out as having above average ability to whiten: Persil powder, Tide HE powder, and Sears Ultra Plus HE with Oxyclean. For exceptional whitening, just add some STPP.

 

[toggleswitch]

Marty:

Proteins (like blood) etc. are "cooked" and set in hot water. It is generally best to pre-wash whites in cool water (say 100*f or below), THEN wash in hot.

Pre-washing (and changing the water) is also smart before a pre-soak in that detergent loses much of its ability to hoil soils in suspension after about 30 minutes.

Of course STPP is always fabulous for whiter whites! Since using it a bunch of t-shirts I had that were yellowed beyond belief have come back to life and are still servicable!

BTW a nurse friend of GadgetBoys swears by "Zout" for nursing-type stains.

Zout® Laundry Stain Remover | Summit Brands

Enjoy the power of Zout® stain remover spray, the top choice for removing tough stains. Keep your fabrics looking fresh and stain-free with Zout®.

www.zout.com

 

[eluxomarty]

Thanks guys

I know Ross swears by STPP so I will call him to see where to get it. I have used Zout for years and it works great! I have not pre washed before. I just pre treat with Zout and I have been happy with the results. I am always careful if there is any kind of splash factor. If I do get blood stains I just poor Hydrogen Peroxide on the stain while still fresh and it disappears like magic.

Thanks again everyone!

Marty

 

[jeffg]

Some add'l info on STPP:

What is 'STPP' ??

[Information first posted in the Appliances Forum by Rich (spambdamn_rich) on 24 April 2003 - thanks, Rich!]: ------------------------------ "STPP" is a term you may see mentioned in threads here on THS. It stands for Sodium Tripolyphosphate, one of the group of compounds known as comp...

ths.gardenweb.com

By far the easiest and least expensive way to get it is buy some Ariel detergent.

Chemical supply stores also carry STPP, but it's a lot more expensive and virtually impossible to get online in the U.S. (unless you're a member of the corporate fascist state).

 

[mattl]

Stale smelling laundry...

Laundress, you mentioned Borax's deodorizing properties, is there a better product? Much of my laundry will smell stale after a few weeks in the closet or drawer. I use unscented Tide, unscented Downey and add Clorox Oxi-Magic when needed. All my bedding and shirts are cotton and none are over used but when I pull a T shirt out of the drawer that I washed 2 or 3 weeks ago it doesn't smell fresh, same with bedding. I don't like flowery scents and for some reason scented laundry soup irritates my skin.

There was a product I used to use when it was available - Lysol Sanitizing Bleach - but it's been gone for years, that seemed to work. It's active ingredient was Sodium dichloro-s-triazinetrione dihydrate 1.25% Any idea what that is?

Maybe I should just go back to using a scented softener but that just covers up the problem. Any thoughts/suggestions?

 

[maytagbear]

Matt-

Have you tried using a second full rinse?

Lawrence/Maytagbear

 

[launderess]

Matt:

Chemical in Lysol Sanitising Bleach belongs to a class of microbiocides with properties similar to chlorine bleach. SDT, IIRC is still used as a pesticide and for water treatment (sewage and such), along with other functions. Several bodies of work link SDT to cancer, but not sure if laundry use (as in sleeping on materials washed with SDT)qualifies.

A sour smelling laundry usually means mould is growing, or at least dampness somewhere making conditions good for things to "grow". Won't bother to ask since know you do air your laundry before putting it away in cupboards. That is you do not put damp laundry or even laundry still warm from the dryer into closed spaces.

You might wish to try adding a small amount of white vinegar to the final rinse water. Vinegar is mild disenfectant, and helps control odours. Failing any of the above, there are special bacteria fighting fabric softeners sold for commercial laundry use. Most often used in the final rinse for towels, diapers, and linens, these fabric softeners control the growth of bacteria and mold while linens are stored, and help with keeping things smelling "fresh".

L.

 

[toggleswitch]

~Maybe I should just go back to using a scented softener but that just covers up the problem.

AMEM to that truth.

[Just as with shampo and condtioenr. USe less of the former and you'll need none of the latter].

This is proobly the wost thing to do and the waxy softeners acutally feed more mould growth and CONTRIBUTES to the problem

STPP: www.thechemistrystore.com

Loading…

www.thechemistrystore.com

 

[toggleswitch]

HECK posted again w/out a proof read. Sorry !

 

[toggleswitch]

~Much of my laundry will smell stale after a few weeks in the closet or drawer.

It is important to air-out one's cupboards. I leave my bedroom window open an inch every morning with the sheets down (bed unmade) and my closet doors )and some dresser drawers) open for about an hour.

Allow home humidity should stay between 35& and 60% relative humidity all year round. More encourages mould growth.

Cedar blocks in one's drawers maintain freshness and keep the moths away. Of course those horrible little magazine index card spacers that reek of perfumes and colognes make for a fresher drawer as well.

Matt, I'd look into finding the cause of the lack of freshness and correct it. Summer is coming soon and there is nothing like a refreshing summer's eve, with no fears and no worries.

 

[brettsomers]

Matt

You may be using too much softener.
Is your water source pure?
Don't overload.
Consider washing things like socks, washcloths and pillowcases in hot water.

And yes, make sure clothes are dry before storing and have some airflow in storage.

 

[mattl]

Thanks for all the input. All the whites/lights are washed in HOt -150+ water. Not damp when removed from the dryer. I'm a little lazy, so they may sit folded in the laundry room for a week or two, so I wouldn't place blame on the closet or drawers that do get aired regularly.

The smell is not sour or anything of that sort, just not fresh as it smells right out of the dryer. I use only a small amount of softener, certainly less than the bottle recommends, use the second rinse most of the time, and I rarely overload the machine.

Maybe I'm just too picky and shouldn't expect stuff to smell dryer fresh after a month or so. Unfortunately no option for line drying outside, though some of the neighbors do.

 

[sudsman]

Marty

I deal with tons of blood and heavy soil work hear everyday.
over the years I have tried many, many ways and products to produce the cleanest and whitest work. I have found that the best over all and least expensive is a warm water wash @ 97F and then a good hot wash at 140 to 150. Use of STPP is a MUST for good white linen. We only have to use 4 oz in a 125 lb machine and only 1 oz in the smaller and home style machine.
We use a non chlorine bleach and our work has never been whiter, with no fabric damage.Nor the yellowing that can occur with chlorine bleaches if not entirely rinsed. I would suggest that you use 1 oz of STPP on the first wash for 10 mins and 1 oz on the hot wash for 12 mins. The over use of fabric softner will tend to make clothes smell bad in time it will also add to yellowing and greying. Dont use more than the suggested amount or you may have problems down the line.. Use of other additives with TWB except STPP is really just a additional cost that will not really help the end results. And sometimes can actually make things worse. As sometimes different additives will "kill " the enzymes an the detergent will not work near as well. keep in mind not to use cold water either as it can set stains just as fast as hot water. Happy Washin'

View attachment 5-12-2008-03-40-40--sudsman.jpg

 

[jeffg]

Personally I'd use just the Ariel (with an extra pop of STPP if you have very hard water), then use TWB only if needed. Tide and other enzyme-based detergents have problems to start (they simply cannot be rinsed completely), and TWB/other perborate/percarbonate bleaches damage and eventually destroy the body of many clothing fibers. You might not see any fabric damage, but you'll sure feel a difference after one or several hot water washes in TWB. Your t-shirts and socks will be able to serve double duty as sandpaper.

 

[launderess]

Enzymes do not cause textiles to feel hard nor change their hand in any way. High pH levels such as when too much soda is used will cause a rough hand to laundered textiles.

Enzymes have been one of the modern great advances of laundry in the 20th century, without them one would be back to doing laundry with high water temeratures and lots of chlorine bleach.

L.