"Who Killed The Electric Car" The movie..

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Pete...you can always drive the Fleetwood! But remember, I get to drive your car (Japanese, Korean, German or your own design) and play with your toys when I come to visit!!!

NeptuneBob...I think some companies are better than others with their leasing options. With new BMWs, all the maintenance is covered. We just had the major service done on my wife's X3. All the brakes were done for free. BMWs have fantastic brakes, but the tradeoff is that they don't last long. All we pay for is tires. By the time the base warranty is over we will be trading in the car.

Mind you, I am not an advocate for leasing, and some of your points and Suze's are well taken. I always said, someone is making a mint off leasing or they wouldn't do it. I think they are likely making the money off the little things you mentioned, and the mileage overruns.
 
Oh I forgot-is the movie at theaters or on home video?If at theaters the Carmike usually doesn't run documentry films.thats the only theater here in town-yes the Carmike DRIED up all of the others-there are NO theaters here downtown-now they are churches.A Regal is supposesd to be built here soon.I would imagine the show will be on home video soon.would be interesting to watch.
I thought "leasing" was another way to get cars into the hands of consumers when we had "Double digit "inflation and interest rates in the late 70's and early 80's.Supposedly it helped the car dealers in those times.Either way buying or leasing cars is just another way they get your money-car dealing is intended to make profits.My current car I am buying.
Today the Toyota Hybrids use Nickel metal hydride batteries-their Prius line,The Highlander-and now--just indroduced-the Camery Hybrids.Could the Camery Hybrid be the first full sized sedan Hybrid?In talking to the techs at the Toyota dealer here-they have not had to replace ANY of the Hydride propulsion batteries in any of the first generation Prius hybrids-whats that --5 years of use?Toyota claims the batteries should last the life of the car.They are made by Panasonic's battery division.
Yes,I can agree on Radio-When I worked in it-all markets had their musical "personalities" now its just McDonalds radio by the central NO TALENT PD's at the big radio companies-I liked the FCC's "Ownership limits"they limited the number of stations you could own in both the local markets and overall.I would like these to return.Radio station owners fail to remember that folks have other choices when it comes to music----lets see esp in cars--CD,cassettes,MP3,now IPODs,and it goes on.I listen to CD's and cassettes more than the radio these days-Radio music today is BORING and largely depressing.Sorry to get off the orig subject of cars.
I am hoping electric vehicles take off with the surging gas and unstable gas prices--lets see they just went up 11cents a gallon this week!!Guess to reflect the usage over the Forth of July weekend.
 
Tolivac, it's not here in Pittsburgh either, I heard about it in an article in the Readers Digest, read more on the web site, and went here because I thought someone from New York or LA might have seen it. Besides don't we want to "Live Better Electrically" here?

Hopefully, it will be on DVD soon, even if I have to ask Santa for it at Christmas.

Strangely enough, our area has a number of abandoned theatres, so people here must not like going out to movies anymore. Showcase Cinemas built a large theatre out our way in 1977, one of the first movies shown there was the original Star Wars. But it closed last year and stands empty with 4-5 other theatres.

Pittsburgh radio isn't much better. There are about 8 FM stations that play the same mostly old songs over and over and on the AM side it is all baseball and Scream (oh, sorry, talk) radio.

As for electric cars, the EV1 was a good idea, but I think a hatchback might be more practical. Also, I would have it set up so that you could plug the car into an electric dryer outlet. That way, you can recharge after doing the laundry.
 
Movie houses

This would be another great thread in and of itself.

I love and miss the big old movie houses. I have gone to the El Capitan in Hollywood which is amazing. There is also a huge, original wonderful theater in downtown Boise I was to a few years ago, refurbished nicely. Most bigger towns still have one or two.

The Fox in Pomona was saved, but not sure what they are going to do with it. The Fox in Fullerton was saved also and being restored. These are both palaces from the 20s/30s that were never multiplexed. Unfortunately, the three "hatbox" Cooper Cinerama theaters were torn down, possibly the finest theaters ever made.

Downtown LA has some amazing places that have been either borded up or are hispanic swap meet venues. Fortunately, even if they are swap meet venues they have been more or less preserved and the LA Conservancy has tours of them, including one that has a functional Wurlitzer organ in it!

The Cinedome in Hollywood was restored, and has three original Cinerama projectors installed. While it shows regular films in its amazing dome, it occasionally fires up the three projector setup for films like "How the West was Won". I saw "This is Cinerama" there a few years back and it was amazing!

Problem is, movie theater ownership is a losing proposition with high land values. Owners must pay taxes, and often the only way they make any profit at all is hitting a certain amount of concession sales. If they don't do that, they are in the red, even if they are showing a hit movie. About as good an idea as opening up a restaurant in terms of risk.

That said, should I win the lottery, I would reclaim one of those abandoned theaters, make it a specialty movie house. Feature student films and the best of local talent, then put on a classic like "2001" or "Vertigo", followed by a lost classic, and if it runs at a loss, so be it. THAT sounds like fun, especially if you invite co-stars to speak, etc.

Look out if I win some money!
 
From cars to movie houses-yes thats another problem-if movie theaters are to survive in the age of home theaters,DVD's HD-BLURAY DVD-they are going to have to change-and the moviemakers too.Lets go back to making going to the movies an EVENT-like what it used to be--the nice huge auditorium,Cinerama and 70MM projection--the larger screen-esp the last two formats.I am glad at least one Cinerama theater is still with us-Remember there was a few in the Wash DC area-watched "How the West Was Won" there in Cienrama in the 60's.Was a treat-then we went to Giffords for Ice cream!I think the movie makers should forget aiming movies at the younger folk as they do now-the younger guys seem to want to do other things rather than go to the movie house and watch films.The movies should be aimed towards an older audience and family audience.I bet they would do better.And yes the movie concessions-who doesn't want to eat their favorite candy or other things while watching the show-theaters today just have a tiny choice of concessions-no wonder folks go to the grocer or WalMart and buy their "Concessions" and sneak them into the theater.And they are cheaper from those places-you get a bigger package for less money than the theater concessionist charges you.The downtown theaters in Greenville are very small-they have been converted to churches.In one of them some valuable films on black history were found in one of the abandoned projection rooms-was said the equipment was still there-but boarded up so the theater could be a church auditorium instead.I even fixed an AM transmitter in a radio station that used to be a movie theater-the transmitters were in the former projection room-good place to get 220V to run the 1Kw AM transmitter.That was in downtown Wash DC.also I think radio stations could have the same or similar problems to movie theater if they don't change their ways-will still need those items of mass entertainment-despite my home theater--I still want to watch a movie on the big screen.As for recharging you EVI style car-the 220V outlet could be installed in the garage.that would be one way of using some of the "surplus" electric power at night.and that 220V outlet could be useful for powering some power tools that run from 220V-like a table or radial arm saw.Yes reclaiming an abandoned movie house would be neat-but a LOT of work and expense-in many of them the apparatus was removed and sold-same with the theater chairs-and the screens were destroyed.You might have to start from scratch.In most of those all you got was an empty sloped room.Speaking of property values--AM radio stations are suffering the same fate-to accomidate the towers for the station-a large peice of land is required-the lower on the dial the larger the land to properly space the towers.I have known of more than one station owner that sold his land to developers.Oh yea-please put the REAL pipe organs back into movie houses-everybody loves the old fashioned "sing-A-Longs"to the words and bouncing ball on the screen.Remember that from long ago.Yes-it gave folks something to do during intermissions besides going to the bathroom.May the Brenograph make a comeback!After all I can't have a pipe organ in my home theater!Most other folks can't either.
 
Kevin start a thread about movie theatres, I will add something to it.

I am going to ask, for anyone here - If there was an electric car that was as good as the EV1 was supposed to be would you buy it? I might have considered an electric van like the Westinghouse if I was a repairman. I know, it would put a lot of mechanics out of work but most of us work with electric products so might be more work for us.

I cannot believe that GM was so afraid that electric cars would take over to the point where they could not make engines anymore, that seems to have been the reason they were discontinued. I believe some vehicles will have gas and diesel engines for a long time and that GM over-reacted and panicked (something that I am known to do).

Soon I will buy a digital camera and the girl at Ritz said that most cameras they sell now are digital. But that doesn't mean that the camera industry will stop making film anytime soon! Also there are still film cameras but they are lower priced.

As for GM talking about hydrogen, I doubt that will ever happen.
 
old move theaters!

Anytimer you guys pass through Richmond, be sure to stop at the Byrd Theater in the Carytown neighborhood. It's a 1929 movie house that has NEVER stopped showing films, and has never been renovated. It has been maintained, and contains the original decour it was constructed with. Although it's projection and sound equipment is not original, it dates back to the early 50's. They are running Simples XL projectors with Peerless Magnarc carbon arc lamps, and yes, still running changeovers. They also have a Brenograph slide projector that they use for showing ad's before the movie on.

The place is a real treat, and upon walking in, you are greeted by the smell of popcorn cooked in real peanut oil, overlayed on top of a little bit of ozone smell from the carbon arc's. It's a unique, warm inviting smell. The theater's original lighting system is in place, and the warm color of the theater, and it's wonderful acoustics make the picture on the 40 foot wide projection screen all the nicer. On Saturday nights, there's usually a pretty good crowd there because Bob Gullidge will perform for 15 minutes on the Mighty 17 rank, 4 manual Wurlitzer before the film. Don't worry though, although they sell lots of tickets, there's 1400 seats in that place!
 
Japanese quality...

The answer is right at your local Toyota or Honda dealer...compare the Camry or the Accord to another American nameplate whatever they are calling it now. Why the name changes??? Because the cars get such a bad rep that they change the name to make it truly an "all new" model. Honda and Toyota build a quality product and are able to keep their names consistent...the Accord has been around for YEARS like Civic and Corolla and Camry. The high quality is very obvious. Just close the door of a Japanese car and one of an American nameplate...the Japanese cars are tighter and seal better! Run your fingers over the joints in the body of a Japanese car...you will find that the gaps are consistent UNLIKE American nameplates especially Saturns! I would rather have a car that is long term quality rather than initial quality. Any new car can be good at first. It is the second 100 days and beyond that count. For those 90K+ Hondas that are running around...that is just it, they are still RUNNING and getting people where they need to go. As for Buick quality...the average age (don't quote me on this) for a Buick buyer has to be over 70. Gently driving your car to bingo or the golf course WILL make any car last forever especially if it does not see salt. Why then is Buick selling FEWER cars than Oldsmobile did in the 90's? Wake up folks...some more of our beloved nameplates will be retiring before long if GM does not wake up. As for the Nissan/Renault takeover...one word three letters...AMC. Does anyone remember what happened to Studebaker and Pakard when they merged? I say either have GM disappear altogether OR build a quality non-rattle trap,less craptacular, and more reliable car that is environmentally wise. This would put the buying public out of its misery and lessen the foot traffic at the Toyota and Honda dealers.

By the way...I am a three time victim of GM crap. NO MORE!

--Tom
 
Steven-one day a freind of mine and I were in Richmond-my freind lives there and he worked for a chain of radio stations at the time-we were doing maintenance work to the stations transmitters and studios when we passed by the Byrd--Very interesting place-asked to stop so we could go inside.Wanted to see the place so bad.And of course-watch a movie there.Even from the outside-you can tell---NOW THATS A REAL MOVIE THEATER-not one of the places you see now that watching a movie in the newer ones-you might as well watch it at home.That day my friend was curious too-but we had lots of work to do.There is a point about the faint ozone odor of older movie houses that use carbon arc lamps.like steam locomotives-carbon arcs is becoming a lost art.Much like the manned manual tune transmitter site I work at right now.
 
At this point GM should start designing or have someone do it for them-a full Hybrid or another electric car.The technologies can exist side by side and probably will have to for a while.When I had rechargeable electric lawn mowers-one had a motor system made by Briggs and Stratton-yes an electric motor by B&S.the other had an electric motor and charger by --Tecumseh.If the small motor industry can do it--so can the automotive folks.Its also strange-I am constantly seeing ads on the tV about GM new "Hummer3"I guess a toned down version of GM's premier gas guzzler.You had to have your own oil well to run one of those Hummer things-and they broke down a lot.I had seen my share of stalled ones when I lived in Wash DC a few years ago.Now these new ads show a man driving one and a womam and her kids riding in one-I guess for the lady-thats the real soccer Mom!The newer one gets 20Mi per gallon-better but not ideal.It seems like GM pays a FORTUNE on ads for their cars-guess to try to buck up their sagging sales.Buicks,Cadillacs,Lincolins,etc-yes those are the "Rolling Sofa" cars-can see why the older folks like them-I spent many a road trip with my Mom and Stepdad in the Buicks-they were sure MORE comfortable than the IH "Travelall" that my dad had.I went for "Roadtrips" in both-beleive me the Buicks were so much better.i think the builders of these cars are now trying to make models of them(smaller and more sporty) appeal to younger buyers.makes some sense.The younger guys can "Connect" it to the bigger older car their folks had.
 
About poor PR...

After reading about all this with the electric car, I have a question about drivers who like GM cars. Even if they have some good products, how can you spent thousands of dollars to buy from a company that has such poor public relations? I just can't do that. Now, I do believe GM sells well in Pittsburgh becuase of the seniors who remember GM cars in the 50s. But now I find that even though many seniors want to buy a Buick to be the last car they ever buy, most of them are outliving their cars and so have to buy another GM car after 5 years. I can understand saving American jobs. There is a GM plant in West Mifflin, that makes door panels for GM trucks. But that plant will close this time next year as GM "refocuses its goals". Is there product out there that good to buy from an arrogant company?

I find this problem with the hospital I do work for too. They claim to be "The best community hospital in America" but their public relations is awful, sooooo arrogant. I have never had to use a hospital but even though the medical care is first class I might think twice.
 
I would occasionally see an EV1 on local SF Bay Area freeways in the 90's. But they were pretty rare.

Environmentally speaking, electric cars are not all that great. That's because fossil fuel in large part must still be burned to generate the electricity to power the car. True, it can be done in a stationary plant with modern pollution controls, but there is energy loss in generation and transmission of the electricity to the car. A consumer might wind up saving a bit because various local, state, and federal gasoline taxes are not tacked onto the electric bill to power the car, but on the other hand there is tiered residential electricity rating that charges over twice as much per kWH consumed when consumption rises above a certain base level. For a while I think there was a rate break for people with electric cars, but i'm not sure that this break is still in place, or how much it actually saved.

Ideally one would have a solar generating installation at home which would be used to charge batteries (or feed back into the grid), for later recharging of the batteries in an electric car. But then there is still the issue of limited range due to the problems of storing enough juice in the car's batteries.

Anyway, I think the above reasons are why the Greens didn't jump on the electric car bandwagon back in the 90's. It wasn't due to cold feet or lack of committment - it was because at the time, the electric car didn't make enough environmental sense to rally around.

With regard to the battery disposal issue - that's a real one. I understand that these days many if not most of our old car batteries are sent to Asia or Mexico for dismantling and recycling of the lead content. It's a nasty business and of course it's cheaper when done in places with low wages, no unions, and few if any health/environmental regulations. But I also recall a little baylet in this area that was filled with old batteries that were dumped there. At least that mess is gone now.
 
Rich, since you live in SF I wonder if the movie is showing there and if you have seen it. Give us a critique!

Oh, also, do you buy GM cars?
 
Cars and Longevity

I worked for a consortium of 53 food manufacturers and covered 5 states. My children wanted a rural environment to have horses, so we lived in in a farm community. For six years, I commuted 108 miles each direction to work, in Seattle and then drove all day long, to make presentations. No car, of any model or year, ever proved itself as indestructable as the Toyota Camry. 300,000 without any major repair is common. The Camry is also much quieter and softer riding than Honda. Just read Consumer Reports and they usually downrate Camry for it's lack of road feel. NO ONE, whose sorry ass is in a car 2,000 miles a week wants f&&king "road feel".
I needed to haul so much food and equipment, the logical choice was a mini van, but all vans, I have been in, place the steering wheel too far away from the seat, so I was always reaching for the wheel. My solution was the Lincoln Town Car. Capacious, silent, smooth, powerful, indestructable, inexpensive to operate and you lived in the lap of luxury while commuting. I bought them used, at 100,000 for around $3,000. The year didn't matter as long as it was a 302 fuel injected. I would drive them another 200,000, getting an average of 23 MPG. I would source a replacement, sell the old for $1,000 when it hit 300,000 miles. I received a car allowance of $675.00 a month. I pocketed money every payday, while coworkers sweated mileage penalties on the rentals they were packed in, like sardines. Anything I wasted in fossil fuel was far compensated by not using the resources to build the 5 new compacts, I would have rented, in that space of time. Between commuting to work, commuting for work and then running around with my family, I drove 1,500 to 2,000 miles a week. I deserved a luxury car, since most of my waking hours were spent in it.
Kelly
 
Mixfinder, at least you used a sedan rather than an SUV and maybe for you, you have to have a car. I think even the town car would get better mileage than an SUV, because you don't have to carry around the heavy four wheel drive apparatus. I wonder did you buy the Town Cars from seniors and later sold it to a senior?

With a commute like that, would you have saved any money if you had a small apartment in Seattle and came home for the weekdends?
 
I agree about the durability of the Town Cars/Grand Marquises. The gas mileage is very good for all of the car you get...I get at least 20 MPG from my 302 multi-port fuel injected engine 1990 model, and my 1978 is still going strong with more than 250,000 miles. I bought the '90 for $625 and the 78 for $700. I think for a used car these fairly simple rear wheel drive cars have the most "life" built into them. The only common expensive failure is air conditioning but you can still drive down the road without that!

Unfortunately I think the Town Car is going to be phased out soon for something more "modern" but the Grand Marquis is supposed to continue.
 
About theatres, there are still a lot of towns in New Mexico which have the old downtown theatres running, some still with carbons. Lovington, Artesia, and Santa Rosa come to mind. I think the one in Artesia was only 50 cents or a dollar. There are also many small towns in NM (and some in TX) which have AM music radio stations operating.

About transmitters, I do not miss working at radio stations with tube type transmitters as a job. I remember working as an announcer at a station where the power tube burned out right at about 7:00 AM and then the angry calls started coming in...I was the only one at the station at that time too.
 
A friend and I went to see 'Who Killed The Electric Car?' this past weekend. It is playing at the Edina Cinema on W. 50th St. in Edina. Well worth the money. I highly recommend it!

Here's a link to the Landmark Theater schedule. They operate the Uptown Theater, The Lagoon Theater and The Edina Cinema, all in the Minneapolis (and the suburb of Edina, of course...)

 
Chad, I would think Ford would keep on making the Town Car, as it and the Grand Marquis are based on the Ford Crown Victoria, which is, in one version the Ford Police Interceptor - What would the police departments use for a cop car (although I have seen Chevrolets as cop cars).

Frigilux, thanks for seeing the movie, I'm glad someone here has, that I'm not alone in knowing about it. Looks like I'm going to have to sit on Santa's lap and ask for the DVD.
 
Chad: Miss New Mexico-was there when I was in elementry school-My dad was in the Air Force at the time and we were at Holloman AFB.
I work with tube transmitters right now-a 250Kw one that was built in 1948-on the SW band.I find the tube jobs easier to work on-and faster-most of the time just replace the burnt tube-and you can SEE whats going on-in SS rigs you can't see anything-and Ss parts can blow without ANY warning.Many times tubes will give a warning sign of some sort-strange meter readings-or parts glowing that shouldn't be.I suppose your engineer replaced your Tx's tube-bad that it went during AM prime time!Did your station have an Aux transmitter you could have used?Also SS rigs can be blown more easily during thunderstorms-esp AM stations-don't like the idea of connecting many MOSFET transistors to a steel stick sticking up into the sky!
 

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