fonografmaniac
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who loves vintage hvac unit?
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fonografmaniac
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oh yeah!
the unit was replaced in 1999 with a bryant hi-effeciency unit. heating unit was replaced in 1986 ( the year i was born ) with a rheem hi-effeciency downflow unit. the rheem furnace is still in the house up to this day. i'll post a photo of heating unit soon.
the unit was replaced in 1999 with a bryant hi-effeciency unit. heating unit was replaced in 1986 ( the year i was born ) with a rheem hi-effeciency downflow unit. the rheem furnace is still in the house up to this day. i'll post a photo of heating unit soon.
jasonl
New member
My grandparents had a 1965 GE Central AC/Gas heater that still ran up until 2005. The old motor had that nice vintage startup sound that when "WhooooOOOOOOOossshhhhhh!".
And yes, I like vintage HVAC systems as well, and old thermostats.
And yes, I like vintage HVAC systems as well, and old thermostats.
The GE home heating and cooling division was sold to Trane.
jasonl
New member
It's hard to stop a Trane
That's interesting because they're supposed to be reliable.
Where I used to work my little office had a Trane AC/Heat pump. The thermostat was a Trane digital but it was a rebadged Honeywell.
That's interesting because they're supposed to be reliable.
Where I used to work my little office had a Trane AC/Heat pump. The thermostat was a Trane digital but it was a rebadged Honeywell.
I have seen 30 year old GE AC units still running-one is at a neighbors house(unoccupied at this time)that can still work.It probably should be replaced with--a TRANE!I used to have a Trane system at another home I was in-excellent-its heat pump still worked after a 2Ft snowstorm!Shoveled the snow from around the unit and it worked fine.It didn't go to backup electric heat.The older Trane units looked just like the GE units.The old GE HVAC system were excellent-My Moms home had one.Not a lick of trouble-was in a Levittown home near Wash DC.
Crevice corrosion?
AHA! That explains the GE-like "spine-fin" condenser (well, outdoor unit, actually) tubing.
Text below is from provided linkie.
Spine Fin Coil and the alternative:
The two main types of outdoor coils available on the market today are the spine fin and plate fin coils. Trane began full-scale production of the spine fin coil in 1968, and today it ranks as the most efficient heat exchanger currently on the market. What makes it so efficient? To answer this question we need to examine the three main areas that can cost a homeowner time and money:
Leak Protection,
Outdoor Corrosion,
and Cleaning vs. Performance.
Leak Protection:
Plate fin coils are made of aluminum plates with stacking copper tubes running through their centers. Each pair of copper lines requires an end-turn to connect the two tubes. In contrast, the spine fin coil utilizes a continuous spiral that wraps around the inside of the condenser with much fewer brazed joints. The average plate fin coil has about thirty brazed joints while Trane’s spine fin coil has about ten. That’s about a 33% less chance of leak potential.
As with other manufacturers Trane uses copper tubing to complete the refrigeration circuit. As talked about in outdoor corrosion the more dissimilar two metals are, the more prone they are to corruption. Because of this Trane utilizes ultrasonic pre-tinned zinc rich aluminum solder. This solder is sacrificial protecting both the copper and the aluminum from corrosion. A five year survey from Trane’s Product Service Department found that a leak rate of only 0.05% over five years was found in the two million plus coils of various sizes that were examined. Back to Spine Fin Coil.
Outdoor Corrosion"
The outdoor coil is THE determining factor in the continued efficiency of your air conditioner. Because of this reason, outdoor corrosion must be avoided at all costs. The spine fin coil has the lowest corrosion potential of ANY outdoor coil technology. There are two main types of corrosion: galvanic and crevice.
Galvanic corrosion occurs when two dissimilar metals in close proximity are exposed to a conduction fluid. Some common examples would be salt spray, acid rain, or chemically tainted rainwater. Once exposed the two metals will deteriorate each other. Copper and aluminum are very dissimilar metals with high potential of corrosion. Thankfully, with the unique system used in Trane’s spine fin coil to join the two metals there is about a 1/3 chance of corrosion compared to a plate fin coil.
Crevice corrosion is defined as a corrosion occurring in small paces from a stagnant solution (I.E. rain water). Even a space as small as a few thousandths of an inch - as found between tubing and plate fins - is enough space to potentially cause crevice corrosion. As discussed earlier, plate fin coils are made from rows of copper tubing running through aluminum plates. The copper tubes are mechanically enlarged inside the plates in order to make contact. The problem, however, is that copper and aluminum expand at different rates and over the years that few thousandths of an inch can grow giving greater potential to crevice corrosion.
The Trane Spine Fin coil is made of many aluminum spines tightly wrapped around an aluminum tube with and adhesive that leaves little or no room for corrosion. Further, using aluminum through an entire coil has natural protection against acid rain (unlike copper), not only because of the oxide film on its surface, but also because aluminum alloys have a high resistance to dilute sulfuric acid and hydrogen sulfide found in outdoor environments.
It is because of both galvanic and crevice corrosion that Trane has also recently began manufacturing aluminum indoor coils to further promote functionality in air conditioning systems. Back to Spine Fin Coil.
Cleaning vs. Performance:
The cleaner a coil stays the more efficient it functions. To begin with, Trane’s Spine Fin coil is protected by the galvanized steel louvers that come with EVERY model they sell. Although impossible to keep all dirt and debris off of the coil the true genius of the design is yet to come into play! If build up on the spine fin occurs it is insignificant to its performance as the thousands of spine tips distribute the buildup to the depths of the coil. Compare how a Trane Spine Fin coil compares to a plate fin coil after years of NO CLEANING-
Click here for a larger image.
Of course, we recommend that you clean you coil annually because although you may not experience a loss of performance your energy bills will be affected. With Quality Climate Control and Trane you can be sure that you have the most reliable, worry free, quietest operating air conditioner on the market. Back to Spine Fin Coil.
AHA! That explains the GE-like "spine-fin" condenser (well, outdoor unit, actually) tubing.
Text below is from provided linkie.
Spine Fin Coil and the alternative:
The two main types of outdoor coils available on the market today are the spine fin and plate fin coils. Trane began full-scale production of the spine fin coil in 1968, and today it ranks as the most efficient heat exchanger currently on the market. What makes it so efficient? To answer this question we need to examine the three main areas that can cost a homeowner time and money:
Leak Protection,
Outdoor Corrosion,
and Cleaning vs. Performance.
Leak Protection:
Plate fin coils are made of aluminum plates with stacking copper tubes running through their centers. Each pair of copper lines requires an end-turn to connect the two tubes. In contrast, the spine fin coil utilizes a continuous spiral that wraps around the inside of the condenser with much fewer brazed joints. The average plate fin coil has about thirty brazed joints while Trane’s spine fin coil has about ten. That’s about a 33% less chance of leak potential.
As with other manufacturers Trane uses copper tubing to complete the refrigeration circuit. As talked about in outdoor corrosion the more dissimilar two metals are, the more prone they are to corruption. Because of this Trane utilizes ultrasonic pre-tinned zinc rich aluminum solder. This solder is sacrificial protecting both the copper and the aluminum from corrosion. A five year survey from Trane’s Product Service Department found that a leak rate of only 0.05% over five years was found in the two million plus coils of various sizes that were examined. Back to Spine Fin Coil.
Outdoor Corrosion"
The outdoor coil is THE determining factor in the continued efficiency of your air conditioner. Because of this reason, outdoor corrosion must be avoided at all costs. The spine fin coil has the lowest corrosion potential of ANY outdoor coil technology. There are two main types of corrosion: galvanic and crevice.
Galvanic corrosion occurs when two dissimilar metals in close proximity are exposed to a conduction fluid. Some common examples would be salt spray, acid rain, or chemically tainted rainwater. Once exposed the two metals will deteriorate each other. Copper and aluminum are very dissimilar metals with high potential of corrosion. Thankfully, with the unique system used in Trane’s spine fin coil to join the two metals there is about a 1/3 chance of corrosion compared to a plate fin coil.
Crevice corrosion is defined as a corrosion occurring in small paces from a stagnant solution (I.E. rain water). Even a space as small as a few thousandths of an inch - as found between tubing and plate fins - is enough space to potentially cause crevice corrosion. As discussed earlier, plate fin coils are made from rows of copper tubing running through aluminum plates. The copper tubes are mechanically enlarged inside the plates in order to make contact. The problem, however, is that copper and aluminum expand at different rates and over the years that few thousandths of an inch can grow giving greater potential to crevice corrosion.
The Trane Spine Fin coil is made of many aluminum spines tightly wrapped around an aluminum tube with and adhesive that leaves little or no room for corrosion. Further, using aluminum through an entire coil has natural protection against acid rain (unlike copper), not only because of the oxide film on its surface, but also because aluminum alloys have a high resistance to dilute sulfuric acid and hydrogen sulfide found in outdoor environments.
It is because of both galvanic and crevice corrosion that Trane has also recently began manufacturing aluminum indoor coils to further promote functionality in air conditioning systems. Back to Spine Fin Coil.
Cleaning vs. Performance:
The cleaner a coil stays the more efficient it functions. To begin with, Trane’s Spine Fin coil is protected by the galvanized steel louvers that come with EVERY model they sell. Although impossible to keep all dirt and debris off of the coil the true genius of the design is yet to come into play! If build up on the spine fin occurs it is insignificant to its performance as the thousands of spine tips distribute the buildup to the depths of the coil. Compare how a Trane Spine Fin coil compares to a plate fin coil after years of NO CLEANING-
Click here for a larger image.
Of course, we recommend that you clean you coil annually because although you may not experience a loss of performance your energy bills will be affected. With Quality Climate Control and Trane you can be sure that you have the most reliable, worry free, quietest operating air conditioner on the market. Back to Spine Fin Coil.
fonografmaniac
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tolivac, my house is a levittown home too. does the downstairs ductwork run throught the slab? where i live at there's alot of levitt homes around and alot still have the old ge units in them and some still works. love the roaring sound it makes. jasonl, does that 1965 unit looks like the one i posted?
jasonl
New member
fono
No, I think the one my grandparents had was a little older than that, and it was a gas furnace.
No, I think the one my grandparents had was a little older than that, and it was a gas furnace.
fonografmaniac
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the one that was in my house was manufactured in 1970. in 1974 ge changed the fan grill design.
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The aluminum coils are far cheaper than copper but cannot be brazed like copper to repair a leak although I have heard of a type of epoxy that some say will work, otherwise they are disposable. The original GE Weathertrons had a bad habit of burning out the compressor in very cold weather. GE reasearched the problem and found that they had to use heavier gauge copper wire in the motor windings.
I have collected several old window units. The one I am still looking for is the 1957 Westinghouse unit that was tall, but not deep front to back, similar in design to some GE and Frigidaire units of the time. The Westinghouse had a beautiful soft gray/beige inside grill made in a sort of lattice design with 4 square directional louvers in a line near the top that blended into the lattice design. At the lower left corner of the grill were two round dials. The small one was for the thermostat setting and the large one did everything else including opening and closing dampers. You could select full cooling, cooling with outside air, exhaust, fan only, etc. all with high and low fan settings. The outer case was brown with solid sides and large flat louvers on the back in 6 squares arranged to break up the flow of hot air so that it did not blow directly onto anyone who might come near the unit. It also had a slide out chasis. The fan had 4 flat blades that looked like lawn mower blades.
I have collected several old window units. The one I am still looking for is the 1957 Westinghouse unit that was tall, but not deep front to back, similar in design to some GE and Frigidaire units of the time. The Westinghouse had a beautiful soft gray/beige inside grill made in a sort of lattice design with 4 square directional louvers in a line near the top that blended into the lattice design. At the lower left corner of the grill were two round dials. The small one was for the thermostat setting and the large one did everything else including opening and closing dampers. You could select full cooling, cooling with outside air, exhaust, fan only, etc. all with high and low fan settings. The outer case was brown with solid sides and large flat louvers on the back in 6 squares arranged to break up the flow of hot air so that it did not blow directly onto anyone who might come near the unit. It also had a slide out chasis. The fan had 4 flat blades that looked like lawn mower blades.
COOL! ...literally! I've seen that case design frequently with the Trane logo on them. I've always liked those spine-fin coils. They sort of remind me of the branches of the aluminum Christmas trees in the sixties. My Grandfather was an engineer at Reynolds Metals back in the fifties, and I believe he worked in developing the materials for the spine fin coils, because when my grandparents built their mid century modern house in the early 60's, he had 5 GE zone-line heat pumps installed with the signature spine-fin coils.
BTW, I thought Levitt homes were built with radiant-floor heating, not heat pumps, or did the heat-pumps work in conjunction with the hot-water floor heat?
BTW, I thought Levitt homes were built with radiant-floor heating, not heat pumps, or did the heat-pumps work in conjunction with the hot-water floor heat?
Levittown, NY has oil-fred radiant (hot-water) heated floors. Looks like Levitt homes in other areas had other systems.
oil-fired,that is!
fonografmaniac
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cybrvanr
my house was build in 1971 and the downstairs ac/heat ducts run throuht the slab. radiant heat i say was around the 40's or 50's era. click below to see some old ads of the levitt homes around my way including that housing development i live in well actually itz my dad's house now.
my house was build in 1971 and the downstairs ac/heat ducts run throuht the slab. radiant heat i say was around the 40's or 50's era. click below to see some old ads of the levitt homes around my way including that housing development i live in well actually itz my dad's house now.
pturo
New member
I hear natural gas absorbtion air condtioning is making a big comeback, especially in the west where utility companies are sponsoring them for rebates.
Too complicated to explain here, but very efficient compared to running an electric compressor.
Makes sense, natural gas demand is low in the summer, electricity demand is high... good balance with the smart technology.
Too complicated to explain here, but very efficient compared to running an electric compressor.
Makes sense, natural gas demand is low in the summer, electricity demand is high... good balance with the smart technology.
Here is something interesting along those lines.
A natural gas powered heat-pump may acheive efficiencies of up to 130% in the winter, I had heard.......
When temps go down to O*F it's a regular gas-fired heater. NO ELECTRIC EMERGENCY/SUPLEMENTAL HEAT REQUIRED!
world.honda.com
A natural gas powered heat-pump may acheive efficiencies of up to 130% in the winter, I had heard.......
When temps go down to O*F it's a regular gas-fired heater. NO ELECTRIC EMERGENCY/SUPLEMENTAL HEAT REQUIRED!
Honda Motor Co.,Ltd.｜Honda Global Corporate Website
Visit Honda’s official corporate website for company details including sustainability, investor relations, newsroom, and employment opportunities.
First of all, the process is adsorption and actual refrigeration or cooling is only the final step involving much heating, evaporating, cooling, separation and further cooling before the system actually cools the evaporator in the cycle. There is a great deal of work on the application of solar energy to run this type of cooling.
Not only is the Honda site 9 years old, and as yet there is no major splash on the HVAC industry, it is also discussing two different systems: The adsorption system and a gas powered engine to turn a compressor.
Those new adsorption cooling units would have to be far more economical to operate than previous gas air conditioning which was only made bearable by the low gas rates of the 1950s and early 60s. The input was over twice the output and there was no reserve for really hot weather so basically the system ran full tilt most of the summer which is something to consider when it used a 75,000 to 175,000 BTU burner to energize the system. Neighbors who shut their system down while away for two weeks spent 3 or 4 days visiting friends with air conditioning and staying close to stores and movie theaters after returning home, waiting for the house to cool back down. The pump and fans add electricity charges for the system. Friends who converted to an electric central system found their power bills to be a small fraction of what just the gas bills had been. One year the ammonia leaked out and killed a nearby tree. One year while they were away, but knew better than to shut down the system, the pump for the antifreeze solution developed a leak which let the system run dry so while the burner was firing away, no cooling was reaching the house. They are not simple systems and while they do not use a compressor, they have many parts and depend on very precise charges of the gases inside the system.
Whirlpool made a large gas refrigerator in the 60s. It had a grill at the back of the top of the cabinet that ran the width of the box and it was just to vent the heat, which could really warm up a kitchen since it used a 12,000 BTU gas burner and had to use several condensers to separate the various gases so that eventually the right mix would reach the evaporator. The little flame of the Servel Electrolux refrigerators made a good advertising image, but it was not reality in larger boxes. The system ran continuously to keep the 14 cu. ft. refrigerator/freezer cold. The system was so marginal that when the frost free system turned on an electric defrost heater under the freezer coils, it melted the frost while the system was running.
With more power companies using natural gas to generate electricity, the summer price for natural gas is closing in on the winter rates. In the early days of heatpumps, there was experimentation with using a natural gas motor to power the compressor, but the noise was considered objectionable. York supposedly uses a natural gas motor powerful and efficient enough to run the compressor while being quiet enough to make it acceptable.
Not only is the Honda site 9 years old, and as yet there is no major splash on the HVAC industry, it is also discussing two different systems: The adsorption system and a gas powered engine to turn a compressor.
Those new adsorption cooling units would have to be far more economical to operate than previous gas air conditioning which was only made bearable by the low gas rates of the 1950s and early 60s. The input was over twice the output and there was no reserve for really hot weather so basically the system ran full tilt most of the summer which is something to consider when it used a 75,000 to 175,000 BTU burner to energize the system. Neighbors who shut their system down while away for two weeks spent 3 or 4 days visiting friends with air conditioning and staying close to stores and movie theaters after returning home, waiting for the house to cool back down. The pump and fans add electricity charges for the system. Friends who converted to an electric central system found their power bills to be a small fraction of what just the gas bills had been. One year the ammonia leaked out and killed a nearby tree. One year while they were away, but knew better than to shut down the system, the pump for the antifreeze solution developed a leak which let the system run dry so while the burner was firing away, no cooling was reaching the house. They are not simple systems and while they do not use a compressor, they have many parts and depend on very precise charges of the gases inside the system.
Whirlpool made a large gas refrigerator in the 60s. It had a grill at the back of the top of the cabinet that ran the width of the box and it was just to vent the heat, which could really warm up a kitchen since it used a 12,000 BTU gas burner and had to use several condensers to separate the various gases so that eventually the right mix would reach the evaporator. The little flame of the Servel Electrolux refrigerators made a good advertising image, but it was not reality in larger boxes. The system ran continuously to keep the 14 cu. ft. refrigerator/freezer cold. The system was so marginal that when the frost free system turned on an electric defrost heater under the freezer coils, it melted the frost while the system was running.
With more power companies using natural gas to generate electricity, the summer price for natural gas is closing in on the winter rates. In the early days of heatpumps, there was experimentation with using a natural gas motor to power the compressor, but the noise was considered objectionable. York supposedly uses a natural gas motor powerful and efficient enough to run the compressor while being quiet enough to make it acceptable.
Here's an oldie - still in service
This one is from 1968 and is original. It's attached to the mobile home next door to my house which used to be my Grandmothers. These days I call it my 'one trailer trailer park' as we rent it out.
This a/c still works great and cools wonderfully.
Bob
This one is from 1968 and is original. It's attached to the mobile home next door to my house which used to be my Grandmothers. These days I call it my 'one trailer trailer park' as we rent it out.
This a/c still works great and cools wonderfully.
Bob
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