Why did Maytag eliminate the Dependable Care Line?

[joefuss1984]

last maytag orbital model

So the LAV3600 then was the same design with the orbital transmission before they started changing things up?  

 

[k1rod]

Yes, The LAV3600 was the same Dependable Care design that Maytag had been building for 60 years. It just had a more modern look to it. The only thing that I can figure that wasn't as robust on the LAV and LAT series machines as all the other Dependable Care machines of the past is the tub bearing and the mounting stem seal which made these newer DC machines more prone to leaking.

 

[joefuss1984]

Thats cool!

Now I want one just because it was the last of a good thing!

 

[combo52]

MT Helical Drive washer main tub seals

MT had big problems with tub center seals from 1956-the early 1960s when they put a SS wear ring in the tub mounting stem instead of having the carbon ring ride directly on the aluminum mounting stem. After this time they had little problem until the early 1980s and it went down hill from there to the end. The entire seal design for both the spin seal and agitator shaft was never a great design, but they did get it to work for a long period of time. It will always be one of many weak points of the Dependable Care washers, like WP Belt Drive washers and GE FF washers it is easy to see why none of these machines could be built today, it would make no sense at all as the reliability of these otherwise great machines can't begin to compete with what they are building today.

 

[k1rod]

the reliability of these otherwise great machines can't begin to compete with what they are building today.
<a name="endCOMX_40479.23"></a><a name="end_40479.23">
</a>I am a little bit confused by this...  My experience (as well as that of many others) has been that new machines do not last anywhere near as long as older machines did, and that out of the old machines, the Dependable Care machines were about the most durable and robust.  I have heard of DC machines that lasted 25 years under very heavy and sometimes abusive service.  I can't think of any currently produced "mainstream" machine that would do that...  Maybe a Speed Queen or Miele but not any Whirlpool's, GE's or new Maytags...  My perception is that new machines (for the most part) are designed with about an 8 year lifespan in mind.  Am I missing something here?

 

[combo52]

New Appliance Reliablity

Am I Missing something, probably yes.

 

The only way we will know how many of today's washers-dryers etc will last 15, 20, 25, 30, 35 years will be to stick around and see. I do know, because I was there selling MTs and WPs in the 70s and beyond and know how they have held up and now I am selling new machines today and they are holding up MUCH better than the appliances of the 60s and 70s did by a long shot.

 

Time will tell and if you or anyone else can PROVE otherwise or have a working crystal ball I am all ears. But just like most consumer products and automobiles there are far fewer problems and people are keeping these products far longer than ever.

 

[kenmore71]

John, I agree with you, on the whole, about newer appliances. The DD WP is, on the whole, more reliable and MUCH easier to repair than a DC Maytag. That said, I do love working on the old Maytag machines. I think we will have to agree to disagree about actual washing performance

One question I have: My mother bought a WP Duet Sport 3 years ago. About 6 months ago it started making a god-awful grinding sound during the spin. The experts were consulted and it was determined that her $800 washer needed $850 worth of repairs. Is this a fluke? Since it's in a room with a door that can be closed that's what she has been doing for the last 6 months. I expect to get a call any day that it is finally dead. At that point I will probably try to talk her into a Speed Queen AFN50F. The $1850 list is a bit intimidating, however. That said, adjusted for inflation, my Maytag A806 which was bought for $288 in 1967 would cost $1984 in 2012 dollars according to the CPI inflation adjuster.

I did FINALLY prevail upon her about 2 months ago to let me replace her poorly functioning Maytag/Amana tall-tub DW with a lightly used 2007 true Kenmore UltraWash standard tub. She sings its praises every time we speak! Until that damned Maytag TT dishwasher the only dishwashers she knew were a 1976 WU601 and a 1997 Kenmore UltraWash. She now has a machine worthy of that tradition!

 

[k1rod]

The only way we will know how many of today's washers-dryers etc will last 15, 20, 25, 30, 35 years will be to stick around and see.

 

Maybe some of these machines will last that long.  We just don't know.  What I do know is that I am seeing many modern machines with "uneconomical to repair" failures, within two to five years from their in service date.  The AmanaTags is a prime example, so were the Neptunes (before they redesigned almost every part of them) before that.  I troll CL looking for classic vintage machines and what I mostly find is modern machines that are either dead and sold for parts or work so poorly, the owner doesn't want them anymore.  I bought a new GE refrigerator a few years ago and before the machine was three years old it was making a bizarre clicking noise and not cooling.  Turns out the main control board in it was bad and that was a $325 repair.  After that the ice maker started crapping plastic gear parts into my ice cubes just before it refused to make any more ice.  Another $175 repair.  Back in 1998 I bought a Neptune Washer.  That machine needed a major repair every year for the first 8 years I owned it.  (New control board twice, New motor and motor control, new wax motors, new timer, new boot seal, new tub because the bearing went bad) The only part I haven't had to replace on that machine was the water pump.  About 7 years ago I bought a Bosch dishwasher for about $800.  Very quiet.  But when it was about 4 1/2 years old, the main control board on it went out.  Another "Not worth the cost to repair".   I replaced it with a TOL Jenn Air dishwasher.  This one lasted a year before the stainless steel tub (where the heating element went through) rusted through and started leaking.  I had to fight with Whirlpool for two months finally threatening legal action to get them to honor their warranty and replace the thing!  I guess my point is is that from my experience, I keep trying to buy and pay for high quality TOL stuff and I keep ending up with a handful of s**t.  So I don't have warm feelings towards newer appliances.

 

I just don't remember this kind of thing happening back in the 60's and 70's.  You bought a refrigerator, it was good for 20 years at least.  A washing machine was good for about 10 years before needing any repair, A Kitchen Aid dishwasher would likely last 25 years as well.  And manufacturers weren't trying to slime their way out of honoring their warranty's. 

 

[DirectDriveDave]

I have heard some people say on here that some BOL modern are actually more reliable, less things to break down I'm guessing.

 

[MaytagA710]

Current appliance reliability

There has been, is, and always will be good appliances, and crappy appliances. Look at Westinghouse, WCI, or even late model Frigidaire machines. Westinghouse DWs in the early 70s were not that good, they didnt even have wheels on the lower rack, poorly rated by CR. Late model Frigidaire franklin machines have a tendency to leak, and that design has been around since the mid 80s. I don't like the adage "They sure don't make 'em like they used to!" because it is simply untrue. There has been, is, and always will be crappy products, just as there are good products. Perhaps the amount of quality machines 40 years ago was higher than today, but there still were garbage machines 40 years ago too. 

 

It is really too soon to say how these new WP and GE machines with the impeller will turn out, as it is too early. Lets wait 10 years and then discuss.

 

As for why wouldn't WP keep the DC machine? Well, why would they? From a design perspective, the DC design is simple. Two screws and you are at most of the machine. No solenoids or massive clutch packs. Motor and pump are right infront of you, and the drive switching from agi to spin is also simple.

 

But then lets look at the DD machine. Its design is SIMPLE. More simple than the DC. Sometimes you have to remove two screws, or other times its just to clips, and then two more clips, and you are at the ENTIRE machine. Control panel, pump, motor, water level switch, transmission, brake, clutch, etc...

 

Being a die hard Maytag fan, who creams over older MT appliances, dreams about them etc... I will be the first one to admit, the DD washer is better than the DC machine. However, both machines are excellent performers, and where one machine lacks, the other one makes up for it. (Lets not forget, it took MT almost 40 years to add the extra rinse option LOL) I dont like MT fridges or stoves, since they aren't truely MT designs, as most of them were sourced from Norge/Magic Chef. Thats why I will always admire WP, its been a full-line manufacturer for many, many years, many many more years than Maytag. 

 

[k1rod]

Thanks Kevin for your perspective. (By the way, my family is originally from River John, Pictou County, NS).

I have heard a lot of good things about the WP DD machines. How does one identify which machines these are? I thought (I may be mistaken) I heard that the WP DD machines had recently been discontinued. Is this true?

My memories of WP machines from when I was a kid often involved a repairman coming to replace a somewhat problematic part called a "Wig Wag". Does the WP DD machine still use this part?

Thanks for any insight!

 

[DirectDriveDave]

To my knowledge, I think they are still being made, but for very low-end models.

Wig Wags were not used on DDs, they were on the belt drives that came out before

 

[DADoES]

 
Recent info told me that direct-drive machines are now discontinued on the consumer/domestic market, except for the topload stack sets.  The latest "low-end" models have gone to the VMW belt-drive design.

k1rod, two easy ways (there are others) to identify direct-drive machines:  1) the loading port is round instead of D-shaped; 2) there is no rear access panel.

 

[k1rod]

Recent info told me that direct-drive machines are now discontinued on the consumer/domestic market, except for the topload stack sets.  The latest "low-end" models have gone to the VMW belt-drive design.

And this is exactly the kind of thing I don't understand.  Apparently (I have learned from this site) the Whirlpool DD design is a robust, very well engineered machine.  It would seem that the design is highly enough thought of that it would be destined to take it's place in washing machine history right up there with the Maytag DC machines.   So what does Whirlpool do?  They discontinue it.  Why in this industry is there this continual pattern of "messing with success?".  

 

[coldspot66]

DD machines do not meet the latest energy guidelines for water usage...I am VERY SORRY to see them discontinued in their present form. They are still available as a Maytag commercial "on premises" washer (meaning without a coin chute).

 

[DirectDriveDave]

Yeah, I think the only way to return them back to normal is if the damn treehugger regulations somewhat die down. It could happen, you never know....

 

[launderess]

Not So Long As Obama Is In Office

And California is around things aren't going to change, and may only get tighter.

Of the two California seems to have more influence due to the size of it's market. If you've got something to sell that wants moving in CA plus the rest of the country you have two options: make a special version for that one state and sell your other goods/products elsewhere, or simply make one version (the CA) and move it along elsewhere the best way possible.

 

[combo52]

Discontiuning the WP DD Washers

It was time for these great machines to go and it had little to do with energy regulations and nothing to do with our Wonderful President. No one was a bigger backer of the DD washers than we were right from the beginning, by 1985 we were steering customers away from the BD WPs and pushing the new DD washers, as we could tell by the lower # of warranty calls that the DD machines were already more reliable than the BD washers.

 

The DD washer was an expensive machine to build [ it had a sand cast, cast iron transmission where the mold could only be used once ] it was old technology. It was also the most produced automatic washer ever with more than 100 Million built and it had a good 30 year run.

 

I have been to training on the new BD replacement and taken the machine completely apart and reassembled it and can say it is much better built than the DD washers and I predict it will last longer and have fewer repairs. In two years time our company has not done a single service call on one of these new washers, I think that is pretty impressive for an all new machine, time will tell.

 

[coldspot66]

@john Combo 52,

You haven't had any calls on the new belt drive washer for the nut that holds the PLASTIC tranny pulley backing out??? Find that hard to believe...

 

[combo52]

New WP BD Washers

I have in all honesty heard of that and a few other problems, but we have not done a single service call on one. We probably will next week LOL, but we are a small company doing no more than 90 service calls per week divided among the three of us that are on the road 5 days a week. The service calls have always been pretty evenly divided between Washers, dryers, refrigerators, dishwashers, gas and electric ranges cook-tops and wall ovens and we still fix a lot of built-in microwaves and the OTR microwaves.