keiththomas
Well-known member
- Joined
- Aug 12, 2009
- Messages
- 112
Hi how come front loaders did not catch on in the usa like in europe and the uk. After all Bendix introduced it to europe in the late 1940's
why top loaders popular in the usa
- Thread starter keiththomas
- Start date
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FRONT LOAD WASHERS IN THE U S A
Bendix and westinghouse were the main companies that sold FL washers in the US. Both Bendix & westinghouse quickly developed a reputation as not being very good at cleaning, spinning and also over sudsing and leaking. As the better performing top loading washers were introduced people quickly forgot about the advantages of the F L design the rest is history.
Bendix and westinghouse were the main companies that sold FL washers in the US. Both Bendix & westinghouse quickly developed a reputation as not being very good at cleaning, spinning and also over sudsing and leaking. As the better performing top loading washers were introduced people quickly forgot about the advantages of the F L design the rest is history.
toggleswitch2
Well-known member
- Joined
- May 23, 2008
- Messages
- 5,000
Top-loading washers were (and still are) faster, larger capacity, rinsed better and didn't need to be bolted down.
They degrease and de-mud very well.
They degrease and de-mud very well.
maytagmark
Well-known member
They just don't have anything to compare thier washers to, same thing with thier cars, I love European cars,have owned several,but if the Europeans had a top load washer and a Lincoln Town Car, they would be saying "Where have you been all my life" I should probably Duck and Run.
"They say"
Everyone's mother tried an electric stove in 1935 and decided gas was faster and it stuck. Everyone's mother tried a dishwahser in 1952 and decided they don't clean and now they rinse all their dishes. The first notable front loading washer was Bendix, which did need to be bolted down and they had a small tub. Everyone's mother had a story about front loaders and so they wouldn't consider having one. Westinghouse was not a brand well marketed in the Northwest and so the front load in roads weren't forged here. I must say that I have been using my front loader for several mopnths and I did have to change the methods I was used to to obtain clean laundry. I still prefer the ease and eashability of top loaders
Everyone's mother tried an electric stove in 1935 and decided gas was faster and it stuck. Everyone's mother tried a dishwahser in 1952 and decided they don't clean and now they rinse all their dishes. The first notable front loading washer was Bendix, which did need to be bolted down and they had a small tub. Everyone's mother had a story about front loaders and so they wouldn't consider having one. Westinghouse was not a brand well marketed in the Northwest and so the front load in roads weren't forged here. I must say that I have been using my front loader for several mopnths and I did have to change the methods I was used to to obtain clean laundry. I still prefer the ease and eashability of top loaders
cfz2882
Well-known member
wringer washers started the habit?
wringer washers were very common in the 1930s and'40s,so top
load automatics probably evolved from those after ww2 finished
Wasn't untill the mid 1990s that front loads started to
reappear in the u.s.,though westinghouse made their oval
window front loads up till 1991 or so.
wringer washers were very common in the 1930s and'40s,so top
load automatics probably evolved from those after ww2 finished
Wasn't untill the mid 1990s that front loads started to
reappear in the u.s.,though westinghouse made their oval
window front loads up till 1991 or so.
laundromat
Well-known member
two reasons
1.Proctor and Gamble introduced detergents to replace soap. Tide's advertising used the term "Oceans of suds" on their packages "brainwashing" us that the more suds you see,the cleaner your clothes will get.So,unlike top loading automatics and wringer or spinner semi automatics,the factors of less water and high suds would not only have caused the suds to billow up so high they'd spew out of every nook and cranny of front loaders leaving a huge mess on the floor,but would also retard or slow down the tumble and spin speeds straining their motors and pumps causing them to need service.Where I grew up,the builder supplied Westinghouse Laundromat washers and dryers and,after just a few years of use,many of them would wind up either along side the owner's house or on the sidewalk for bulk pick up.
2.Most people do not like to bend over to load and unload their wash.Back then,unless you built a strong concrete base about 20"high off the floor to place your "Laundromat Twins" making it a breeze to load and unload them,you'd probably wind up buying some Done's Pills ,Ben Gay,Deep Heating Rub or make an appointment to go see your chiropractor.Around 1970-1972 ,Westinghouse introduced their Laundromat Space mates known as the "Higher dryer" and the "Taller Tumbler". They both had drawers to store all your detergents and other laundry aids and were reintroduced by Whirlpool around 1998.Frigidaire and Maytag both had risers to make loading and unloading a breeze but,Whirlpool was the first to include the drawer.Somehow,I'm remembering,a while ago,there was the advertisement here showing the Laundromat pair with the drawers.
"You can be sure....if it's Westinghouse!"
1.Proctor and Gamble introduced detergents to replace soap. Tide's advertising used the term "Oceans of suds" on their packages "brainwashing" us that the more suds you see,the cleaner your clothes will get.So,unlike top loading automatics and wringer or spinner semi automatics,the factors of less water and high suds would not only have caused the suds to billow up so high they'd spew out of every nook and cranny of front loaders leaving a huge mess on the floor,but would also retard or slow down the tumble and spin speeds straining their motors and pumps causing them to need service.Where I grew up,the builder supplied Westinghouse Laundromat washers and dryers and,after just a few years of use,many of them would wind up either along side the owner's house or on the sidewalk for bulk pick up.
2.Most people do not like to bend over to load and unload their wash.Back then,unless you built a strong concrete base about 20"high off the floor to place your "Laundromat Twins" making it a breeze to load and unload them,you'd probably wind up buying some Done's Pills ,Ben Gay,Deep Heating Rub or make an appointment to go see your chiropractor.Around 1970-1972 ,Westinghouse introduced their Laundromat Space mates known as the "Higher dryer" and the "Taller Tumbler". They both had drawers to store all your detergents and other laundry aids and were reintroduced by Whirlpool around 1998.Frigidaire and Maytag both had risers to make loading and unloading a breeze but,Whirlpool was the first to include the drawer.Somehow,I'm remembering,a while ago,there was the advertisement here showing the Laundromat pair with the drawers.
"You can be sure....if it's Westinghouse!"
laundromat
Well-known member
and another thing--
Front loaders hold more clothes per square inch than any top loading washer out. Hands down.You are able to wash bulky things like sleeping bags,down comforters,king size bedspreads,sheets and skirts,area rugs,stuffed animal toys,leather,wool,and pillows. all of which come out perfect and because they spin twice the speed of 97% of top loaders out today,they save money and time drying as well as lengthening the life of the fabrics.
Agitators tare and ware out the fabrics they wash.The best way to prove that is to wash a full load of bath towels in your top loader and the same exact size load in a front loader.When you dry each load,check the dryer's lint filter and you'll be shocked to realize that the load washed in the top loader had almost three times the lint of the load washed in the front loader. Why? because the top loading washer's agitator and its vigorous agitation wears out the fabric,especially cotton,and shortens the life of the fabric.even before the more vigorous agitation was introduced by Whirlpool and Sears Kenmore top loaders with their direct drive transmission and their "crewel Action Agitators",the previous top loading machines,including Frigidaire's Jet Action 1-18'S,also wore the fabrics out more so than the White Westinghouse and all other front loading,domestic and commercial washers.All of which stems from consumers who want to be able to overload their washers to the point of shortening their life spans. Most families who either let their kids do their own laundry,visit the laundromat or have some sort of maid service,replace their top loaders every 4 to 5 years!! That's caused mostly by either continual slamming of the top which breaks the lid switch and will not let the Whirlpool/Kenmore/Kitchenaid/Kirkland/Roper drain and spin or just from overloading the clothes so frequently,it kills the transmission and/or barrings.Most of the ones I see at our local dump are so far gone,they aren't worth repairing.
for resale.Either the bodies are rusted out,the motors are shot or the barrings are ruined.Once in a blue moon, I'll find a few like the classic Maytags and the Frigemores I have found and are all working great after their repairs.
It's really hard to overload the front loaders. For one thing,you won't be able to close the door.believe me,I do lots of wash here.Monday,I did 8 loads for Mingway,a local school teacher with 5 kids!Yesterday,I washed 12 loads for Dr.Linda Beech whom I visit in Waipeo (pronounced YPO)Valley and stay in a real tree house while there.Today,another customer came in with 10 loads to wash.The Speed queen top loaders went through so many overloads they died a horrific death. I replaced them with the front loading line from SQ but,the town is finally putting in sewers for the homes and businesses here and the Laundromat is closed until they finish in '12.. The only machine I can use is the Frigemore and it's taking all the loads with ease as well as the customers bragging about how much cleaner their clothes are getting as apposed to the older units.I charge $10/load wash,dry and fold. I supply the detergent,bleach,stain remover and fabric softener and,as long as I receive their wash before 9AM,I have it ready by 1PM.I usually use the 40 minute quick cycle and highest 1200 RPM spin but have also used the longer cycle and handwash for special fabrics.No top loading washer I ever owned or used got clothes as clean and nice smelling as the front loaders I have had through the years.Sorry guys but that includes the FRIGIDAIRES!
Front loaders hold more clothes per square inch than any top loading washer out. Hands down.You are able to wash bulky things like sleeping bags,down comforters,king size bedspreads,sheets and skirts,area rugs,stuffed animal toys,leather,wool,and pillows. all of which come out perfect and because they spin twice the speed of 97% of top loaders out today,they save money and time drying as well as lengthening the life of the fabrics.
Agitators tare and ware out the fabrics they wash.The best way to prove that is to wash a full load of bath towels in your top loader and the same exact size load in a front loader.When you dry each load,check the dryer's lint filter and you'll be shocked to realize that the load washed in the top loader had almost three times the lint of the load washed in the front loader. Why? because the top loading washer's agitator and its vigorous agitation wears out the fabric,especially cotton,and shortens the life of the fabric.even before the more vigorous agitation was introduced by Whirlpool and Sears Kenmore top loaders with their direct drive transmission and their "crewel Action Agitators",the previous top loading machines,including Frigidaire's Jet Action 1-18'S,also wore the fabrics out more so than the White Westinghouse and all other front loading,domestic and commercial washers.All of which stems from consumers who want to be able to overload their washers to the point of shortening their life spans. Most families who either let their kids do their own laundry,visit the laundromat or have some sort of maid service,replace their top loaders every 4 to 5 years!! That's caused mostly by either continual slamming of the top which breaks the lid switch and will not let the Whirlpool/Kenmore/Kitchenaid/Kirkland/Roper drain and spin or just from overloading the clothes so frequently,it kills the transmission and/or barrings.Most of the ones I see at our local dump are so far gone,they aren't worth repairing.
for resale.Either the bodies are rusted out,the motors are shot or the barrings are ruined.Once in a blue moon, I'll find a few like the classic Maytags and the Frigemores I have found and are all working great after their repairs.
It's really hard to overload the front loaders. For one thing,you won't be able to close the door.believe me,I do lots of wash here.Monday,I did 8 loads for Mingway,a local school teacher with 5 kids!Yesterday,I washed 12 loads for Dr.Linda Beech whom I visit in Waipeo (pronounced YPO)Valley and stay in a real tree house while there.Today,another customer came in with 10 loads to wash.The Speed queen top loaders went through so many overloads they died a horrific death. I replaced them with the front loading line from SQ but,the town is finally putting in sewers for the homes and businesses here and the Laundromat is closed until they finish in '12.. The only machine I can use is the Frigemore and it's taking all the loads with ease as well as the customers bragging about how much cleaner their clothes are getting as apposed to the older units.I charge $10/load wash,dry and fold. I supply the detergent,bleach,stain remover and fabric softener and,as long as I receive their wash before 9AM,I have it ready by 1PM.I usually use the 40 minute quick cycle and highest 1200 RPM spin but have also used the longer cycle and handwash for special fabrics.No top loading washer I ever owned or used got clothes as clean and nice smelling as the front loaders I have had through the years.Sorry guys but that includes the FRIGIDAIRES!
launderess
Well-known member
When Tide was first introduced in tests, housewives stayed away in droves because "detergents" did not produce the same froth as soaps.
For generations the standard advice given to housewives and anyone else who did laundry was that a good level of froth indicated excellent cleaning action. While this is true when one uses pure soaps for laundry, it is not so for detergents.
Tide was soon changed to have increased frothing, and then it was off to the races! Sales of the product killed off P&G's popular laundry product "White Laundry Soap".
Many design difficulties came with early front loaders that Amercian housewives weren't thrilled with. As discussed they required low sudsing detergents, which were not widely available, or trusted.
Next early front loaders only tumbled in one direction. This lead to some machines leaving madame's wash in one long tangled mass. Indeed Westinghouse front loaders of the period were nicknamed "The Ropemaker", because one's laundry tended to emerge in one long tangled mass.
Another problem is that Bendix controlled most if not all the patents for major parts of front loaders. This meant for another maker to produce such a machine they had to either spend dearly to redesign a machine that didn't infringe on Bendix's patents, or pay royalties.
With wringers and other top loading washing machines, one could reuse wash and or rinse water. This was a big deal when water, especially hot water was in short supply. One can fill a top loader or wringer via a bucket if need be, but not a front loader. Reusing wash water was a very big deal, especially for housewives on farms or rural areas without plumbed hot and or cold water in general.
For generations the standard advice given to housewives and anyone else who did laundry was that a good level of froth indicated excellent cleaning action. While this is true when one uses pure soaps for laundry, it is not so for detergents.
Tide was soon changed to have increased frothing, and then it was off to the races! Sales of the product killed off P&G's popular laundry product "White Laundry Soap".
Many design difficulties came with early front loaders that Amercian housewives weren't thrilled with. As discussed they required low sudsing detergents, which were not widely available, or trusted.
Next early front loaders only tumbled in one direction. This lead to some machines leaving madame's wash in one long tangled mass. Indeed Westinghouse front loaders of the period were nicknamed "The Ropemaker", because one's laundry tended to emerge in one long tangled mass.
Another problem is that Bendix controlled most if not all the patents for major parts of front loaders. This meant for another maker to produce such a machine they had to either spend dearly to redesign a machine that didn't infringe on Bendix's patents, or pay royalties.
With wringers and other top loading washing machines, one could reuse wash and or rinse water. This was a big deal when water, especially hot water was in short supply. One can fill a top loader or wringer via a bucket if need be, but not a front loader. Reusing wash water was a very big deal, especially for housewives on farms or rural areas without plumbed hot and or cold water in general.
spankomatic
Well-known member
I remember hearing my mother having a conversation on this topic in the 60's. Clothes tangling,leaking,digging clothes out of that small hole were among the complaints of the front loaders. She just would not have any of THAT! We got a 1966 GE filter flo and matching dryer (avocado green)
Old-tech and bulky items
Though I can't speak for the masses, my '63 slant-front couldn't spin the bulky things mentioned above. If it was big, wet, and heavy, there was not enough pull on the segmented drive pulley to bring the belt up to spin speed--and the front-loaders of yore had abominable spin speeds.
I remember a set of acrylic fleece blankets that had to be heaved out and put in the 1-18 to spin and complete the cycle. Oy.
The slant-fronts alleviated a lot of the loading/unloading PITA, but I do remember that towels, although washed beautifully, took a looooong time to dry.
Though I can't speak for the masses, my '63 slant-front couldn't spin the bulky things mentioned above. If it was big, wet, and heavy, there was not enough pull on the segmented drive pulley to bring the belt up to spin speed--and the front-loaders of yore had abominable spin speeds.
I remember a set of acrylic fleece blankets that had to be heaved out and put in the 1-18 to spin and complete the cycle. Oy.
The slant-fronts alleviated a lot of the loading/unloading PITA, but I do remember that towels, although washed beautifully, took a looooong time to dry.
paulinroyton
Well-known member
Top Loaders
Hi Guys.
In the UK many people like their machine to fit under a work area in the kitchen. Most people do not have a seperate area to store a top loader.
Also, some people are on a water meter, so having a top loader with a water meter would be very expensive to run.
Regards
Paul
Hi Guys.
In the UK many people like their machine to fit under a work area in the kitchen. Most people do not have a seperate area to store a top loader.
Also, some people are on a water meter, so having a top loader with a water meter would be very expensive to run.
Regards
Paul
maytagbear
Well-known member
Many American homes,
but not all, but I would say most, even some apartments, have water meters.
My average water-sewer-storm water-and recycling bill is usually around 30.00 a month.
Lawrence/Maytagbear
but not all, but I would say most, even some apartments, have water meters.
My average water-sewer-storm water-and recycling bill is usually around 30.00 a month.
Lawrence/Maytagbear
I would think mainly the detergents as far as f/l laundry & dishwashers. In the UK, i think all of you use 220volts to run your washers, in the USA the F/l washers only had 110 volts. IIRC the Westinghouse never heated water and most of the bendix machines had heaters. Whirlpool and Sears continued the Combo experiment into the 1970's, their performance probably did not do much to raise expectations of the F/L design. alr2903
There was no choice here...
Till the 1960s top loading wringer washers were far more popular than front loaders and I think that this was mainly because of the price. Then, when front loaders became more affordable, the wringer washers quickly disappeared as everyone now wanted to have an automatic washer. Automatic TL machines were simply not available. So it was not the consumers but the suppliers that made the choice.
Till the 1960s top loading wringer washers were far more popular than front loaders and I think that this was mainly because of the price. Then, when front loaders became more affordable, the wringer washers quickly disappeared as everyone now wanted to have an automatic washer. Automatic TL machines were simply not available. So it was not the consumers but the suppliers that made the choice.
Theo
That's not totally true. We had neighbours who had an automatic toploader with an agitator. It could have been a British or an American machine, that I don't know. It looked a lot like a GE from the 50's but somehow I didn't think it was that same size but I could be mistaken. Frontloaders were the major choice here though.
That's not totally true. We had neighbours who had an automatic toploader with an agitator. It could have been a British or an American machine, that I don't know. It looked a lot like a GE from the 50's but somehow I didn't think it was that same size but I could be mistaken. Frontloaders were the major choice here though.
Turn the question on its head
to get the real answer - why did TLs not become popular in the UK
Paulinroyton has largely hit the nail on the head at least as far as space is concerned. I believe that few Americans will understand just how small kitchens in the vast majority of homes built in the 1920s & 1930s were - seriously kitchens of 7 or 8 ft long by 5ft wide were not uncommon, and we do not have, by and large, the roomy basements that Americans have. And even the majority of homes built in the 1950s & 1960s kitchens were not THAT much bigger
It was not really until the mid 1970s that extensions to existing dwellings became something not out of the ordinary and it was this older housing stock which would have been the prime candidates (given that income levels would have been somewhat higher in those) for the purchase of automatic machines prior to this time, where there was just not the counter space to sacrifice to a TL machine. I am also surprised that we had no similar effective device such as was used with portable machines in the USA to all easy connection to the faucet, so there was always a tendancy for permament plumbing in the UK, and to keep cost down, generally adjacent to the kitchen sink
But it is not quite so simple as this. In the very early days (late 1950s) of automatic machines the choices were almost exclusivly front loading, and Bendix at that. In 1959 they were joined by the English Liberator, again a front loader. But by 1963 (which I personally consider the starting point for automatics) there were as many toploaders as front loaders at that time especially in the key players Hoover/English Electric (FL) and Hotpoint/Servis (TL). There were other brands of course on either side of the fence but these are much smaller players and still, largely, cancel each other out FL vs TL.
However, another factor I believe is that we in the UK did not have the same allegience to the centre mounted "post" agitator (in whatever form) that was the legacy of the pre WW2 wringer washer market in the USA. Certainly we had washing machines prior to WW2, and centre post agitator too, but they were not commonplace by any means. Flash forward 10 years or so to 1948 and the fledgling washing machine market takes a major change in direction with the launch of the Hoover 0307 wringer washer. Basic but cheap and easy to fit into our small kitchens - using a flat pulsator. The next compact size machine, the Servis, also used a flat pulsator. The compact Hotpoints, both with centre post agitators did not come along until after both of these machines and even only the smallest of these two, the Princess, could have been EASILY accomodated in the traditional British kitchen (for example under teh draining board) which was always the pig plus point for Hoover single tub machines. Bear in mind also that Hoover machines were very heavily marketed and also have the very significant reputation of the Hoover cleaner to cary them along.
Rolling along to the end of the 1950s - wringer washers on the way out, twin tub well and truely on the way in. Servis & Hotpoint with centre post agitators, Hoover still with their pulsator ("Pulstaor Boiling Action", no "wishey washey action" here) and ROLLS also with pulsator. They were not around for long, they might not have been as good machines as Hoover/Hotpoint/Servis but their low price and "easy terms" made them a very popular first time washing machine choice - which Hoover even acknowledges in their advertising at that time. And Rolls machines were "badged" by quite a few other companies too. The point is that we, in the UK, had no pre-conception of a "proper" way for washing machines to operate, so their was no natural tendancy towards TL centre post machines. Flash forward another 10 years or so to 1968.
The automatic market now has some real force behind it, Italian machines (particularly Indesit) are begninning to appear in greater numbers and cheaper that the TOL Hoover/Hotpoint/Servis twin tubs, Persil is now advertising Persil Automatic (the first MAINSTREAM low sudsing powder) increasing awareness (and possibly desire) of automatic machines when Hoover once again shakes up the market with its new "Automatic" (as opposed to TOL Keymatic) washing machine. An "named" automatic comparable in price (if not slightly cheaper) to twin tubs and although 27" wide it would fit under a counter top (and even in some cases draining board) of the traditional cramped British kitchen, which was becoming more "fitted" in any case, and those early twin tubs (and even some of the large wringer/washers) reaching the end of their working lives could easily be replaced by an automatic machine. By the early 1970s we had a multitude of front loading machines and only a couple of TLs - the Hotpoint (centre post agitator) and the Philips H axis top loading tumble wash machine.
Note also that Hoover soon brought out a smaller cabinet 24"/60cm square, and both Hotpoint and Servis had machines of same capacity (9lb) even smaller, all the easier to fit in the cramped British kitchen, which would not be trying to fit in a fridge or fridge/freezer as well as a washing machine - items largely unthought of when they were designed.
Al
to get the real answer - why did TLs not become popular in the UK
Paulinroyton has largely hit the nail on the head at least as far as space is concerned. I believe that few Americans will understand just how small kitchens in the vast majority of homes built in the 1920s & 1930s were - seriously kitchens of 7 or 8 ft long by 5ft wide were not uncommon, and we do not have, by and large, the roomy basements that Americans have. And even the majority of homes built in the 1950s & 1960s kitchens were not THAT much bigger
It was not really until the mid 1970s that extensions to existing dwellings became something not out of the ordinary and it was this older housing stock which would have been the prime candidates (given that income levels would have been somewhat higher in those) for the purchase of automatic machines prior to this time, where there was just not the counter space to sacrifice to a TL machine. I am also surprised that we had no similar effective device such as was used with portable machines in the USA to all easy connection to the faucet, so there was always a tendancy for permament plumbing in the UK, and to keep cost down, generally adjacent to the kitchen sink
But it is not quite so simple as this. In the very early days (late 1950s) of automatic machines the choices were almost exclusivly front loading, and Bendix at that. In 1959 they were joined by the English Liberator, again a front loader. But by 1963 (which I personally consider the starting point for automatics) there were as many toploaders as front loaders at that time especially in the key players Hoover/English Electric (FL) and Hotpoint/Servis (TL). There were other brands of course on either side of the fence but these are much smaller players and still, largely, cancel each other out FL vs TL.
However, another factor I believe is that we in the UK did not have the same allegience to the centre mounted "post" agitator (in whatever form) that was the legacy of the pre WW2 wringer washer market in the USA. Certainly we had washing machines prior to WW2, and centre post agitator too, but they were not commonplace by any means. Flash forward 10 years or so to 1948 and the fledgling washing machine market takes a major change in direction with the launch of the Hoover 0307 wringer washer. Basic but cheap and easy to fit into our small kitchens - using a flat pulsator. The next compact size machine, the Servis, also used a flat pulsator. The compact Hotpoints, both with centre post agitators did not come along until after both of these machines and even only the smallest of these two, the Princess, could have been EASILY accomodated in the traditional British kitchen (for example under teh draining board) which was always the pig plus point for Hoover single tub machines. Bear in mind also that Hoover machines were very heavily marketed and also have the very significant reputation of the Hoover cleaner to cary them along.
Rolling along to the end of the 1950s - wringer washers on the way out, twin tub well and truely on the way in. Servis & Hotpoint with centre post agitators, Hoover still with their pulsator ("Pulstaor Boiling Action", no "wishey washey action" here) and ROLLS also with pulsator. They were not around for long, they might not have been as good machines as Hoover/Hotpoint/Servis but their low price and "easy terms" made them a very popular first time washing machine choice - which Hoover even acknowledges in their advertising at that time. And Rolls machines were "badged" by quite a few other companies too. The point is that we, in the UK, had no pre-conception of a "proper" way for washing machines to operate, so their was no natural tendancy towards TL centre post machines. Flash forward another 10 years or so to 1968.
The automatic market now has some real force behind it, Italian machines (particularly Indesit) are begninning to appear in greater numbers and cheaper that the TOL Hoover/Hotpoint/Servis twin tubs, Persil is now advertising Persil Automatic (the first MAINSTREAM low sudsing powder) increasing awareness (and possibly desire) of automatic machines when Hoover once again shakes up the market with its new "Automatic" (as opposed to TOL Keymatic) washing machine. An "named" automatic comparable in price (if not slightly cheaper) to twin tubs and although 27" wide it would fit under a counter top (and even in some cases draining board) of the traditional cramped British kitchen, which was becoming more "fitted" in any case, and those early twin tubs (and even some of the large wringer/washers) reaching the end of their working lives could easily be replaced by an automatic machine. By the early 1970s we had a multitude of front loading machines and only a couple of TLs - the Hotpoint (centre post agitator) and the Philips H axis top loading tumble wash machine.
Note also that Hoover soon brought out a smaller cabinet 24"/60cm square, and both Hotpoint and Servis had machines of same capacity (9lb) even smaller, all the easier to fit in the cramped British kitchen, which would not be trying to fit in a fridge or fridge/freezer as well as a washing machine - items largely unthought of when they were designed.
Al
Ahh Louis,
That may be so, but they were rare. I have never seen one in a home, nor in a shop, nor in an advertisement.
I have seen them in a laundromat. Pink Maytags (I discovered the brand name later after seeing an old picture of that laundromat). They were actually the first automatic washers that my mother used. After that I never saw them again until my visit to the Antilles where I was surprised to see people using these "old-fashioned" machines.
That may be so, but they were rare. I have never seen one in a home, nor in a shop, nor in an advertisement.
I have seen them in a laundromat. Pink Maytags (I discovered the brand name later after seeing an old picture of that laundromat). They were actually the first automatic washers that my mother used. After that I never saw them again until my visit to the Antilles where I was surprised to see people using these "old-fashioned" machines.
Yes, they were rare, but not as rare as you might think. People who could afford it imported appliances from the USA in the fifties. I've seen several American stoves overhere in thriftstores and American fridges were imported too. The first automatic washer was a Bendix (so a frontloader) imported in 1947, but I met a guy who told me his parents had a General Electric washer and dryer in the fifties. BTW, both the Bendix and the General Electric set found their homes in Rotterdam so there might have been a store that imported white goods from the USA in Rotterdam.
Dr. Freud raises a point:
Front loaders present the consumer with a smallish dark boring hole down towards the floor. Top loaders greet the consumer by opening its big mouth and revealing a large colorful plastic appendage that (we must assume)is powerful and does something marvelous.
I would bet most of the top loaders in the Fifties and Sixties were purchased by men for their wives.
...and, yes, I know, sometimes a top loader is just a top loader.
Front loaders present the consumer with a smallish dark boring hole down towards the floor. Top loaders greet the consumer by opening its big mouth and revealing a large colorful plastic appendage that (we must assume)is powerful and does something marvelous.
I would bet most of the top loaders in the Fifties and Sixties were purchased by men for their wives.
...and, yes, I know, sometimes a top loader is just a top loader.
Louis,
I suppose that I lived in a poor environment then...
My aunt had a Frigidaire refrigerator that I would have loved to have. It had a two-colour white/yellow door, very unusual. I always associated Frigidaire with refrigerators only and never knew that they also made washers until I found the AW website.
I suppose that I lived in a poor environment then...
My aunt had a Frigidaire refrigerator that I would have loved to have. It had a two-colour white/yellow door, very unusual. I always associated Frigidaire with refrigerators only and never knew that they also made washers until I found the AW website.
rayjay
Well-known member
Front Loaders Cleaning Ability
I think a lot had to do with the detergent back then. I the late fifties and early sixties, we would use a loaundromat occasionaly, and they had the Bendix front loaders in various sizes. The owner of the laundromat advised on using low suding detergents, (back then ALL, Dash and AD) where all we had then. He said if you over suds a frontloader, the clothes just FLOATED in the tub, and did not tumble and wash properly, thus....poor washability. I did try this back then with two loads of diapers. One with a high sudser, and one with a low sudser, same amount of diapers, same amount of detergent and bleach. Well...he was right. The load washed in the low sudsing detergent came out spotless, but the load in the high sudsing detergent left notable traces of soil.
We always used a low sudser even in our top loading machines back then. WIth the rise of front loaders on the market,its amazing that there are still so many hi-sudsing detergents on the market now.
The front loaders accomodate more types of laundry and so a much better job a washing and rinsing too.
I think a lot had to do with the detergent back then. I the late fifties and early sixties, we would use a loaundromat occasionaly, and they had the Bendix front loaders in various sizes. The owner of the laundromat advised on using low suding detergents, (back then ALL, Dash and AD) where all we had then. He said if you over suds a frontloader, the clothes just FLOATED in the tub, and did not tumble and wash properly, thus....poor washability. I did try this back then with two loads of diapers. One with a high sudser, and one with a low sudser, same amount of diapers, same amount of detergent and bleach. Well...he was right. The load washed in the low sudsing detergent came out spotless, but the load in the high sudsing detergent left notable traces of soil.
We always used a low sudser even in our top loading machines back then. WIth the rise of front loaders on the market,its amazing that there are still so many hi-sudsing detergents on the market now.
The front loaders accomodate more types of laundry and so a much better job a washing and rinsing too.
randycmaynard
Well-known member
- Joined
- Oct 7, 2009
- Messages
- 655
Seems when I go to an L-Mat......
That I usually see a woman or man and woman come in with a @@@t load of laundry and they stuff the big FLs full and pour the powder or liquid deterg in them to the point of oversuds and overflow. Unbelieveable the amount of deterg that these folks pour in those machines..... many is the time that I've seen the suds and water running down the front of the machine or out the dispenser compartments.
I also remember a couple of years ago I had gone to an L-Mat to do some large bedding in the large FLs and a man, woman and childern came in and there were two rows of Maytag Neptune machines - I believe 12 on each side (24 total) and they kept carrying the laundry in.... bag after bag after bag and they literally filled all 24 Neptune machines and may have used one of two of the big large 3X load machines too! I was the most unreal thng I have ever seen.
That I usually see a woman or man and woman come in with a @@@t load of laundry and they stuff the big FLs full and pour the powder or liquid deterg in them to the point of oversuds and overflow. Unbelieveable the amount of deterg that these folks pour in those machines..... many is the time that I've seen the suds and water running down the front of the machine or out the dispenser compartments.
I also remember a couple of years ago I had gone to an L-Mat to do some large bedding in the large FLs and a man, woman and childern came in and there were two rows of Maytag Neptune machines - I believe 12 on each side (24 total) and they kept carrying the laundry in.... bag after bag after bag and they literally filled all 24 Neptune machines and may have used one of two of the big large 3X load machines too! I was the most unreal thng I have ever seen.
People who could afford it imported appliances from the USA
If you were rich and had the space and amenities in place you could always have everything. Of course there were people well-heeled enough and able to afford expensive luxury imports from far-away places.
The vast majority of ordinary working-class people couldn't though. Nor could they justify the expense of buying expensive luxury goods, let alone some overpriced US import, considering that most European countries' currencies exchanged very low against the US dollar then. The annual income and spending power of the average European worker would have been half that of their American counterpart, if that. There was no such thing as easy credit and people had to save before they spent.
Mediterranean countries like Spain and Greece were very poor. If you had money there was a huge resource of cheap labor to pick from, thus no cultural or economic need for expensive appliances from overseas. You also wouldn't allow some illiterate domestic helper to operate your expensive American washing machine or stove. Nonetheless, they were available and some people had them. Doing domestic chores was considered degrading to women of means.
In reality 90% of European households had very few appliances in the 1950s. Many people still cooked on solid fuel stoves, still washed by hand or had only rudimentary washing machines and refrigerators were small. Bathrooms and in-house flush toilets were not the norm either.
Prior to the second world war, much of Europe was still caught up in its feudal past. Societies were largely stratified according to privileges bestowed by birthright. Aristocrats and the wealthy middle class had servants and no real need for appliances. The average factory worker or farm hand would wash only on special occasions, their families would live in one or two room tenements with few amenities, where parents and children often slept in one bed ate out of one bowl and where owning a pair of mended socks was a sign of the good times.
Owning a mechanical washing machine or other types of appliances would likely have been considered frivolous and wasteful by ordinary folk.
If you were rich and had the space and amenities in place you could always have everything. Of course there were people well-heeled enough and able to afford expensive luxury imports from far-away places.
The vast majority of ordinary working-class people couldn't though. Nor could they justify the expense of buying expensive luxury goods, let alone some overpriced US import, considering that most European countries' currencies exchanged very low against the US dollar then. The annual income and spending power of the average European worker would have been half that of their American counterpart, if that. There was no such thing as easy credit and people had to save before they spent.
Mediterranean countries like Spain and Greece were very poor. If you had money there was a huge resource of cheap labor to pick from, thus no cultural or economic need for expensive appliances from overseas. You also wouldn't allow some illiterate domestic helper to operate your expensive American washing machine or stove. Nonetheless, they were available and some people had them. Doing domestic chores was considered degrading to women of means.
In reality 90% of European households had very few appliances in the 1950s. Many people still cooked on solid fuel stoves, still washed by hand or had only rudimentary washing machines and refrigerators were small. Bathrooms and in-house flush toilets were not the norm either.
Prior to the second world war, much of Europe was still caught up in its feudal past. Societies were largely stratified according to privileges bestowed by birthright. Aristocrats and the wealthy middle class had servants and no real need for appliances. The average factory worker or farm hand would wash only on special occasions, their families would live in one or two room tenements with few amenities, where parents and children often slept in one bed ate out of one bowl and where owning a pair of mended socks was a sign of the good times.
Owning a mechanical washing machine or other types of appliances would likely have been considered frivolous and wasteful by ordinary folk.
Olav
The neighbours that had the automatic toploader weren't very rich. He was a supervisor at a bus company, supervisor over the drivers. I don't think she had a job. There were eight kids. She did a lot of sewing work and they didn't have a car for a long time. Still they had that washing machine. Apparently they could afford it.
The neighbours that had the automatic toploader weren't very rich. He was a supervisor at a bus company, supervisor over the drivers. I don't think she had a job. There were eight kids. She did a lot of sewing work and they didn't have a car for a long time. Still they had that washing machine. Apparently they could afford it.
whirlcool
Well-known member
I remember when a German couple of ours came over for a visit. The wife asked if she could use our washing machine, of course we said yes. She had tons of questions about it, such as "How do your clothes ever get clean in something like that?" "All ity is doing is moving the clothes back and forth, how can you get things clean at all?"
She told us all the advantages of having a front loader and that we should consider switching immediately! This woman really thought that her clothes were not cleaned properly.
She told us all the advantages of having a front loader and that we should consider switching immediately! This woman really thought that her clothes were not cleaned properly.
toggleswitch2
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Amazing that abundant water scared her!
Everyone thiks that what THEY have and what THEY know, and what THEY do, and what THEY are used to is the only proper/right way usually.
Adding heat is one way to compensate for the lack of water and the lack of mechanical action.
Bottom line is that the results in any machine (WHEN THE USER IS COMPETENT) are acceptable.
Everyone thiks that what THEY have and what THEY know, and what THEY do, and what THEY are used to is the only proper/right way usually.
Adding heat is one way to compensate for the lack of water and the lack of mechanical action.
Bottom line is that the results in any machine (WHEN THE USER IS COMPETENT) are acceptable.
toggleswitch2
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Case in point. I have only had a front-loader now for a few years. Before phospates, my whites were quite yellow. Bought me a huge 20 quart/litre stock-pot.
Pre-washed the whites in the machine with detergent, extracted the water and spun them out. Put them in the "hot-tub" (20 qt./litre pot) stovetop with dishwasher detergent and phosphates. THE WATER WAS BROWN.
Spun them in the machine and re-washed them in the automatic washer.
If you think (need to believe) a front-loader is good/effective because of heat, you should see what a heated top-loader can do!
Pre-washed the whites in the machine with detergent, extracted the water and spun them out. Put them in the "hot-tub" (20 qt./litre pot) stovetop with dishwasher detergent and phosphates. THE WATER WAS BROWN.
Spun them in the machine and re-washed them in the automatic washer.
If you think (need to believe) a front-loader is good/effective because of heat, you should see what a heated top-loader can do!
hoovermatic
Well-known member
As a child I grew up with twin tubs, right up to 1982 in fact, when my Mum finally got a FL.
For me it was the sheer convenience of not having to be in attendance while the washing took care of itself that was the MAJOR attraction of an automatic. From my Mums point of view she was cynical for two reasons and I remember them well:
1) The washing action isn't vigorous enough to get stains out (she had a Hoovermatic for years)
2) There are no suds so how are the clothes going to get clean?
It took some getting used to. Where was the steam, the noise, the smell of detergent in the air, the suds and with the case of the Hoovermatic, the splashes on the floor?
It was such a change in so many ways that she was not convinced that it was a change for the better. Looking back, it is easy to see why she felt that way.
For me it was the sheer convenience of not having to be in attendance while the washing took care of itself that was the MAJOR attraction of an automatic. From my Mums point of view she was cynical for two reasons and I remember them well:
1) The washing action isn't vigorous enough to get stains out (she had a Hoovermatic for years)
2) There are no suds so how are the clothes going to get clean?
It took some getting used to. Where was the steam, the noise, the smell of detergent in the air, the suds and with the case of the Hoovermatic, the splashes on the floor?
It was such a change in so many ways that she was not convinced that it was a change for the better. Looking back, it is easy to see why she felt that way.
Toggles,
I could say that every toploader tears clothes badly.
Guess everybody know that's false .... not every toploader is a Shredmore !
Likely different frontloaders may have different cleaning ability, depending on several factors as tumbling speed (too low or too fast cause poor cleaning action) baffles shape, cycle design .....
for sure I'm rather skeptic about US Electrolux frontloaders that have a maximum 21 minutes wash part of the cycle for a full load. Not enough time for enzymes to work. Also the 5 minute soak of the stain treat option IMHO is useless. It may work as fast cycle for light soil, not as a heavy duty cycle
If this is the case of your frontloader experience do agree with you
a hot cycle in my mieles cleans far better in the longer boilwash of the vintage Candy i've in the garage
As a clue, those old square door Philco/Bendix were very popular in restaurants, small hotels and B&B, cause they were very effective against stains and not so expensive as Mieles
I could say that every toploader tears clothes badly.
Guess everybody know that's false .... not every toploader is a Shredmore !
Likely different frontloaders may have different cleaning ability, depending on several factors as tumbling speed (too low or too fast cause poor cleaning action) baffles shape, cycle design .....
for sure I'm rather skeptic about US Electrolux frontloaders that have a maximum 21 minutes wash part of the cycle for a full load. Not enough time for enzymes to work. Also the 5 minute soak of the stain treat option IMHO is useless. It may work as fast cycle for light soil, not as a heavy duty cycle
If this is the case of your frontloader experience do agree with you
a hot cycle in my mieles cleans far better in the longer boilwash of the vintage Candy i've in the garage
As a clue, those old square door Philco/Bendix were very popular in restaurants, small hotels and B&B, cause they were very effective against stains and not so expensive as Mieles
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