Why You Cannot Find P&G Mexican Detergents With Phosphates.

[launderess]

Other than old stock.

Found this long ago but didn't bother since assumed it would have limited interest.

P&G announced a few years back it was removing phosphates from all laundry detergents worldwide. Many North American states and parts of Europe have long banned or restricted the use of phosphates in laundry products, so this isn't exactly news. However the biggest impact will be on developing countries and or those that still allow phosphates in laundry products.

This explains why Mexican Ariel and anything else made by P&G for that market no longer contain STPP.

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Procter & Gamble touts 'win-win' of cutting phosphates in all laundry soaps

Global waterways, espeically in developing countries, are set to benefit as the Tide manufacturer aims to cut phosphates from all its laundry soaps within two years

www.theguardian.com

 

[supersuds]

Thanks for the info, Launderess...it would be interesting to know in what markets P&G was still using phosphates, before their self-imposed ban, besides Mexico. India? China?

I suspect that the little bit of info in the Grauniad about increased phosphate costs just MAY have had a little influence on P&G's decision!

As for Unilever, I've noted before that their Breeze detergent from Trinidad and Tobago has phosphates. Its market is almost entirely Caribbean islands, which don't really have lakes where algae would be a problem.

 

[wayupnorth]

Phosperous, phospates are totally banned here. I live on a pristine 100 + ft. deep lake and since 1959 when my family built this place there has been more and more weedy things in the water popping up and stepping on rocks that are like glare ice. By law, every septic now has to be at least 150 feet from the water. None of this was there when I was a kid here. This pix is off my front deck.

 

[kenmoreguy89]

The articles are an interesting read, thanks for sharing.
I came to see that laundry detergents really do as great even without STPP, so cannot say it is totally bad, actually good, but cannot say the same for what concerns dishwashing products unfortunately and that makes me worried.
However, sure detergents may be part of the problem, but they have to remember that they're not the main responsible for phosporous pollutioning due to phosphates, not sure about the Europe they mention about, where they say they found detergents to be half responsible,....not here in this country!
Over here, as for elsewhere I have always heard, that the main cause of phosphorus in waters is due to farming, factory facilities and anyway different sources than detergents....infact phosphorus content in po valley rivers and lakes didn't have significant droppings since stpp have started being banned from laundry products and most cleaning products with the exception of DW detergents.

Many mexican detergents meant for mexican market still have phosphates, even Foca as confirmed time ago from a La Corona factory rep...
So does most asian, south american, african detergents.....
I am surprised that P&G decided to do that on it's own, but it's actually sane to do since pretty much all can make laundry detergents that works even without STPP....

[this post was last edited: 5/21/2014-08:08]

 

[mich]

Mexican Ariel

& Ace, does contain STPP. 

 

And I quote, from the ingredient list :

 

processing aids (sodium sulfate), cleaning agents (sodium carbonate), sodium dodecyl benzene sulfonate (basic ingredient), water softener (sodium tripolyphosphate), cleaning intensifiers (sodium percarbonate), antirredepositantes agents (cmc), enzymes, perfume, optical brighteners and dyes, surfactant biodegradability Minimum: 90% does not contain chlorine.

 

^This is from a bag of Ariel Doble Poder, manufactured in 2013. My bag has that famous, sweet tarts scent, and, a UV Back light test for the presence of phosphates confirms there still in there. I can't say I've obtained a bag from 2014, yet, as I'm still trying to use up a whole bag I purchased two years ago, but, at the current time, I can confirm it does still contain STPP. 

[this post was last edited: 5/21/2014-08:05]

 

[mich]

Also worth noting..

Is many Mexican Brands (like freddy mentioned) like Foca & Roma, still contain Phosphates, and a lot of them at that. Mexican water, is much, much harder than american water, and they simply need phosphate based detergents. I don't believe there's been any bans, or environmental laws passed banning the sale of phosphate detergents, or limiting their use in Mexico. 

 

I really do enjoy that, sweet tart scent. It's strong, but, it screams "Clean" to me. 

 

[supersuds]

Roma does not have phosphates, and has not had them for several years.

 

[andic29]

Roma IN mexico has phosphates, as does foca and pinol and some of the other lesser known brands. I have a friend that makes trips to Juarez just to get his detergent because there is phosphates in it. The stuff sold here hasn't had them in years and even though I can see the border from my house there is no way in hell I'd risk a trip to Juarez just to get some detergent!

 

[launderess]

Stand Corrected

Article was printed this year which is when P&G made their statement, so a "couple" of years would put the removal of STPP somewhere around or before 2020.

 

[andic29]

I went back and re-read the article and noticed off the right was a link to a review of DIY laundry detergents vs. store bought. Of course the control detergent was Tide and in the end they found it cleaned better than any of the homemade detergents... but the comments are great. Just about everyone who commented stated that Tide either paid for endorsement or that the test was skewed because the homemade stuff cleans all of their laundry far better than anything from a store. I tried the homemade stuff a while back and even after multiple washings and hot water, I could still smell my husbands deodorant on shirts, yuck.

 

[launderess]

Of Course Tide Would Beat Those Homemade Brews

That persons claim save them money over store bought detergent.

On the one hand, yes soap, washing soda, and borax *will* get one's laundry clean, lord knows that was how things were done for hundreds of years. But there is a reason why after the introduction of Tide (soon followed by other heavy duty synthetic laundry detergents) sales of soap based products declined.

Using soap for general laundry purposes is much more problematic than detergents and requires a knowledge base and skill set that one doubts many have today. Not to mention the harm all that globs of soap will do to modern washing machines and or plumbing systems.

 

[andic29]

Im sure that most, if not all, of those who commented have no idea what using those mixtures can possibly do. I really enjoyed the comment by one woman who said that she spends about $15 a year making her detergent and by washing with it in only cold water she saved loads of cash. Or the woman who says that she only uses grated Fels-Naptha and apple cider vinegar and nothing else and that she only uses 1 tsp of the grated soap for a large, soiled load. Wonder what they, and their machines, smell like....

 

[launderess]

Would Love To Do A Test On Nationa Television

To show these women and others using their homemade laundry soap products.

All one would need is some warm to mildly hot water and phosphates. Don't even need a washing machine as a bucket would do to prove my point especially if it is clear.

If these persons could see all the soap and soil residue that comes out of their "clean" laundry (phosphates are great for this), they would sit down and weep.

One thing these persons do *NOT* understand is that soaps do not work for laundry purposes in anything less than warm water. Hot is better, boiling better still. Would these persons wash greasy dishes by hand in cold water?

The other worry is that modern washing machines long have ceased to offer warm rinses by and large for ages now. You need at least one or two hot or warm rinses after using soap, then perhaps a few cooler ones to prevent creases from the final through extraction soap out of laundry.

In today's modern top loaders that mucky soapy water is strained through their wash.

 

[kenmoreguy89]

Launderess, there are many test I would show to these folks, ahahah.... You're right tho!

I totally agree with the fact most people would not have the skills to wash with soap nowadays, folks commenting such laughable things are the proofs, let alone the modern automatic washers "problems" that may be easily solved (if you know what you're doing)...
But heck!
They seems do not even know the basics of how soap works!!!!
I could even see a video of a lady living in a farm in The midwest, teaching kids from school how to do laundry by hand, she would use something like half a teaspoon of soap for an enormous basin full of cold water, like 2 times a regular washer wash tub. What shame such people are taken as serious sources for teaching the kids!
As mentioned I could also see many recipes and or folks, claiming it is a matter of couple teaspoons needed per wash, I see how in the filter-flo I need 3/4 of a fels soap bar to make it sudsy for a full load, this by using stpp, soda or polycarboxylates and zeolithes as water softeners, without them, I even need an entire one and at times even 1/4 of another to make water sudsy enough for heavy soiled , I laugh very had at people claiming they can get their clothes clean with that silly amount, it will never do so even if you use any kind of water softener, we all know, that in the old days of soap, what told us our wash solution was ready is when water started having a good layer of froth on it...when it started making it, it meant that was soapy enough to add clothes, these people do not even check sudsing level of the water, they do not even get any suds, which is the most normal of things while using soaps!
I use pure soap in the filter flo at times as I mentioned, even though I don't run warm rinses as you mention, i find that not actually needed, and of course can anyway get all well rinsed and perfectly clean, I see how with soaps you will need more rinses, 2 or 3, I bet these people would not do that....nor would check rinsing grade by seeing how torbid rinse water is...
Also, in an automatic if not well rinsed, you may get many problems due to soap residues not being flushed and sitting into the outer tub or seals....
So those who use too less of it, won't have problems in rinsing, but what they does is not washing, and those that for some reasons may have enough "skills" to understand that, and so use the right amount, I doubt they also have the skills to deal with it for the rest of washing process, I mean, by ensuring proper rinsing of clothes and machines...
Either way, what they will get will be dingy, mucky, nasty laundry....either because of dirt still in them or soap "cooked" on them...cannot imagine what dryer heat would do to an item washed in soap that hasn't been rinsed well, not to mention irons, granted they know what steam irons look like...LOL
As long as they're happy with it.....am happy for them, world is full of fools.

[this post was last edited: 5/21/2014-17:22]

 

[supersuds]

Okay, Andi, I also stand corrected. Mea culpa.

 

[stan]

Math! Arithmetic

The "online" formulas are a basically the same, Washing Soda, Borax, and Soap. Each of these weighs out completely different when measured by volume. In other words, a cup of grated soap weighs significantly less than a cup of Borax! Washing Soda being the heavyset of the three.
The box of Borax recommends that you add a 1/2 cup with you detergent.
(With being the operative word) Same for the Washing soda.
Following the on line recipe, barely gives you a gram of each ingredient per load. Can't see this small a out hurting the machine, but also can't see it cleaning anything! Or even having to rinse twice! After all what are you rinsing? They ain't anything to rinse!

Here is a "Lye Soap" test from last year using about 1/3 cup of Borax and 1/3 cup of the soap on white load with a stained white cotton shirt
The Lye Soap was formulated to be used specifically for laundry, not to take a bath with.

 

[mich]

There's a family

at our Church.. that launders there clothes in Cold water, with this witch brew. Let's just say... everyone purposely runs for the hills when they see them, there very unpopular, due to their stench. Only the late birds, sit by them, and that's only because theres no where else to sit. 

 

I somewhat feel bad for them. Although... One does know, that good quality detergent, is always on sale at local supermarkets, for dirt cheap. I just don't honestly see the allure, or benefits. I mean, how much money can you really be saving?

 

Also - I should probably mention, that our water is really, really Cold. Colder than most regions in the country. On Average, it stays about 40ish degrees fahrenheit. At those temperatures, nothing is shifting. 

 

[stan]

"At those temperatures nothing is shifting"

I guess not! Even with a quality detergent, I would think the water has got to be at least 70 degrees.
Sounds like the "family" has got more problems than just poor laundry habits LOL