Wind-up Victorlas continued...

[sudsmaster]

In the previous thread, I mentioned I found an endless tungsten-type needle in my recently acquired Victola.

Bob of Hollywood mentioned he's seen these before.

Today I found exactly the same thing for sale on eBay. Here's a link.

It's called the "Everplay" and looks to be indentical to what I've been using with very good results. It will be interesting to see how much this item eventually sells for (although no bidders as yet!).

Pardon Our Interruption...

 

[bobofhollywood]

everplay

That's the one I saw before alright.

Seems like the last one went for about 35 bucks.

Are you going to bid, Suds?

Bob

 

[sudsmaster]

Am I going to bid?

Probably not, I already have one, and the starting bid is rather high, about $76.

 

[athanasius80]

You know, 78s (at least prewar ones) were designed with abrasives in the record to wear down the needle and preserve the record. I wonder if these "neverwear" needles end up destroying the record.

 

[sudsmaster]

Not to worry about the "Everplay" wearing down a pre-war 78 record. That's because it's business end is a tungsten wire that is pretty much the same as that at the tip of a Victor Tungs-tone needle. The main difference is that the little wheel allows you to advance the wire on an Everplay, whereas once the wire tip is worn away on a Tungs-tone, that's it.

Victor release the Tungs-tone needle during the time of its manufacture of wind-up Victrolas. One story has it that due to a steel shortage in WWI, Victor selected tungsten as a needle substitute. Victor strongly recommended using these needles over the traditional steel type, which have to be replaced with every record play. Victor literature claimed that the tungsten had somewhat magical properties, which allowed it to wear to conform to the record groove properly, but also allowed it to last much longer than the traditional steel needle.

I have successfully played post-acoustic era 78 rpm records with the Everplay and Tungstone needles. First I "condition" it with a acoustic 78, which sharpens the tip to the proper shape. Works quite well, given the limitations of acoustic reproduction in the first place.

 

[bobofhollywood]

wondering if we destroy our records

Well, so often I hear of older fellas dying and their entire collections going into the land fill.

I say those of use who wanna wear ours down using vintage equipment - the record gods giveth and the record gods taketh away, but I hope to live so long as to play every record I own so many times as to wear out the turntable.

I have some records that I play regularly that sound much better than records than have never been played, and that is the absolute truth.

I'd rather have a copy of an Lp that has been opened, cleaned , inspected and found to be absolutely perfect condition, than an UNOPENED Lp which will not be clean and may have even left the factory with some defect. I have found this to be true 3 times this year, opening and playing brand new virgin Lp's and finding them to be defective or noisier on the surface than other Lp's I own and have played many times.

On the wind-up victrola front, I'm going to just keep changing needles, one play per needle. THAT'S part of the fun and magic, isn't it?

Nothing in life is permanent.

Crank it up~

Bob

 

[sudsmaster]

Back in the 70's and 80's I used to get quite vexed by the poor condition of some of the brand new LP's I would buy. In some cases I'd find cigarette (or other smoked substance) ashes on brand new LP's. Other LP's would be warped by exposure to heat (sun?) and almost unplayable. In other words, there was a lot of crappy vinyl being sold. But I managed to amass a collection of perhaps over 500 LP's anyway. About half classical, the other half pop/rock/folk/jazz. I still think that many of them sound better on a good elliptical cartridge equipped turntable than the CD re-release. But the CD's are definitely a lot less hassle to handle and maintain.

BTW, since I recently acquired a small metal lathe, a project high on my list is to build an adapter to play some 78's that have a large center hole. It's slightly smaller than a 45 hole, so the usual adapters won't work. I plan on making it out of some fat plastic rod I have stashed in the shop, but aluminum would work too.

I also stuck an orthophonic reproducer on my Victrola VV-IX table top unit. The reproducer is not in the best possible shape, but I can tell there is a much improved low-end sound, and I prefer it to the #2 and the "Exportation" soundboxes I also have.

 

[jasonl]

Here's something I've come across and I'm sure some of you have seen this, but it's a first for me.

It's a record repeater. It rides on top of the record and when the needle reaches the end of the groove, this thing spins around and puts the needle back at or near the beginning.

Watch the one in this video. It goes fast.

http://www.myvintagetv.com/Carsten/Repeaters/HPIM4146.MPG

 

[sudsmaster]

Thanks, Jason. I've seen similar devices for sale on eBay but never figured out how they are supposed to work. My computer doesn't play U-tube style videos so well, so I couldn't tell from this one how this was supposed to work, either.

Of course, playing the same record over and over is a good way to trash a record. The grooves need at least an hour to recover from a playing - preferably 24 hours. And of course a one-time use steel needle would wreck a record on repeated playings even faster.

 

[Kenmore62]

78 RECORDS

HIHow does the groves in the records recover after playing???BOBOFHOLLYWOOD I had the record DOING THE NEW LO DOWN.When went to play it it was gone, must have got lost somewhere in moveing?? I was sick that was one of the best records I liked to play on the VICTROLA!!!!

View attachment 4-4-2007-09-36-6--kenmore62.jpg

 

[bobofhollywood]

SH-BOOM~

rough treatment, don'tcha think?

Cute repeater and fun video..can't be good for anything...much too rough treatment on your 'sensitive' phonograph device. Sure to ruin everything in a hurry. I don't slam my toys around like that here, if I can help it.

As for your machined spindle suds, you know you know can play your large spindle hole records on your regular turntable. Just take responsibility yourself for aligning the absolute center of the matrix to the spindle.
It's doable, and in fact, it's the only way. If you notice the wobble left to right in the video that's because the absolute center was not realized when the spindle hole was punched, which is so often the case.

I'll talk more about realizing the absolute center later but you'll just have to think about it yourself first. Start by putting that large spindle hole record on your small spindle turntable and make it 'stand still' as it rotates on it's absolute center. You'll be amazed at how the playback sounds if you can stop the wobbling.

Having fun in Hollywood

Bob

 

[jasonl]

Sha-boom is right. That thing is so not gentle.

What was that song?

Something about "Short ones, tall ones, smart ones, ..."

 

[jasonl]

Sudsmaster

Off the record...

You need Shockwave Flash to watch Youtube videos.

 

[sudsmaster]

Jason,

Thanks... I turned on Flash (I have installed a little utility called Flashoff that turns it off when Flash-enabled ads get too obnoxious), and was able to play the video just fine.

Still can't figure out just WHAT is triggering that slamming device to happen. It obviously works, but like Bob I don't think I'd want it on my Victrola - especially not an orthophonic soundbox equipped one!

Kenmore62,

As I recall the vinyl on a modern LP heats up and softens whenever it's played. It's microscopic, inside the groove, where the physical countour corresponds to the sound recorded on it. I think it's the "peaks" that get a bit flattened. I guess the vinyl has a memory and will "rebound" to its former shape after a while. But if you keep on playing the same record (or track) over and over without pause, the vinyl won't recover and will be permanently deformed. You'll hear it as bad distortion. I have a couple of records this happened to. I stopped loaning out LP's because people would do this thinking it was no harm. It's possible that older acoustic records are tougher, but I still wouldn't play one repeatedly, especially not with a single-use steel needle. And I don't think a tungsten wire needle would survive that repeater very gracefully, either.

 

[jasonl]

The rest of the story...

Here's the website explaining how it works.

http://www.myvintagetv.com/record_repeaters.htm

 

[sudsmaster]

Thanks, Jason. Very informative.

Tonight I fabricated a "large hole" adapter on my lathe. It's made out of some sort of white plastic. I figure it's probably Delrin (acetal). Anyway, it worked out nice, and it was fun because it's the first time I've used this little lathe. Now I can listen to my "United Records" 78's without having to futz with centering the record.

 

[nurdlinger]

Jason

Spill the Wine

Spill the Wine lyrics by WAR w/ Eric Burdon from Boogie Nights vol. 1 soundtrack.

Spill the Wine lyrics: I was once out strolling one very hot summer's day When I thought I'd lay myself down to rest in a big field of tall grass

www.stlyrics.com

 

[bobofhollywood]

VICTROLA

Anyway...it's Victrola...not Victorla.

Happy Easter.

Bob

 

[sudsmaster]

Bob,

LOL, I never noticed the multiple typos... of course I know it's V I C T R O L A, but my fumble fingers didn't the message. But thanks for pointing it out. Too bad there's no edit function here once a message is posted... but then where would we get half the entertainment value?

Speaking of technicalities, amazing how many people call external horn windup phonos "Victrola". And then there are the cheap Indian imitation Victor and Victrola machines. Never seen one in person, but I'm informed they are generally crap.

Recently bought an RCA Victor portable "Victrola" off eBay. It's kind of crappy - the motor speed regulator probably needs attention. But the soundbox is an Orthophonic type, so I grafted it onto my VV-IX Victrola and have noticed a big improvement in sound. The only hitch is that it's bigger than the stock Exportation and #2 sound boxes, so it won't lie as flat when put into its resting position, so the lid won't close fully. So I either have to leave the soundbox resting on the edge of the platter, or remove the needle before closing the lid... I am thinking of machining an extension for the S part of the tonearm to resolve this, and it would also address the issue of having to shim the tonearm with heavy paper to get the orthophonic sound box to fit well.