window/through the wall or mini split?

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sarahperdue

sarahperdue

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So, I have planned to install three through the wall ac/heat pump units in the country house. Because of insurance issues mentioned in another thread, I am considering installing mini split systems instead.

 

Thoughts on one vs the other or either system? I'm looking for functionality and efficiency advice. I know the cost of the mini split systems will be exponentially higher than the through the wall units.

 

Thanks,

Sarah
 
Unfortunately, I can't recommend mini splits...

My uncle has a dual evaporator heat pump mini split branded as Bryant (Mitsubishi built IIRC), and has had nothing but trouble with it since installing it in 2018. Between the two evaporators, he has been through at least 4 fan motors that I know of, with a fifth one on it's way out. Getting them replaced hasn't been cheap, either, as both the parts and labor are quite costly.
Hope this helps,
Thatwasherguy.
 
Reliability

I've heard similar stories.

 

I'm wondering if there are particular brands that have been more reliable or if they have improved in five years since your uncle installed his.

 

Sarah
 
>> Unfortunately, I can't recommend mini splits...
>> My uncle has a dual evaporator heat pump mini split branded as Bryant (Mitsubishi built IIRC),
>> and has had nothing but trouble with it since installing it in 2018. Between the two evaporators,
>> he has been through at least 4 fan motors that I know of, with a fifth one on it's way out.
>> Getting them replaced hasn't been cheap, either, as both the parts and labor are quite costly.

I had looked into mini splits earlier this summer, and the units for sale at Costco have a 5-year parts warranty (7 years on the compressor). For what it's worth.
 
Mini splits, versus through the wall heat pumps

Hi Sarah, you’re in a climate that needs both good air conditioning and heat, if you don’t want to do the through the walls get a real ducted high-efficiency heat pump installed.

Mini splits are cheap to operate. Yes, but they look awful inside the house and they look awful outside with all the lines running all over the place but if you have a Freon leak they end up replacing the entire system $10-$20,000 down the drain.

I offered a practical low cost solution, which is easy to replace if any of the units ever fail, and they will in time.

But if you want to do it right, get the ductwork installed and do it right the ductwork will last as long as you and I live, eventually in 15 to 30 years you will have to replace the outdoor unit and the indoor unit but the ductwork will be fine pretty much for the remaining life of the house.

John
 
Sarah, I agree with John about a central system but understand that it may not fit your budget right now.  You could inquire if there are any incentives through your power company such as rebates for installing heat pump systems.

 

If you go with window/through the wall units, I suggest researching the noise levels of various makes along with correct BTUs (or tons) for the amount of space you need to cool.  My sister has a Toshiba window unit in her TV/guest room and it's much quieter than other window units I've had the displeasure of trying to sleep with or talk over.

 

You also need to be sure that all three units are on separate circuits, and that none are sharing them with other appliances that could add up to more amps than the breaker is rated for.  Otherwise you'll need to come up with a system similar to what the Douglas household had on Green Acres.
 
 

 

I'm so glad to live in an area where AC is not usually needed. I cannot remember needing to run an AC unit for the past couple of years. I have but one window AC unit but haven't run it in a while. However it's right in front of me, sitting on the floor by the window, in the "family room" which I use as my office. It's where I spend most of my waking hours.

 
 
Ducted systems

I'm not considering ducted systems. There isn't enough room under the house, and it has a second floor,  so there's no room for ceiling registers on the main floor. While it probably isn't the case with all houses, we are not happy with the results of retrofitting our current (1951) house with central air. It has full access under the main floor and in the attic for the second floor, but placement of registers and the air return was problematic. It has never cooled as well as the big window air conditioner we had before. 

 

John, I like your solution best; my new concern is the insurance issue which I am still researching. 

 

Our independent insurance broker said that all of the insurance companies that they work with except the one I have my policy with won't insure houses without central heat/air. I'm going call her and ask which specific companies declined to insure without air and call other insurance companies to find out if this is true. I just spoke to another broker who said that central heat was the issue. I kind of get this because without central heat they probably assume people are using space heaters or other riskier heat sources. The heat pumps I have don't have that added fire risk.

 

Mini splits now have more air handler options than the high on the wall hugely ugly ones. The floor units solve the aesthetic issues inside. The ability to run the lines in the crawl space solves the lines running all over the exterior of the house issue.  

 

I still prefer the through the wall unit plan for cost of maintenance and ease of replacement when a unit fails. 

 

Thank all of you for supporting and encouraging me through my worries and indecision.

 

Sarah
 
Mini-duct system

I believe that there is another option and that is mini-ducted systems. No, I'm not talking the high-velocity ducts, though that might be an option, but a variant of mini-splits which have a short run of ducts that could be in a closet, crawl space or soffit installation and would look in the rooms like a regular central install, but with the advantages of multiple zones like mini-splits have. I suspect it's more expensive, but would have the advantage of multiple zones, for both heat and AC along with better value for your house than through-wall units (which also have less selection than previously, even in with heat or heat pump models). I would check that through wall units would qualify as "heat" before buying, obviously.

I came across something like this (or perhaps this) via Lowe's IIRC when looking for replacement for my through-wall units.

https://olimpiasplendidusa.com/maestro-pro-inverter-12-hp

Ah, found it, similar but slightly sleeker units.

https://ephoca.com/aio/
 
We're on our 3rd mini split. The one in this house when we bought (Mitsubishi) it in 2006 lasted about 5 more years. We replaced it with another cool only Mitsubishi and they said the old one was about 20 years old. That second one which cost about $4000 at the time we got about 8 or 9 years out of it, with a couple of pricey repairs. The one we got 2 years ago is a heat pump Carrier 2 ton unit and is made by Midea and so far so good though it hasn't had a lot of use particularly this summer around here hard any use. It was less expensive than a similar Mitsubishi by about $1000.

If I were you, living where you do, with hotter more humid summers, I'd probably go with the three wall unit any of which can be easily replaced if something goes wrong. Our mini split only cools the first floor and not the upstairs bedrooms and I had thought of getting one with more heads to do up there but it was very expensive and the idea that if something goes wrong you might have to replace the whole system was a turn off. I have a couple of portable a/c I can use in the bedrooms if it gets really miserable, this year Ive not had to use them but I have in past years. No knowing your house layout etc you could always go with a thru the wall/sleeve unit in one or two areas and a less expensive minisplit or two , sort of mix and match. Theres no way but an extremely cost prohibitive one for us to have our house converted to forced air heating/ac.
 
>> I came across something like this (or perhaps this) via Lowe's IIRC when looking for replacement for my through-wall units.

Now that is clever! It's basically one of the "Portable" units, but repackaged to be flat on a wall and with short round tubes for air flow instead of the window insert. Just one unit to mount, and no electricity, refrigerant lines, or anything else on the outside. Neat!

Too bad they seem to be borderline unavailable in the USA... Lowes doesn't seem to carry them anymore, and Home Depot only carries the smaller 9K BTU unit. I can't find any other retailers, or anyone who carries the 12K unit. Also, the 9K Maestro is a whopping $2,000... that's pretty steep compared to $1,300 for a 12K mini-split. No reviews at either retailer.

https://www.lowes.com/pd/Olimpia-Splendid-Maestro-Smart-9-HP/5001836449

 
>> I'm not considering ducted systems. There isn't enough room under the house, and
>> it has a second floor, so there's no room for ceiling registers on the main floor.

Wildcard answer: Is the house old enough to use some 1900s technology?

The prior house I lived in had closable ceiling/floor vents across the house that connected directly between the first and second story. No fans or other ductwork, just short openings directly between the floors - appearing as ceiling vents in the first story, floor vents in the second. The house had been upgraded, but those vents were originally part of a gravity furnace system.

If you installed some of these, an air conditioning system in the second story would partially cool the first... and likewise a heating system in the first would naturally add some heat to the second story from convection. Not sure if it is enough to balance your house, but.. passive holes are comparatively cheap, and the period cast iron ducts are neat in their own way.
 
My two cents

We live in Southwest Florida which should tell you everything you need to know lol. We had a Gree mini-split installed in our garage about four years ago. My A/C guy said they use this brand in Pakistan and hotter parts of Europe. We had to air condition the garage because our main air handler for the house is in there. We keep the temperature so low that the air handler kept producing condensation that fried 7 control boards. It also took out our motor controller. All of this was done under warranty until we were finally told we had to air condition the garage to stop this from happening. All said the cost was about $4000. Since then it has run 24/7 except for about a month in "winter". We have not had one repair on either since the mini-split was installed. The fan motor on the outdoor unit has become loud. My A/C guy said I can replace it whenever I want but it's not harming anything so wait for it to fail. He said the cost would be $230. Bullet point, it just runs and runs and runs. It will fail at some point but until that happens, I have been very happy with it.
 
Really, there should have never of been condensation inside the cabinet except on the evaporator coil. It doesn't matter how cold the inside of the cabinet is, except when the cabinet doors and penetrations are not sealed.

Yes, the exterior of the cabinet can sweat in high humidity conditions, but everything on the inside of a negative pressure air handler should be at the same temperature, thus at the same saturation temperature as the air flowing across the board. My guess is the penetration for the circuit breaker(s), high and low voltage wire penetrations were not completely sealed, which with a negative pressure cabinet air handler would draw in unconditioned warm humid air which will condense on anything inside the air handler exposed to the cold interior.

I have seen it time and time again as a manufacturer's tech rep for hvac products.
 
Thank you all

You've given me a lot of things to think about as well as some good questions to ask the HVAC pro when he comes to look at the house. I am very fortunate in having a trustworthy contractor if I go the mini split route. He's been teaching heating and cooling in our local jr. college tech school as well as running his own business. 

 

I still like the through the wall solution although a system that doesn't cut through my walls does have a certain appeal.

 

Meanwhile, I continue to go down the insurance rabbit hole and am not liking what I'm finding. 

 

Sarah

 
 
Best way to add heating and air conditioning to a home

I still like the through the wall units you got from us through the most economical way to do it, and the most serviceable for the lowest cost into the future.

Since you’re not as concerned about initial cost, now by far, the best thing is a fully ducted central heat pump, it’s too bad that you had a bad experience with it in your main house.

It hasn’t been discussed much, but the space pack systems with the small ducks or another very good way to add heating and air conditioning to a house like yours without cutting it all up . My dad put a system like that in their house in Minnesota for cooling only over 30 years ago and it was very even it worked well.

My brother Phil is in that house. The condensing unit has finally worn out after over 30 years and he’s going to replace it with a heat pump Reusing the ducting system. That’s the nice thing about doing it right you only do it once you can replace the major equipment.

I know the mini splits are very efficient but I’m just not big on them They are too difficult to repair. They often have a short life 10 to 15 years you may be replacing the entire system. I’ve known of many people that replaced the entire system in less than five mainly because of Freon leaks.

There is nothing like a full house, ducted, or high velocity system where are you can have state of the art air filtration humidification designed into the system.

John
 

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