Would you wash at 20?

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Wash at 20?

I don't wash stuff colder than 50*C excluding woolens/silks...

It's just horrible, all my family have mouldy washers and they wash at 60 occasionally, tho at 20*C.....
 
Oh, um, washing at 20C is perfectly fine, actually. You just add a biocide to the final rinse like the stuff Henkel graciously provided shortly after they introduced a cold-water gel detergent to the market. ;-P

 

Alex
 
there is nothing wrong in washing in cold water but this means cleaning the washer with something like afresh or tide cleaner or any strong cleaner after word as i have notice that if i was a normal light soil load with the cold option setting tends to leave my washer with a mild smellof humedety and i usaly clean my washer on a full cycle with afresh or tide cleaner once every 3 months look closely at the following picture what is the mistake in this pic the answer is pretty easy no warm rinse witch also means that this washer as no water heater me if i have the choice even if i prefer a topload washer but had no choice in buying a front load washer in case one day in case of reno done in the bathroom where the washer dryer is is stack i would look for a washer with a warm rinse in case i need a warm rinse for certain things that i have wash

pierreandreply4++6-4-2013-16-25-4.jpg
 
"You just add a biocide"

Yup, a small amount of chloroxylenol does the trick and very effectively. I use it in laundromat machines. About 30 ml (approx. 1 fl oz) in the deep rinse works really well.
 
Once read

that it is the detergent which kills bacteria when they eat it in the water, suggesting that cold water is okay. I don't know if that is absolute fact or not. Think of washing your hands. On the other hand, it is always insisted that dust mites in bedding need really hot water to die. I guess it's all up to what kind of micro life you're trying to kill. Then again, sunshine can kill all manner of nasties, even rust stains. Hanging laundry in the sun works wonders.

Once while camping, we washed our clothes in a cold stream, and I was struck by the brightness of the colors as the clothing swirled in the stream.

I use the whole arsenal of temps, sometimes even turning the tank up to HIGH, and sometimes even rinsing in hot water. In winter, however, our cold tap water is very cold, well below 20 C. and it works well on colors, and many here have been using it for years on certain loads. So by default, the answer is yes.

Honestly, for me, water temps are more a function of mood and whim, but if I really want to kill, I use scalding water and Clorox, and, Man, do those mean little bugs scream.
 
At least in Europe, most of these things are options rather than something compulsory like in the US with very low water levels.

There are still machines available in Europe with "water plus" type options on them should someone want deeper rinses.

Likewise, this just means that the machine will have the option of doing a cold wash. You don't have to do them and I seriously doubt most people would.

I wash a lot of t-shirts and stuff like that at 30ºC and it works absolutely fine. I've never really seen any difference between that and 40ºC

However, I do towels and bed linen at 60ºC.

Since none of my family have any horrendously nasty contagious illnesses, I have never really felt the need for 95ºC as it tends to wreck clothes. Even towels tend to loose their bounce if you do it too often.

...

With washes under 60ºC, the strength of the detergent and the length of the wash cycle probably kill more bugs than the temperature. If anything, 40ºC would probably encourage them to grow as it's a nice warm temperature ideal for multiplying.

A normal wash will reduce the number of bugs on clothes as you're flushing them out with lots of detergent which normally should remove quite a lot of them. Certainly, enough to make it fairly hygienic anyway.

I think we're you've a problem is with these very short washes. They're not long enough to adequately let the detergent and the washing action flush out the gunk from the fabric and certainly not long enough for enzyme or bleaching actions to work.
 
Persil Hygiene Spüler

Is all right for what it tis, and one uses it now and then (nabbed a stash from Germany), but the recommended amount (90ml) means one bottle won't last long. Plus the whiff packs quite a punch even after washing is machine dried.

There are many variations of biocide, bacteriostatic, fungicide, etc... final rinse additives sold to commercial laundries. If one wishes you can see those out here in the states but you may have to purchase a job lot. These products do the same thing as Persil's hygiene spuler, Sagrotan, Dettol and so forth... added to the final rinse provide an extra measure of sanitation and fungal control to washing. Same as with rinse additives available for commercial dishwashers used in restaurants and such when "low temp" washing has been carried out.

Other alternative is to add either LCB or phenol (old formula Lysol) to a wash load done in cooler water temps as both will kill germs and such even in cold water.
 
IIRC there was a study about European washing habits posted here on AW a while ago.

There wasn`t that much of a difference hygiene wise when 30°C and 40°C were compared. Even at 60°C with a bleach containing powder used did not give stellar results in germ counts. Maybe they used one of those modern machines where 60°C is actually only about 50°C to get the A+ rating, I don`t know.
 
on my samsung, 60oc cotton with intensive option selected, 4 rines cycles, takes 4hrs and 25mins :( thats is just crazy, is there reason why it would be so long, does it have anything to do with killing bacteria. with out the intensive option, the time will vary depending on the load sensing
 
To be or not to be 20C

Interesting thread with a maze of ideas...to answer the questions..

1) Yes, sometimes but who knows a real-time water temp reading? We don't have a digital wondermachine; only three selections of cold, warm, and hot with cold rinses. But, yes ..we wash cold if the fabric tags specify cold temp wash. Example : I have a WASHABLE wool fabric sweater, that requires cold and delicate (or hand-wash)cycles.

2)...no, the cost is insignificant

3)Low-water useage and washers with mandated temperature requirements = big brother is "washing" YOU.
 
Call me the Crazy American or..

..something else (Nice please!). But I don't know what 20c and 30c's are, but I'm pretty sure they are colder than the 120-170 degrees I was in. I don't believe you can get your clothes clean in cold water and just think of all the harsher chemicals you have to use to clean in that temp. Not for me. Nice to see that your governments want you to was a load of jeans with an ice cube while over here, our government wants us to wash a load of 35 bathtowels in 16 ounces of water! lol
 
20C is about 68F (according to Google)
30C is about 86F
15C is water that usually comes out of the average household tap (not sure if thats the same as the US) 59F.

The average UK household washes at 40C (104F) - Your machines call this Warm/Cool?
 
Thanks glenfieldmathk1

I guess I could have looked on google too! lol But 68 doesn't sound horrible. I was thinking it was something more like 20 degrees or something like that. I know I can't wash dishes in that temp and the grease just slides about. I don't know why they think we can wash clothes in those kinds of temp. That must have to be some really harsh chemicals in that laundry detergent to clean and then all those chemicals are going into our ground, lakes, rivers and treatment facilities?? I'm not sure that's the best trade off. Is it just me?
 
I'm not sure that's the best trade off. Is it just

Sure for me a heated wash with little detergent is much better than a cold wash with loads of additives which will never rinse away!
Also price-wise, a wash at 60°C with just detergent is much more economical than loading the washing machine with stain pre-treater, detergent and whitening agents in cold water!

And the environment is happier!
 
dont tell mum and dad they should be dead!

Since my mother bought the first automatic washing machine in 1970 she has washed almost exclusively in cold water. If one was to listen to the doomsayers and scaremongers on this site they should be dead....cold stone dead...rotting six feet under from fulminant multiple infectious diseases. They are however very much alive at 85 years old. At very least it would have been predicted that they would live as hermits because no one would come near them due to overwhelming issues with body odour but my mother's "candle lit suppers" make her the toast of the bridge club. I really dont see what the fuss is all about. Could some one please provide some scientific evidence to support or dispute the assertions in this thread?
 
I (nor anyone else) ever made any statement that suggested someone would die from cold water washing. I've merely suggested my own experiences towards the debacle. 

 

Whilst I'm unsure about Scientific Evidence to suggest that warm washing is better, personal experience (whilst not always believed, as we've seen) seems to reign, and provide opinion as to why/why not. I stated my reasons above and won't go into them again. I also cited the fact that one of the Australian Health Departments recommends washing your hands for at least 20 seconds, with warm water to remove germs. At work, our "Wash your Hands" posters by Jasol say exactly the same thing - so it seems obvious warm/hot water is more effective. You also have to look at health regulations: Dishes in commercial machines must be rinsed at 82ºC (180ºF), bedding from hospitals is "Boil washed." This all points to killing germs and preventing their spread. 

 

I've admitted that cold water washing might work, but if you've got stone cold water like in the UK or colder parts of the US or Australia, you will have to use significantly more detergent as Dj-gabriele suggested. This negates any benefit to your "Carbon Footprint," power-bill and so on, as a burden on the environment. I also mentioned some washers increase the wash time for Washes colder than a certain temperature (Our Miele being a prime example).  
 
Why would the burden to the environment be any worse? Most (Australian) detergents are formulated to work in cold, warm and hot water and they are biodegradable. It isn't necessary to add oxygen or chlorine bleach, or any other additives - that is purely the choice of the consumer and not specifically necessitated by cold water washing.

Laundry additives are also sold to European housewives with the promise of a cleaner and brighter wash. That suggests washing laundry at various temperatures, using only one detergent, is not yielding the desired results for everyone?

Cold water washing, millions of people do it all over the world and it works for them, or they wouldn't be doing it. They are no dirtier or sicker than people who wash their clothes at 5 or 6 specific temperatures. There is no scientific evidence that proves domestic cold water washing to cause the spread of communicable diseases or increases the incidents of flus and colds.
 
Last Choice test

I've reproduced the test results for OMO Ultimate front loader detergent below. This was done earlier this year and shows the difference with identical test loads done in the same machine, but with one as a warm and one as a 'cold' wash.

Warm water IS more effective at removing every stain they test.

Choice states:

'Dirt - Using a spectrophotometer, which measures how much light reflects off the swatches after filtering out any effects of optical brighteners, they measure how much dirt is removed. These readings are more accurate than the human eye – differences of about 6% are noticeable.'

It'd be interesting to see the results for 60c.

Tested in: Front loader

Warm (40c) Cold (20c)
Overall score(%) 81 76
General soil removal (%)87 81
Natural oils (%) 66 63
Rice Starch (%) 81 77
Vegetable oil (%) 88 86
Grass (%) 79 75
Motor oil (%) 66 61
 
"differences of about 6% are noticeable.' "

When you have eyes like spectrophotometers you are probably right. In some instances yes; but mostly not really. 6% out of a 100% range is hair-splitting for the sake of splitting hairs. What is the ultimate point of this conversation than to say that people who do or don't do this or that, aren't or are that or the other.

To me the above results look pretty close and fairly convincing that cold water washing is more than adequate.
 
Olav

Differences of 6% can be seen with the eye, not just with the tool used.

I'm not suggesting that many people are not happy with the results they get from cold water washing or implying they are 'dirty' or otherwise. But, if I can see the difference in performance without need of special tools and based on a single wash, then I would suggest that after repeated wear/wash/wear/wash etc, there will be a noticable difference on how items would look.

In isolation, they would probably appear fine. However, when placed side by side, I'd suggest you would easily pick the one that isn't actually as clean as the other.
 
This sums it up

• In the present research, the effect of the washing machine type has not
been taken into account. As such influence is likely, initiating research on
this aspect is recommended.

• The results of this research for the Spanish situation show that even at low
wash temperatures an appropriate level of cleaning and hygiene can be
achieved. It could prove rewarding to further investigate the Spanish situation

"On clean, dry laundry the Total Plate
Count is considerably lower. Samples taken from clean laundry in a cupboard
show that the average count is about log 2.5 CFU /4.7cm2. Drying and ironing
seem to have a positive effect on the amount of micro-organisms. One of the
most interesting findings is that washing seems to spread micro-organisms
rather than removing them. Sterile samples were very often contaminated with
all kinds of bacteria. But the sterile samples are not the only indication of
cross-contamination and the spreading of micro-organisms. Spreading is also
found among laundry items. For example, Enterobacteriaceae were found
only on the unwashed diaper and dishcloth, but all other items were contaminated
after washing.
Another interesting outcome of this research is the increase in hygienic quality
of the laundry items achieved by adding an extra rinse to the washing
process. This finding emerged when verifying the Spanish results. The Spanish
hygiene level seems to be systematically higher than in the other European
countries."

Indirectly the research does touch on the issue of reduced water use in front loaders and that higher wash temperatures may be necessary to compensate for less effective rinsing. Then again, home laundering is not about sterilizing clothes to hospital standard.
 
The Spanish hygiene level seems to be systematically higher

To me it has to do with the fact that "cold" water in Spain can be like in the south of Italy, when "cold" water in summer is at 35°C coming from the faucet.
Was the temperature of the incoming water sampled in the test?
 
@rapunzel:
On your points:
-type of washer: Yeah, your right on that point. A traditionla toploader will handl a cold wash better than a frontloader. But only because of the extremly high usage of water. Like our German Panasonic NA148VG4 uses only 50 l/76 l (ECO/normal) for a wash with 8kg. A conventional USA toploader uses az leats 130 l of water. So there is just more water for all kind of dirt and other stuff to be solved and washed away.
-drying and ironing: Yes, that has of course effects on the number of bacteria and germs of all kind. But, These things have to be used. In Germany, only 3/4 of all washers have a dryer beside it, and only a small amount of clothing is dried ( because of the even higher energy usage than a hot wash and the fact that most items are just not dryer-proofed).
But you have to mention dj-gabriele's point. If your "cold" water is infact already that warm, you got different effects than in a 10° german winter faucet.
 

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