Dishwashers losing popularity in US Homes???

[phillymatt53]

I'd get their most budget model. I didn't need stupid wifi.

Don't let the Millenial crowd hear you say that!

 

[vacerator]

Why do people want everything WiFi ? It's stupid. Why are all dishwashers in Europe and down under built with complete cabinets?

 

[phillymatt53]

Why do people want everything WiFi ? It's stupid. Why are all dishwashers in Europe and down under built with complete cabinets?

The social disease of WiFi has been spread as a so-called "convenience" among the masses to suppliment the "wireless" trend which first started decades ago when the first "cordless" telephones and remote control tv's were available.
It's basically a Marketing tool that corporations know can bring them more revenue, while conditioning society to become lazy and less active.
Flop your ass down on the sofa and enjoy a bag of potato chips while scanning through the channels.
Lay in bed with your laptop while you browse "convenient" internet shopping on Amazon.
You've now become accustomed to The New World of Doing Things!
Everyone's doing it! - even people on treadmills in the gym can now text their eyeballs off or check out porn sites.

This "conditioning" has been successful enough to gain revenue for those corporations, while making people a lazy crowd of sheep.
But you're not supposed to realize that.

 

[ea56]

“The social disease of WiFi has been spread as a so-called "convenience" among the masses to suppliment the "wireless" trend which first started decades ago when the first "cordless" telephones and remote control tv's were available.”

And Matt just what do you think this website is!? You seem to be on it quite frequently yourself, not that I should talk either. LOL

But the point is just because a technology is “new” doesn’t necessarily make it a plot to poison minds and cripple people by confining them to their beds and couches.

I appreciate the days of yore just as much as anybody else that peruses this website, maybe more because I’m old enough to remember lots of this old memorabilia from the first time around.

Face it Wi-Fi and the internet at here to stay. But that being said I’m in total agreement that having your washers, dryers and DW’s Wi-Fi capable is totally unnecessary but then I’m a Boomer not Gen Z. Time marches on.

Eddie

 

[qsd-dan]

Thankfully, all of my appliances that I treasure are within listening distance while running. No wifi required.

 

[Chetlaham]

And Matt just what do you think this website is!?

The difference is semiconductors and wifi have a practical application in personal computers, servers, and in the most of data delivery. They do not however have any practical application in appliances.

 

[phillymatt53]

The difference is semiconductors and wifi have a practical application in personal computers, servers, and in the most of data delivery. They do not however have any practical application in appliances.

Oh, but Chet, they DO have a practical use in appliances!
For the manufacturers!
A big ole weak spot in design, prone to failure, to boost sales revenue.

 

[Chetlaham]

Oh, but Chet, they DO have a practical use in appliances!
For the manufacturers!
A big ole weak spot in design, prone to failure, to boost sales revenue.

Oh, yes indeed.

1) Advertising bait. Screens, jingles, features, ect make the customer feel like they are buying something better than their old machine.

2) Profound cheapening. Manufacturers can do away with advanced suspensions, material, quality parts, self regulating designs, deep sumps, intelligent engineering, ect ect because the programming will take care of all the shortfalls. If the electronics can spend an hour trying to balance a load and abort it altogether at the slightest centimeter of tub displacement you can do away with the robust suspension that previously handled it without a hiccup. You can make a dishwasher sump that is so shallow with such a cheap tiny motor that the control can afford to spend half an hour burping bubbles out of the sump and revving the motor up and down in real time to prevent dry cavitation.

3) Obsolesce. Electronics have a finite life expectancy. If they can make it past the 1 year warranty but fail after 3 years that is a new machine scored.

 

[phillymatt53]

Oh, yes indeed.

1) Advertising bait. Screens, jingles, features, ect make the customer feel like they are buying something better than their old machine.

2) Profound cheapening. Manufacturers can do away with advanced suspensions, material, quality parts, self regulating designs, deep sumps, intelligent engineering, ect ect because the programming will take care of all the shortfalls. If the electronics can spend an hour trying to balance a load and abort it altogether at the slightest centimeter of tub displacement you can do away with the robust suspension that previously handled it without a hiccup. You can make a dishwasher sump that is so shallow with such a cheap tiny motor that the control can afford to spend half an hour burping bubbles out of the sump and revving the motor up and down in real time to prevent dry cavitation.

3) Obsolesce. Electronics have a finite life expectancy. If they can make it past the 1 year warranty but fail after 3 years that is a new machine scored.

And that system is one that works well for manufacturers.
I've often spoken about society's "conditioning", and that's one thing that manufacturers count on.

 

[Chetlaham]

And that system is one that works well for manufacturers.
I've often spoken about society's "conditioning", and that's one thing that manufacturers count on.

Silence is consent. But that is what people have been conditioned to do. Be quiet and let others do the thinking for you. Its working. It has never been an easier time to be a trillionaire but has never been harder to be 1/10 of a millionaire.

 

[daveamkrayoguy]

The thing all these remotes via cell phones cannot do is load, unload, put in or take out or put away...

There has got to be a mistaken faith in this Wi-Fi driven ennui, that people come home to empty appliances that they forgot to fill, or full ones that repeated their function because they weren't emptied, then filled again for their next task...

So far, only my dryer has, but not anything like a dishwasher, laundry washer, microwave or conventional oven...

I'll forgive my car for having, though my phone operation many times loses to me car's remote being tons more quicker...

 

[me]

I would actually quite like to have wifi on some of my appliances, although none of mine do, because they are all far too old, but I wouldn't be willing to pay much extra for it, and probably no more than an extra fiver.

One reason is I normally put the dishwasher, washing machine and dryer on overnight, during cheap rate, so having a built in timer that gets the correct time from a timeserver would be quite handy. I actually have the dishwasher plugged into an old timer plug, which I gutted and replaced the electronics with a cheap wifi control module which only cost about £1.50 which apart from not gaining or losing time, also allows me to turn it on via my phone if I need to run the dishwasher during the day, which is handy because the socket is in an awkward position. That said a delay button, like I have on my washing machine would work well enough, but with the added hassle of having to set it every time I use it.

I'd particularly like to have wifi on a fridge and freezer, so they could warn me if they develop a fault and get too warm, before the food in them melts and goes off.

Given the choice I'd rather have wifi on an appliance like a washing machine and real buttons on the control panel instead of touch screen controls.

Also, I would think having wifi on appliances that could be interfaced with voice control, like alexia, would potentially be quite useful for some people with disabilities.

As I've mentioned before, I think a great use of wifi, would be to compel manufacturers to use it to monitor the reliability of their own appliances, by requiring wifi enabled appliances to report when they breakdown to an independently run internet server, which would publish stats by the make, model and appliance age. That would hopefully would lead to improvements in reliability, by encouraging customers to choose from the more reliable brands.

 

[lavamat_jon]

“Stupid” wifi on my appliances ping me notifications when they are done, particularly useful with the dryer as that is outside the main house.

“Stupid” wifi allows me to easily delay the start of the washer or dishwasher to start at a specific time, which is especially useful to coincide with free electricity sessions we get from our provider when there is excessive renewable energy on the grid.

“Stupid” wifi updates the machines as and when to improve performance. It also allows you to select additional cycles and options should you want, which aren’t available on the control panel.

“Stupid” wifi tells me the exact consumption that my appliances have used.

It isn’t a necessity, and of course doesn’t load, unload or fold the laundry for you. But I find the benefits very useful, far from stupid.

FWIW, I’m posting this using my phone which is connected to my “stupid” wifi.

Jon, (a stupid, conditioned millennial).

 

[lavamat_jon]

Why do people want everything WiFi ? It's stupid. Why are all dishwashers in Europe and down under built with complete cabinets?

A lot of our dishwashers are freestanding and slotted into a gap underneath the kitchen counter, as you would a fridge or washing machine here. Integrated dishwashers are common too, though.

I’d probably say the ratio of freestanding to integrated dishwashers is 50:50.

 

[donprohel]

“Stupid” wifi on my appliances ping me notifications when they are done, particularly useful with the dryer as that is outside the main house.

Admittedly, this can be useful, but the last thing that I want is to wait to be told that the laundry is dry, but here to each his own, as they say

“Stupid” wifi allows me to easily delay the start of the washer or dishwasher to start at a specific time, which is especially useful to coincide with free electricity sessions we get from our provider when there is excessive renewable energy on the grid.

Which you could also do with a simple timer on the machine, and forces you to spend your time waiting to be told that the free electricity time has started: thank you, but no, thank you, at least not for me: me I want to decide when it is the right time to do the laundry.
But again, to each his own.

“Stupid” wifi updates the machines as and when to improve performance. It also allows you to select additional cycles and options should you want, which aren’t available on the control panel.

So how does it happen that none of the many bugs in the software of my expensive German washing machine has been fixed in two years despite the manufacturer having been informed?

And why those additional programmes and options are not accessible from the machine? Could it be that someone is trying to "encourage" you to download and install a data-sucking app on your phone?
But be aware that here we are talking of WiFi and apps as if they were the same, and they aren't

“Stupid” wifi tells me the exact consumption that my appliances have used.

And what do you do with those consumption data? And what is the difference between reading them from the app or directly from the machine?
And by the way, those data are nor "exact" at all: they are absolutely unreliable because the machine does not have any accurate way to make the measurements.
Personally, I do not need any WiFi or app to know that the hotter the cycle, the higher the consumption, and in any case the money difference between cycles is largely irrelevant to my utilities expenses.

It isn’t a necessity, and of course doesn’t load, unload or fold the laundry for you. But I find the benefits very useful, far from stupid.

"Necessity" is a very subjective matter, and surely I will not be the one questioning yours.

The point that I am trying to make is not the usefulness of certain features, but the fact that manufacturers make them dependent on WiFi and apps, and then they do anything they can to make them look necessary so that the user connects the machine to the WiFi e installs apps allowing the manufacturer to suck data and profile the user, which I personally do not want.

And in case you wonder, my washing machine is connected to the WiFi as a "guest", which limits its ability to mind my own business and does not allow it to connect to the app, and when I first saw the app I commented "My new washing machine comes with an app: now I can see my dirty pants on my mobile. I am so excited!"

Jon, (a stupid, conditioned millennial).

Nice to meet you, Jon.
I am Don, an even more stupid boomer that tries hard not to be conditioned and, above all, not to be profiled


P.S. Has anybody heard the saying "if it's free, the product is you"?

 

[lavamat_jon]

Don,

That’s completely fine if you don’t feel you benefit from it, my point from my tongue in cheek post (sorry if it didn’t come out that way) was that it’s useful to me and many others who use it. And nobody is forcing a gun to anybody’s head to use wifi on appliances, you’re free to use it at will. I can completely understand why one wouldn’t want to, but I wouldn’t brand them as “stupid” or “conditioned”.

I’m not forced to use my electricity only when the energy supplier dictates. But if I can take advantage of free electricity - and set the washing machine and dishwasher to start exactly at that time rather than a rough estimation on the time and working out the delay in your head, then why not. If anything it’s “stupid” not to.

It’s not a massive tin foil hat conspiracy like some others like to make things out to be.

Jon

 

[phillymatt53]

Nice to meet you, Jon.
I am Don, an even more stupid boomer that tries hard not to be conditioned and, above all, not to be profiled

Bravo for that long and informative posting!

It takes a strong-minded person with a functioning brain to be able make it through life without having their freedoms and individuality taken away from them.

 

[donprohel]

[...] nobody is forcing a gun to anybody’s head to use wifi on appliances, you’re free to use it at will. I can completely understand why one wouldn’t want to, but I wouldn’t brand them as “stupid” or “conditioned”

Just as an example, you have never asked why you need an app to use additional programmes that could be directly on the machine, and probably are.
Instead you have passively accepted that the app is needed to use those programmes as they told you, and maybe you haven't even thought that of the countless programmes of washing machines, only a few are actually used, so you have also passively believed that those additional programmes are of any usefulness

Call it the way you want, but this for me is "conditioning": making people accept things without questioning them, without any critical thinking.

It’s not a massive tin foil hat conspiracy like some others like to make things out to be.

I am the first to reject conspiracy theories, but when they are supported by profits and shares value...

 

[phillymatt53]

Just as an example, you have never asked why you need an app to use additional programmes that could be directly on the machine, and probably are.
Instead you have passively accepted that the app is needed to use those programmes as they told you, and maybe you haven't even thought that of the countless programmes of washing machines, only a few are actually used, so you have also passively believed that those additional programmes are of any usefulness

Call it the way you want, but this for me is "conditioning": making people accept things without questioning them, without any critical thinking.



I am the first to reject conspiracy theories, but when they are supported by profits and shares value...

And yet another bravo to this posting!

In these current times, it's utterly annoying to listen to tv and radio advertizing which promotes things that society really doesn't need, and is made to sound so attractive.... so many times I hear the phrase "Download The App".
Gambling, games, products, devices, convenience features, among hundreds of other things - all glorified and touted to help you get through life in a "better way".
But is it really better?
It all breaks down to being "conditioned", turning you into a puppet, a forever lost soul zombie, eternally made into being dependent on "apps".

It's just not normal to be so addicted to a device or service.

 

[lavamat_jon]

My question is, if I (and others) find something useful, then why does it upset others so much who don’t find it useful?

I don’t think the app is a necessity (which I mentioned), but I find the features useful. Of course you can just use the machine on the panel and disable the wifi, nobody is saying you can’t use the machine like that. But if I want to use the extra programmes or functionality then why is it such a problem?

If one doesn’t like a feature (wifi for example on this case) for whatever reason - whether it’s practically, preferentially or due to plain tin hat theory nonsense - then simply don’t use it, there’s no need to berate others as some others like to do so particularly on here. That really does go against the definition of a free thinking, unconditioned society.

Jon

 

[donprohel]

My question is, if I (and others) find something useful, then why does it upset others so much who don’t find it useful?

Jon, the matter is not the usefulness, which is largely subjective, but it is the manipulation and profiling

I haven't missed that you have disregarded my point, so I repeat it here: have you ever wondered why do you need an app to use additional programmes? And now, do you wonder why you haven't ever wondered?

I have no objection of sort if someone likes to tell a device to turn off the light, but if that device is a tool to profile and condition people, then I have plenty of objections, because what is at stake is not their freedom (of which, to be honest, I couldn't care less) but also mine, and I greatly care of my freedom.

Does anybody here remember Cambridge Analytica?

It's just not normal to be so addicted to a device or service.

Sorry, phillymatt53 / Matt, but here I have to disagree.

It is not normal for old farts like us, who grew up in times when critical thinking was valued in the society to the point that it was taught in schools (which typically were public schools, and where quite good because the money spent in education was not considered wasted).

But for younger people who have always seen that and only that, it is normal, as sad and unfortunate it can be

 

[phillymatt53]

Jon, the matter is not the usefulness, which is largely subjective, but it is the manipulation and profiling

I have no objection of sort if someone likes to tell a device to turn off the light, but if that device is a tool to profile and condition people, then I have plenty of objections, because what is at stake is not their freedom (of which, to be honest, I couldn't care less) but also mine, and I greatly care of my freedom.

Sorry, phillymatt53 / Matt, but here I have to disagree.

It is not normal for old farts like us, who grew up in times when critical thinking was valued in the society to the point that it was taught in schools (which typically were public schools, and where quite good because the money spent in education was not considered wasted).
But for younger people who have always seen that and only that, it is normal, as sad and unfortunate it can be

I understand you're concerns, and where young people have been born-into this new age of "convenience products".
You mention about "manipulating", and that's one of the tools that corporations and advertizing depend on to sell their products, services, and even Snake Oil junk.
The subliminal messages often used in promoting products carry a message of either Fear, or a negative suggestion of being inconvenient, unless you buy into the products or services. - clear, yet subtle manipulation.
Additionally, these same products/services are glorified in hopes that the customer/consumer will believe that it will make them happier, or save them money - Like those Lottery tickets, Gambling Apps, etc.
Again, it's all manipulation, designed to prey on any weaknesses or addictions of society - and of course benefit corperate's lust for greed and power.

Focusing on the younger generation is easier to convince them to hop on the "merry-go-round", and by that, as human nature and curiosity is, it then spreads to the older crowd - and as you know, fads, trends, are often widespread corporate successes.