Whirlpool WTW4816FW3: Bad control board and Lowes warranty issues

All of the new new VMWs seem to get control board issues, actually a very common problem with these and you’re not alone. A new board is expensive but Whirlpool has issued a recall on the boards for washers that are out of warranty so they can be bought for free.

Most of them are 2023 models but a lot of the 2024 models with the non-recalled boards also have this issue.

I own the WTW4900 washer, glad it was bought before this issue became common. The board is still good on that washer. Mine is a 2014.

I think it was in late 2022 or early 2023 when the boards started to really have this problem. Not sure if the 2025 models have the issue pitched or not.

This issue has occurred on some older VMWs, tho, but not as common.

Example of an older VMW (made in mid 2013 most likely due to the America sticker on it) with this control board issue

When a VMW drains constantly, regardless of its age, it’s usually the control board. It’s rarely due to a pump issue but that can also be the cause in some cases, where the pump doesn't drain right and the board thinks it’s going to flood. Usually this is accompanied by an F3E1 code.

This is actually a safety mechanism. The constant draining occurs when the machine thinks the drum is overfilled and is going to overflow. For example, when it fills above the stainless drum, and into the balance ring, the washer will drain it out to prevent if from flooding your house. This can also happen if you cancel it while it’s filled up, it can drain for a while if you do that.

Washers like Whirlpool direct drives and GE Model-Ts, didn’t have this mechanism, meaning if there was an issue with the pressure system, the machine would just flood your house.

Unfortunately, if your VMW is older than 2023 and has this issue, the only solution is to pay 200+ dollars for a new control board.

Some VMAX units also were affected (the older ones at least), but not as common as the new VMWs.

the best way to know if the model itself is hit by a recall is to check on the website with your model number

All models made in 2023 and a few out of warranty 2024 models are affected. I bet the WTW4616FW, Roper RTW4516FW, several Crosley and Kenmore models, the new Admiral models, also affected by this it just doesn’t show because it’s not commonly bought new anymore and most stores don’t sell those models.

Whirlpool only seemed to do this recall for the more popular ones.

Essentially any new VMW with the six lights under the timer is affected, even if it’s not recalled.

Service Pointer from Whirlpool

whirlpool862 said:

All models made in 2023 and a few out of warranty 2024 models are affected. I bet the WTW4616FW, Roper RTW4516FW, several Crosley and Kenmore models, the new Admiral models, also affected by this it just doesn’t show because it’s not commonly bought new anymore and most stores don’t sell those models.

Whirlpool only seemed to do this recall for the more popular ones.

Essentially any new VMW with the six lights under the timer is affected, even if it’s not recalled.

Service Pointer from Whirlpool

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@whirlpool862 your link is not working

Need to add the colon to the URL: https://www.ifixit.com/Document/x3h1Ydc4A1mQDVZM/service-pointer-w11766193-revb.pdf?referrer=wiki:16667

I fixed it

I may get mixed opinions about this, but in my opinion major appliances don't need complex PC control boards in them.
Just remember when appliances used actual switches and mechanical timers, and how long those machines lasted.
Simplicity at its finest!

phillymatt53 said:

I may get mixed opinions about this, but in my opinion major appliances don't need complex PC control boards in them.
Just remember when appliances used actual switches and mechanical timers, and how long those machines lasted.
Simplicity at its finest!

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The issue is cost. Those usually cost a lot of money that consumers don't want to pay. I've talked to a few engineers at the major companies, and they said that they'd love to use them but C-level executives tell them that price trumps reliability so they have to keep the $500 washer, rather than build a vastly superior basic $800 washer.

mrstickball said:

The issue is cost. Those usually cost a lot of money that consumers don't want to pay. I've talked to a few engineers at the major companies, and they said that they'd love to use them but C-level executives tell them that price trumps reliability so they have to keep the $500 washer, rather than build a vastly superior basic $800 washer.

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Do PC boards cost less than mechanical timers though? Generally the places you've been most likely to see mechanical controls and timers in recent years are on bottom of the line appliances, which would seem to contradict that.

And it's worth noting, even Speed Queen, which specialize in high quality, longer lasting washers that cost well over $800 has mostly settled on electronic boards over mechanical components. No matter what quality level appliance you're building, the more complex operation sequences to hit the needed efficiency levels these days are just harder to accomplish with mechanical components.

hvtech42 said:

Do PC boards cost less than mechanical timers though? Generally the places you've been most likely to see mechanical controls and timers in recent years are on bottom of the line appliances, which would seem to contradict that.

And it's worth noting, even Speed Queen, which specialize in high quality, longer lasting washers that cost well over $800 has mostly settled electronic boards over mechanical components. No matter what quality level appliance you're building, the more complex operation sequences to hit the needed efficiency levels these days are just harder to accomplish with mechanical components.

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Yes, significantly less if done in batch. The issue is that the PCB is going to replace a lot of features in one go when you're flowing 10,000 - 100,000 boards at once. If you look at mechanical timer costs from 3rd party companies that are only charging a price directly above margin, mechanical timers (and the related sub-components) can get costly.

FWIW, I got a look at Midea factory pricing a few years back. Not under NDA to where I am doing anything illegal, but it was true, real wholesale pricing before tariffs. A washer PCB was like.... $30, if that, and it was for a more complex model. By comparison, I haven't found a legitimate mechanical timer made available by any 3rd party company that has access to Robert Shaw, Invensys and the other OEMs for anything close to that - much less the other controls like Push-to-Start, Automatic/Manual Temp selectors, Pressure Switches, and other cycle controls. You're probably looking at $20-30 more at wholesale for a completely mechanical system.

Of course thats the problem right there. $30-40 in mechnical components would solve the issue. But then when you add dealer and distributor margins, you wind up with those bigger and higher prices.


But even then, you could just use better components on the PCBs too. One brand relay may have a duty cycle of 20,000 contacts, whereas another one has 100,000. Its why the old '90s Kenmore range controls easily lasted 20-25 years and the new ones last 10 or less. A tech on a group I'm in bought all the PCB relays that the various companies use, and determined that almost all the relays used today only last 15,000 - 25,000 cycles but those from the 90s used other brands that lasted 60,000+ easily. Absolutely intentional choices.

Even if a relay only lasts 15 to 25,000 cycles that’s thousands of hours of baking far more than almost any range will ever be used.

And I highly doubt that they’re using components today that have 1/4 of the life of one’s 10 years ago or more.

John L

Those relays, particularly if they're the lower-life ones, are nonsense to use in anything.
Relays, if not "beefy" enough, can't stand the arcing of their contacts very long, and the pitting, burning, and sometimes welding closed causes issues.
I've seen this happen in relatively new things like amplifiers. receivers, etc.

On the contrary, my "vintage" appliances - washer, dryer, dishwasher, all having mechanicals timers, and are still performing their duties as designed, decades later.

My take on this new design stuff - PC board controls, microprocessor chips, relays, boils down to corporate greed, idiotic cost-cutting, and irritating the end consumer with repairs and additional costs.
Oh, and those cheap plastic digital controls that are prone to damage from rough handling.

If it costs a bit more to use sturdy timers and real mechanical switches, I'm pretty sure that the customer will appreciate not having to pay more to get their stuff repaired or replaced.

Make the appliance sturdy, long lasting, and reliable for god sakes!
Make the consumer happy about what they bought, and it will give the manufacturer a higher reputation.
Not like the crap brands like Samsung among others have gotten bad reps.

i wonder how whirlpool maytag washers and dryers including amana would look like if they where made by speed queen if speed queen bough whirlpool like whirlpool bough maytag?

I don’t think you see many mechanical timers even on low end units anymore.
The high volume of timer production has gone way down, making them more expensive. I think there’s only a few dryers out there that might use a timer?
Everything has moved to PCBs because their volumes and part costs have come way down. They’re more flexible than a timer to do fancier stuff the designers want the washers to do.
You can have PCB printers at your desk now for quick turn prototyping and testing. The Ele group I worked with, was doing that 10yrs ago. Pick n place is portable now.
You can’t do that with a mechanical timer.
There’s just less companies supplying them now, so their cost goes up.
And we all know today, the lowest BOM cost is king.
Not only dictated by OEM managers, but the retail space too.

Even premium quality relays can stick sometimes. I saw a documentary about some of our 1950s aircraft, and a former pilot was talking about one, which of course had all electromechanical flight systems, I think it may have been the Handley Page Victor (V-bomber), and was saying that he was always happy when he had a stocky flight engineer on board, who knew just where on the flight deck to jump to fix a fault!

You can also get issues with counterfeit parts getting into the supply chain, although maybe the likes of whirlpool could source them direct. Likely the thickness of the silver alloy plating they put on the contacts has got thinner over the years too.

I had a problem with a stuck reversing relay on my current machine when it was about 14 years old, presumably the contacts shouldn't arc that much because I'd expect that the speed control triac would cut the power before the relays are switched.

johnb300m said:

I don’t think you see many mechanical timers even on low end units anymore.
The high volume of timer production has gone way down, making them more expensive. I think there’s only a few dryers out there that might use a timer?
Everything has moved to PCBs because their volumes and part costs have come way down. They’re more flexible than a timer to do fancier stuff the designers want the washers to do.
You can have PCB printers at your desk now for quick turn prototyping and testing. The Ele group I worked with, was doing that 10yrs ago. Pick n place is portable now.
You can’t do that with a mechanical timer.
There’s just less companies supplying them now, so their cost goes up.
And we all know today, the lowest BOM cost is king.
Not only dictated by OEM managers, but the retail space too.

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It's true, they're gradually going away. Yeah cheap dryers still have mechanical timers. Cheap ranges still have mechanical thermostats rather than boards. Cheap dishwashers like entry level GE were still using mechanical timers until pretty recently.

I definitely agree the industry is definitely moving away from them, and that process is almost complete. But I'm just having trouble believing it's due to cost rather than other factors. Over time, the change was made lower and lower in the model lineups, and the rate varied by appliance type. But at basically every point in time, electronics have been more likely to be found on higher end units and mechanical timers on lower ones.

me said:

You can also get issues with counterfeit parts getting into the supply chain, although maybe the likes of whirlpool could source them direct.

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I doubt Whirlpool is sourcing the relays directly, more likely it's whoever they choose to manufacture their boards.

I understand some manufacturers like Miele make their own boards, this can be a good way to retain full control over the quality of the appliance, but most manufacturers outsource this work.

I checked a few relays off of recent and older range control boards I had lying around from a variety of manufacturers, and according to the data sheets they're all rated to last for 100,000 cycles or more - on both the new and old boards. The relay manufacturers included Omron, Potter & Brumfield, Sanyou, and Song Chuan. Of course that doesn't rule out there could be quality issues causing some to last less than rated. But there is no evidence I can see that appliance/PCB manufacturers are intentionally selecting shorter life relays to use.

IDK how Whirlpool’s value stream works, but I was at a job where we contracted with the same manufacturer in Mexico that made Electrolux’s dishwasher and oven PCBs.
It sounds like Elux did main architectural design and the actual board layout and design was done at a sister branch of the manufacturer in Illinois.
It’s not clear who specified what parts. It could be a mix of the two companies. I’m sure they collaborated back and forth like the factory did with us.
My Ele group did specify the whole BOM and we organized sourcing with the contract manufacturer. They took it from there.
The factory was impressive. They had great quality control and had low rate of failure. The quality manager personally drove us fromTX to the plant in MX every day.
It gave me more confidence in “some” of Elux’s stuff.
Our boards were very well made too.

Ok, so manufacturing COST seems to be an ongoing subject here.
Put in cheaper PC boards, electronics, that apparently don't last, and fail.
COSTing the consumer a domestic hassle and making them pay to rectify the problem.
That's a smart bit of marketing and design for a company to benefit from.
Screw the consumer and smile.
Sad state of affairs these days.