2004 Neptune Washer Issues

I don't know if they're related, but my stacking Neptune washer still has a recent problem occurring sometimes, and a new one occurring seemingly all the time.

First, the previously reported issue of the washer stopping and eventually shutting off when going into the first rinse. John L. had suggested the cause was insufficient water pressure, and I made sure not to run the A712 at the same time. That seemed to help, but now the same thing is happening even when no water is being used anywhere else in the house. I'm going to have to check the inlet screens now. It seems to happen on full, heavy loads, but tonight I washed a couple of beach towels and a few smaller hand towels and everything shut down at the usual point in the cycle. Also, when I push the button to restart the machine from where it stopped, the timer makes a humming sound that goes away once it advances.

Second, fabric softener isn't always being flushed out of the reservoir, and yet at times after a wash load (without FS) has been completed, the FS reservoir is full of clear water. I don't know what to make of this.

Even if I find clogged screens, I don't think that's going to resolve the FS problem.

I welcome any diagnostic advice and hope this could be something like a solenoid as opposed to a control board problem.

Hi Ralph, definitely check the inlet screens, clean them gently without removing them, when they get removed, they often get bent a little bit and then they won’t seal properly and allow particles to get past them when you reinstall them.

But much more likely you have a bad inlet valve, I haven’t seen a clogged in that screen in a washer dishwasher in 20 years.

It’s funny I was thinking of you the other week we have a customer that built a really nice custom home in 2004 they put a Maytag Neptune in like this and the bearings have gone bad in the washer and we couldn’t find a machine that would fit in the spot except for the Speed Queen and I couldn’t get it quickly enough so I ended up exchanging the whole lower washer half of the Neptune and I got it working There aren’t many of these left in our region. A lot were sold. I still see them showing up on the recycle pile fairly often so I guess there’s still some out there working.

This customer was trying to sell this house for around 2 million but not getting any takers because of the mess that you know who is creating in this city so he took it off the market and decided to rent the house until the midterms. Hopefully things will start to turn around then, let’s hope

John L

Thanks John. My neighborhood was planned out in 1915, and all of the water supply lines were finally replaced about a year ago. Water is fairly hard here -- mostly ground water -- and galvanized piping is common on the property owners' side of the meter. My house got copper installed, I suspect maybe 30 or so years ago, but the water company sent all of us notices about the work in the streets likely causing some granular material to impact aerators, etc. The only place I've noticed a flow problem is in the basement laundry area on both washers and the laundry sink faucet. The hot side flow is way worse than the cold. This has me baffled, as the sink faucet hooks up directly to the copper piping and no screens are involved that I'm aware of.

I'll check the screens on inlets valves and hoses on both machines, but am thinking that ultimately a plumber may be required. All of the laundry-related piping in the basement was added when we moved in, as the service area on the main floor became smaller when a master bathroom was added some time in the past, and there wasn't enough room for a standard size laundry pair off the kitchen anymore (the Neptune stack protruded into a doorway).

Any thoughts on the fabric softener situation? I almost never use it, but my friend who has been staying with me is in love with the stuff. I make sure to remove and clean the dispenser components when I see that softener has been used, but now that the softener isn't being dispensed I don't know what to make of it.

Thanks again for sharing your wealth of knowledge. I'd be willing to pay to have this machine fixed if possible, as it's no nonsense, always goes right into spin, and has simple controls.

Softener flushes by water flow into the dispenser. The feed path to the dispenser could be clogged or impaired flow via the inlet valve or supply pressure.

Thanks Glen, but the odd thing is that at times when softener isn't used, after a load of wash is finished the FS reservoir is full to the top with clear water. Until recently, the FS reservoir was always empty when the end of cycle signal sounded -- as it should be, no? There seems to be no rhyme or reason to this flush/no-flush behavior or why the reservoir doesn't drain.

Typical dispensing method is the cup overflows via the incoming water to flush out the softener. The remaining water should siphon out when the incoming flow stops. The siphon tube may be clogged. Is the cup removable for cleaning? My AquaSmarts occasionally fail to siphon-empty the softener and/or bleach cups, seems to be caused by an air bubble at the siphon tube.

As to fabric softeners, I use Downy, and they've made it so thick and gooey that it's hard to pour and dissolve .
It's left sticky residue in my Maytag's softener cup on the agitator.
and if not cleaned, it build up and solidifies and has to be scrubbed out.
I keep a toothbrush handy to loosen it and flush it out.
So now, I dilute the softener and stir it with some hot or warm water before adding it to the cup.
It still needs cleaning though.
The hoses can get clogged up in rp2813's machine.

I've taken the dispenser completely apart for cleaning whenever FS residue has been present. I know FS residue can accumulate elsewhere in the washer so when I do use softener, I always dilute it and give it a stir in the dispenser cup. I use hot washes often enough to inhibit residue accumulating around the spider, I hope.

Unlike Maytag's simple top loader dispenser design which uses centrifugal force, the Neptune routes part of the final rinse fill water into the dispenser cup, which overflows and forces the mixture up and into an integrated tube inside the cup and then presumably down another hidden tube and into the drum.

My machine seems at times not to be doing either of these things. As stated further up, softener either never gets flushed up and into the overflow tube, or at times when softener isn't used, water does get routed to the dispenser as per normal, but the reservoir remains full of clear water after the load of wash is finished. So two things seem to be happening. Fill water doesn't always get routed into the reservoir, or if it does, the reservoir sometimes remains full, as if there's a clog somewhere past the reservoir's overflow route.

Could this be a timer issue? Maybe it's time to see if there's an old YouTube video that addresses this schizoid behavior that doesn't make any sense.

phillymatt53 said:

As to fabric softeners, I use Downy, and they've made it so thick and gooey that it's hard to pour and dissolve .
It's left sticky residue in my Maytag's softener cup on the agitator.
and if not cleaned, it build up and solidifies and has to be scrubbed out.
I keep a toothbrush handy to loosen it and flush it out.
So now, I dilute the softener and stir it with some hot or warm water before adding it to the cup.
It still needs cleaning though.
The hoses can get clogged up in rp2813's machine.

Click to expand...

You are suppose to add warm water first to the dispenser than add a little softener. I did not know until I read the bottle a few years ago.

All softeners are viscous due to the lubricants in them. Downy has always been strong on that point. Some are less so. I used Snuggle Exhilarations Lavender & Vanilla Orchid for years, which is reasonably thin but local stores no longer carry it. I recently found that HEB Bravo Lavender is similarly thin.

Front load Neptune, washer problems

You do not have to dilute fabric softener for this type of machine. There’s a separate inlet valve that flushes water through when it’s filling for the final rinse.

The machine seems to be experiencing some sort of filling problem, try disconnecting the hoses from the inlet valve , divert that one of the houses at a time into a 5 gallon bucket and turn it on full force the bucket should fill in less than two minutes if so, you do not have a plumbing problem. You have an inlet valve problem, to replace the inlet valve on this machine you need to remove the dryer from the top of the washer.

Well John, that sucks, but thanks for the advice. I have a lot of laundry to do after being out of town for a week, so if this problem persists I'll tackle the water pressure issue all the way back to the supply valves since the 712 only gets a trickle of hot water and less than a full flow of cold. I've been procrastinating on this issue because the Neptune hadn't been misbehaving until now. As long as a Neptune replacement inlet valve is readily available, I'm feeling confident that between the supply valves, hoses, screens and inlet valves -- maybe for both machines, I can resolve these issues.

UPDATE:

I've been paying more attention to the Neptune's behavior and last night decided to select warm rinses to increase the flow of water. Lo and behold, when the cycle ended, the leftover fabric softener had been flushed away and the reservoir was empty. This confirms (IMO) the advice from John and others that this problem is an inlet valve or screen clog issue.

BUT, I noticed something that has been consistent with regard to the machine shutting down. It always happens just before it advances into the first rinse. Last night this happened again. I opened the door to find the contents sitting in murky wash water as usual, closed the door, pushed the start button and it picked up where it left off without my having to touch the timer knob. Within a minute or two it advanced to the first rinse and operated normally through to the end of the cycle. This has me wondering if the mechanical timer has developed a dead spot or similar issue. It seems I'm now having to go down and restart the machine from this same spot on a regular basis. I don't think this is related to the volume of water flow since it's happening before the rinse phase even starts. Is this worth pursuing or is it time to bid this pair a sad good-bye?

Well Ralph you really like this machine because of the electro mechanical controls that you simply can’t get in a new machine anymore, so I say try to find a new timer and repair it. But I’m certainly not an expert. I’m sure that John will be able to tell you whether or not it’s a realist endeavor to try and repair this 21 year old machine. I wish you the best of luck in being able to save your Neptune.

Eddie

Thanks Eddie. You are so right! I dread the thought of not only a time consuming touchpad that doesn't allow for easy intervention, but also a so-called "smart" machine that is anything but. I hope I can get a few more years out of my Neptune and that, just like screens in cars, consumers begin to reject complexity in favor of simplicity where home appliances are concerned.

rp2813 said:

Thanks Eddie. You are so right! I dread the thought of not only a time consuming touchpad that doesn't allow for easy intervention, but also a so-called "smart" machine that is anything but. I hope I can get a few more years out of my Neptune and that, just like screens in cars, consumers begin to reject complexity in favor of simplicity where home appliances are concerned.

Click to expand...

YEAH!
We don't need dash screens in cars.... creating distractions while driving.
Just like TV sets, and now smart phones, those glowing screens have made milllions of people addicted to them.

rp2813 said:

I don't know if they're related, but my stacking Neptune washer still has a recent problem occurring sometimes, and a new one occurring seemingly all the time.

First, the previously reported issue of the washer stopping and eventually shutting off when going into the first rinse. John L. had suggested the cause was insufficient water pressure, and I made sure not to run the A712 at the same time. That seemed to help, but now the same thing is happening even when no water is being used anywhere else in the house. I'm going to have to check the inlet screens now. It seems to happen on full, heavy loads, but tonight I washed a couple of beach towels and a few smaller hand towels and everything shut down at the usual point in the cycle. Also, when I push the button to restart the machine from where it stopped, the timer makes a humming sound that goes away once it advances.

Second, fabric softener isn't always being flushed out of the reservoir, and yet at times after a wash load (without FS) has been completed, the FS reservoir is full of clear water. I don't know what to make of this.

Even if I find clogged screens, I don't think that's going to resolve the FS problem.

I welcome any diagnostic advice and hope this could be something like a solenoid as opposed to a control board problem.

Click to expand...

The siphon in the soap dish is clogged. Remove it clean with hot water and a toothbrush and it’ll be as good as new

More Bad News?

I stood by the machine as it drained wash water and went into a brief spin before advancing into the fill period for the first rinse. The timer clicked over and then went silent when the fill should have begun, yet the drum remained tumbling without any water. This is where the machine eventually realizes there's no/not enough water in the drum and shuts down. I didn't wait for that to happen this time and instead advanced the timer to see if it would fill for the second rinse. It did not, behaving the same as with the first rinse.

Then it occurred to me that the permanent press cycle could function normally, so I shut the machine down, waited for the door to unlock just to be sure, then moved the timer around to the drain/spin for the PP wash cycle and waited for it to advance to the fill for the first rinse. Same problem. I walked away and allowed the machine to shut itself down and unlock the door like it does on the regular wash cycle. Returning a few minutes later, I opened the door to find rinse water had entered the tub somehow. I pushed the start button and the machine resumed its cycle as if nothing was wrong, also the same as with the regular cycle. I'm stumped, but the machine is no longer reliable as it stands now.

I'm confident that the same issue would present itself on the delicate selection as well. Meanwhile I'm hoping that the machine completes its current load -- a king size comforter -- so I can hang it out to dry before I lose sunshine where the clothes line is.

If there's an explanation for this selective filling behavior, I'd love to hear it. I don't think the flow of water is the main source of the trouble, considering initial fills complete as they should, but I do intend to address that once the source of the shut-down issue, which I suspect is unrelated, can be identified.

A new/refurbished board and/or timer would still be cheaper than a new pair of machines if that's what may be required.

I'm very interested in hearing any thoughts after providing this additional information.

Ralph,
I’m sorry that your Neptune isn’t working properly. I hope that John will see your last post soon and offer you some viable options for your being able to get it up and running properly. I know you want to keep it and i would too if I were you.

Good Luck1
Eddie

ea56 said:

Well Ralph you really like this machine because of the electro mechanical controls that you simply can’t get in a new machine anymore, so I say try to find a new timer and repair it.

Click to expand...

phillymatt53 said:

YEAH!
We don't need dash screens in cars.... creating distractions while driving.
Just like TV sets, and now smart phones, those glowing screens have made milllions of people addicted to them.

Click to expand...

Neptunes with mechanical timers (MAH3000, MAH4000, and presumably the stacked set with such) have a computer board that directs the timer when to advance, presumably each increment, according to the selected cycle options. There are various operational sensors that also have input.

Thanks Glenn. The water flow is a definite problem that has become worse today. Also, even after last night's successful flush-out of the fabric softener, today the reservoir was full of clear water after the one and only load of wash I was able to process through the Neptune.

I'm wondering now if water flow is the source of the assortment of strange behaviors, even though that seems counter-intuitive. Correcting that is the cheapest of all fixes, and it's clearly needed, so I'm going to attack from that angle first and see what happens. As you stated, there are sensors involved that may be responding to low water flow.

Everything else about this machine's performance and results is top notch and works flawlessly, presumably like when it was first purchased. The last place it belongs is the crusher.

SIMPLE FIX!

As John suggested, checking the hoses (no flow issues with any of them) and screens was all that was necessary. The 712's inlet hot side was completely clogged with an impacted sandy deposit. The cold side didn't look as bad, but flow was still affected. I replaced the inlet valve when I bought the 712 ten or so years ago, and the screens are easily removable with a pair of pliers for cleaning. I ran a check and the water flowed into the tub like Niagra Falls. I worked on the 712 first so I'd have a functioning machine in case the Neptune's issues were more complicated.

Flow out of the Neptune's hoses was fine. Hot wasn't quite as forceful as cold, but that seems to be a common situation. I may check inlet and outlet flow on the tankless heater, but today I just wanted to get to the bottom of the Neptune's odd behavior. The inlet valve screens weren't anywhere near as bad as on the 712, but I did remove a decent amount of sandy crust from them. Flow definitely had improved with both hot and cold when I ran a check with the door open. I'm wondering if the Neptune may have some sort of governing mechanism that doesn't allow the cold side to to provide a stronger flow than the hot. Flow was almost identical for hot and cold on the Neptune, whereas the 712's cold side puts out noticeably more volume than the hot.

I did turn down the cold supply line valve a bit so the 712 will provide a reasonably warm mixture, and will keep an eye out for any fill issues with either machine.

I ran a full load of medium weight colors in the Neptune and it worked as it should, proceeding into the first rinse without a hitch, and finishing the next two and final spin with no issues. After the load was done, I opened the door to find the FS dispenser empty. Back to normal in all respects on both machines.

Thanks John, for your expert advice. I decided that I shouldn't try to understand how the circuitry of the Neptune works and make a bigger deal out of the situation than was required. I chose the easiest possible remedy and kept Glenn's statements about the operational sensors in mind. I hope this machine continues for a lot more years to provide the quick and competent laundering that I've come to appreciate so much.

Thanks again to all who contributed!

Ralph

Yey Ralph! I’m happy that this turned out to be a simple fix. I remember when the Neptunes first came out. I really wanted one, but it was too expensive at that time so I opted for a Frigidaire FL which was also a great machine, electro mechanical controls and never failed to SPIN. I hope you can keep your Neptunes running for years to come.

Eddie

Maytag Neptune Mah4000 was one the best I have ever purchased new!!!! Did everything laundry! Quick, clean, and Quiet. Sorry it's gone. 19 years of service was good. Still had A608 and DE608 for back up. All retired now! Sadly.

Maytag Neptune stack laundry problems

Hi Ralph, hopefully the machine will behave, the inlet valve in this machine has four solenoids. It delivers hot cold or a combination with the first two valves. The second two valves one is for the bleach exclusively, and one is for the fabric softener dispenser.

Have you opened up this panel and taken out the instruction sheet there’s a huge instruction sheet in this machine. You’ll need most of your dining room table to fold it out but it’s quite interesting. You can diagnose some problems yourself it’s behind the slanted panel directly under the control panel. Just two little Philip screws. Remove that panel to access the instructions.

Years ago, I gave my older brother Jerry and his partner one of these in gas in Minnesota. My brother Jerry is a quality control engineer in the electronics industry and we had several problems with his the first thing that went bad. Was the motor had to be replaced and updated with the newer motor and motor board and then the main Computer above the dryer which controls just the washer had to be replaced other than that the machine ran without problems until the bearings went bad in the washer three or four years ago. They continued to let it sit there and use the dryer as they had a separate Speed Queen front load washer And it Maytag stream of heat gas dryer in addition to the . Stack Neptune.

I remember when my brother Jerry and I worked on that machine. He was absolutely blown away with how crude and old-fashioned. The electrical system was the way Maytag linked together a mechanical timer with the electronics. It was way behind the technology curve, even when it was introduced nobody else ever tried to make such a crazy system. It was almost like the fuel injection system on my 1981 imperial.

Needless to say, Maytag should’ve paid outside engineers to design this electrical system. This is why the whirlpool duet and every other front loader for that matter was far more successful and trouble free.

I only know of a handful of customers that still have one of these and they’re all in homes where they get very light use with just water maybe two people other than that It’s an interesting piece of history, which is why we have a gas one in the museum, which we will keep running to show people what was made.

John L

Thanks John for that interesting story and information about the instruction sheet. This will come in handy if there are more issues down the road. You managed to shatter my no-nonsense design perception of Newton Maytags, and Neptunes in particular! I hope the oddball circuitry of motor, control board and computer continues to hold up for a while longer.

I don't think this pair has ever seen a lot of use. Even with an additional person in the household for almost a year now, the machines can often go for as long as a week without any use, so maybe they'll last me for at least a few more years.

The dryer uses gas, which I prefer from a cost perspective. I suspect the infamous wax motor was replaced long ago. Meanwhile, today I'll continue using both the Neptune and the 712 today to finish the backed up laundry with the peace of mind knowing they're operating at their best once again.