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phillymatt53

phillymatt53

Well-known member
Joined
Apr 10, 2025
Messages
1,378
Location
Philadelphia Pa
I love riding in Waymos and I trust them more than a human driver! Whenever I'm in San Francisco I always use Waymos to get around the city if I'm not walking or taking BART.

I've been very impressed at how Waymo has handled some unusual and non-standard situations, including two women standing in the middle of the road having a shouting match -- one woman would turn and walk towards the kerb while the other shouted a retort, causing the retreating woman to stop half way across and walk back for more. This is the kind of thing that a human can interpret and predict pretty accurately but Waymo handled it no problem. Perhaps Waymo is used to the unpredictable nature of the San Francisco gentry LOL.

I have also experienced Waymo doing a few odd things too.
 
Marky_Mark said:
I love riding in Waymos and I trust them more than a human driver! Whenever I'm in San Francisco I always use Waymos to get around the city if I'm not walking or taking BART.

I've been very impressed at how Waymo has handled some unusual and non-standard situations, including two women standing in the middle of the road having a shouting match -- one woman would turn and walk towards the kerb while the other shouted a retort, causing the retreating woman to stop half way across and walk back for more. This is the kind of thing that a human can interpret and predict pretty accurately but Waymo handled it no problem. Perhaps Waymo is used to the unpredictable nature of the San Francisco gentry LOL.

I have also experienced Waymo doing a few odd things too.
Click to expand...
Odd things?
It's a machine controlled by a computer.
 
I'm keen on the implementation but do have reservations on the legal liabilities if and when something goes wrong which I've read has happened where people have been hurt. I think, don't quote me, that in California the companies operating these vehicles are not responsible? How are the algorithms written to deal with a situation say where the waymo is about to be hit by a speeding oncoming car, does it stop and get hit, does it make a quick sharp turn to the right and run over kids standing on the curb, make a left into the oncoming lane etc etc etc. What if something screws up with the programming and it just starts accelerating and smashes into something, or people. So many possibilities that aren't wholly clear. There's a difference between an autonomous robotic vehicle and a new car with self driving capabilities because the human driver of a self driving car in self driving mode is still responsible, can act, and is still required to be paying attention. My only experience at the lower level is the lane centering on my car which I use but it requires me to keep my hands on the wheel for the most part.. I get about 20 or 30 seconds before the warnings start to do so or it shuts off.
 
I did a study out this summer out at U-M in Ann Arbor (they have an autonomous test lab out away from campus) on bodily stress in autonomous vehicles. Essentially they took me for two different autonomous rides (each about 10-12 mins) at varying speeds (one was slow and gentle, one was faster and....edgier (took corners faster, etc) while I was wired up....tested my saliva....did a self-report survey...kind of interesting.
 
petek said:
I'm keen on the implementation but do have reservations on the legal liabilities if and when something goes wrong which I've read has happened where people have been hurt. I think, don't quote me, that in California the companies operating these vehicles are not responsible? How are the algorithms written to deal with a situation say where the waymo is about to be hit by a speeding oncoming car, does it stop and get hit, does it make a quick sharp turn to the right and run over kids standing on the curb, make a left into the oncoming lane etc etc etc. What if something screws up with the programming and it just starts accelerating and smashes into something, or people. So many possibilities that aren't wholly clear. There's a difference between an autonomous robotic vehicle and a new car with self driving capabilities because the human driver of a self driving car in self driving mode is still responsible, can act, and is still required to be paying attention. My only experience at the lower level is the lane centering on my car which I use but it requires me to keep my hands on the wheel for the most part.. I get about 20 or 30 seconds before the warnings start to do so or it shuts off.
Click to expand...
I'm glad that you brought those potential issues up.
Because relying on something fully controlled by electronics is a risk I'd rather not have to deal with.
Plus, the increases that I've noticed in how human drivers are being careless, speeding, racing down residential streets, blasting boom-boom music, etc.
And around here we've had numerous hit-and-run fatalities, almost one per week in Philly.
These things weren't troublesome before, now they make Top Story News frequently.

As far as responsibility of the company that these robo-vehicles come from, I would think it would certainly be mandatory.
You mentioned California possibly not making this a law?
That's being utterly irresponsible!
Then why require humans to even have a valid license to drive?
Of ourse, California's been a laughing stock of the whole country for decades now, it wouldn't surprise me.
That state's got a solid reputation for endless issues and rediculous legislation.
And look at the governor there.... a real nitwit.
 
This "Waymo" vehicle doesn't have a brain or eyes to instantly determine a situation like a human would.
Click to expand...

And the average human doesn't have 360° laser distance measuring capabilities to create an accurate 3D maps of their surroundings. It also doesn't get dazzled by the sun and is not distracted by a mobile phone or a scantily dressed female, or drink drive, or get bored. In some circumstances they may even perform better than humans. Where it could potentially fall down is in correctly interpreting what it "sees", but I'd be more willing to trust their Lidar based system, than one that relies on cameras, like the Cybertrucks.

Ai anomalies and programming errors are a potential cause for concern, no doubt it has multiple redundant systems to try to mitigate that and hope they don't all share a common flaw. I worked as a programmer for a building society for a while, fixing bugs in the overnight production software and occasionally working on some real time modules. Was good fun tracking down a few of the more obscure bugs, that had been causing callouts in the middle of the night for months.

The waymo parking lot videos are quite interesting though, I think someone should have designed them to recognise a fellow robotaxi, so they interact in a more coordinated fashion, instead of both trying to make room for each other.
 
phillymatt53 said:
Of ourse, California's been a laughing stock of the whole country for decades now, it wouldn't surprise me.
That state's got a solid reputation for endless issues and rediculous legislation.
And look at the governor there.... a real nitwit.
Click to expand...

Laughing stock? They have the fourth largest economy in the WORLD. Turn off FOX.
 
As a Native Californian I take great offense to the comments in reply #7. Our governor Gavin Newsom is a wonderful leader and would make an excellent president. California and our governor face the realities of the modern world and make the necessary changes to keep up with progress and fight pollution and climate change.

I’m proud to be a Californian and proud to live in a state that is always on the cutting edge of progress. If you don’t like California please just stay away from the Golden State, I can assure you your presence will not be missed.

Eddie
 
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me said:
And the average human doesn't have 360° laser distance measuring capabilities to create an accurate 3D maps of their surroundings. It also doesn't get dazzled by the sun and is not distracted by a mobile phone or a scantily dressed female, or drink drive, or get bored. In some circumstances they may even perform better than humans. Where it could potentially fall down is in correctly interpreting what it "sees", but I'd be more willing to trust their Lidar based system, than one that relies on cameras, like the Cybertrucks.

Ai anomalies and programming errors are a potential cause for concern, no doubt it has multiple redundant systems to try to mitigate that and hope they don't all share a common flaw. I worked as a programmer for a building society for a while, fixing bugs in the overnight production software and occasionally working on some real time modules. Was good fun tracking down a few of the more obscure bugs, that had been causing callouts in the middle of the night for months.

The waymo parking lot videos are quite interesting though, I think someone should have designed them to recognise a fellow robotaxi, so they interact in a more coordinated fashion, instead of both trying to make room for each other.
Click to expand...

It sounds like you're not particularly in favor of human travel or robotic devices.
Potential flaws on both sides of the fence apparently.

While seemingly impossible to correct, the human faults are due to various things that have been around for ages.
Other things have been recent distubances, like your mentioning of cellphones while driving.

I see this robo-car stuff as another corporate benefit, and suspect we'll eventually see how well the public fares from another technological device.

I've already seen how those Tesla cars have failed at times.
And who wants to sit for that extended time at some charging station?
When pumping some gasoline only takes a few minutes.
 
maytag85 said:
Prefer Checker Technology
Click to expand...
Ya know, back in 1975, for a short time, (one month) I took a job as a Yellow Cab driver.
Car number 2014, a 1971 Plymouth Satellite slant-6 four door - a real hunk of crap.
Gas gauge never worked, turn signals wonky, no AC, etc.
Night shift duty, I picked up real critters.
I kept a tire iron next to my seat which came in handy once for a drunken fool.
I had a woman's sick dog vomit on the back floor on the way to a vet.
Another woman, on the way to the hospital, almost had her baby in the back seat.
She broke water on the stretcher on the way into the ER.
I could go on, but you know what I had to deal with.
Oh, and I forgot to mention the very well-dressed black couple that I picked up at a fancy hotel, took them to PHL airport - fare was $15.70.
They thanked me and handed me $16.00. 😮

Much better job afterwords, dressed in a leisure suit selling stereo equipment in an audio salon, better money too!
 
Last edited:
phillymatt53 said:
Ya know, back in 1975, for a short time, (one month) I took a job as a Yellow Cab driver.
Car number 2014, a 1971 Plymouth Satellite slant-6 four door - a real hunk of crap.
Gas gauge never worked, turn signals wonky, no AC, etc.
Night shift duty, I picked up real critters.
I kept a tire iron next to my seat which came in handy once for a drunken fool.
I had a woman's sick dog vomit on the back floor on the way to a vet.
Another woman, on the way to the hospital, almost had her baby in the back seat.
She broke water on the stretcher on the way into the ER.
I could go on, but you know what I had to deal with.
Oh, and I forgot to mention the very well-dressed black couple that I picked up at a fancy hotel, took them to PHL airport - fare was $15.70.
They thanked me and handed me $16.00. 😮

Much better job afterwords, dressed in a leisure suit selling stereo equipment in an audio salon, better money too!
Click to expand...

And did'ja ever make $20, for a $2.50 fare?



(Matt, keep the change!)
 
I'm leery about Waymos driving in areas with relatively little rain and no snow/ice. I can't imagine these things driving around in the north under those conditions, including whiteout conditions. I see injuries and death involved with these.
 
We humans don't have a particularly good record when it comes to operating motor vehicles ourselves. Each day, in the USA alone:
120 people are killed in crashes (EVERY single day)
7,000 are injured
Tens of thousands of non-injury crashes
Tailbacks, enormous expense, crazy insurance premiums.

Personally, I would trust a Waymo in a whiteout over a human trying to use a single pair of old-fashioned eyes.
 
daveamkrayoguy said:
And did'ja ever make $20, for a $2.50 fare?



(Matt, keep the change!)
Click to expand...

Actually, I picked up a fare from a bar one night.
The man was crew member of a ship that was docked at a port in Philly.
He was desperate to get back to his ship, telling me it was going to leave port very soon.
He said he's pay me well if "I speeded it up".
So... I did... I tore down the avenue to the port, and when I got there, I realized that there were railroad tracks between the road and the shipyard.
The guy insisted that I drive over the tracks, so I did.
I got him to the ship, however I blue out a front tire and damaged the rim from jumping over the tracks.
The fare for the ride was only about $3, but he gave me a crumbled up bunch of bills amounting to $50.

I had to radio in to my dispatcher for a spare tire to be sent out to me, which another cab driver came to rescue me.
I mentioned in my previous post that I only had that job for a month, and that night was my last, since they fired me for damaging the cab.
 
maytag85 said:
The more humans rely on technology for basic tasks, the dumber and complacent they become.
Click to expand...
Ya got THAT right! ;)
I've already seen the results of that, years ago.

I was on the bus one day about 2012, headed to work at the shop.
My Lincoln was dead, in need of a new battery, so...
A young guy, maybe in his teens, was glued to his cellphone, and got up afor his stop, and as he was stepping off the bus, cellphone in his face, he tripped stepping off and fell flat on his face on the sidewalk.
The cellphone went flying and shattered.
The bus driver asked if he was ok.
He screams that his whole life is on that phone.
Several of us passengers laughed.
 
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qsd-dan said:
I'm leery about Waymos driving in areas with relatively little rain and no snow/ice. I can't imagine these things driving around in the north under those conditions, including whiteout conditions. I see injuries and death involved with these.
Click to expand...
But if these cars are using radar to "see" I would think that they would be able to see better than any human ever could ever see in fog, heavy rain or blowing snow. I also assume there will be a time where self driving cars in the vicinity of each other will be able to communicate their intentions of where and what they are about to do to other cars around them. It would allows cars to say, "I am braking hard in 5 seconds" or "I am changing lanes," allowing the cars around them to react before their sensors even visually detect the movement.
 
When safety calculations are made to determine whether something is "safe" or not, it is assumed that a human being makes a mistake every one thousand hours.
For electronic stuff, the minimum acceptable rate is one mistake every million hours, but if human lives are involved, it must be no more than one mistake every billion hours.
But sadly the rules are applied quite "easily" for cars.
 
Unimatic1140 said:
"I am braking hard in 5 seconds"
Click to expand...
That's one of many concerns, especially on ice. Braking hard on ice will cause the vehicle to spin end for end. How will it respond in heavy rain and hydroplaning? Read the manual in all vehicles with cruise control and it explains why using it strictly prohibited in the rain. Are self driving cars programmed to recognize and handle that?
 
qsd-dan said:
That's one of many concerns, especially on ice. Braking hard on ice will cause the vehicle to spin end for end. How will it respond in heavy rain and hydroplaning? Read the manual in all vehicles with cruise control and it explains why using it strictly prohibited in the rain. Are self driving cars programmed to recognize and handle that?
Click to expand...

Yes I complete agree with you Dan, however Waymo just placed about a dozen test cars on the streets of Minneapolis so we will know soon enough. We've had the coldest start to winter in 15 years here this year. It hasn't come above freezing since Nov 25 and it doesn't look like it's going to come above freezing in the next 10 days. The streets have already have compacted snow now as they usually do in Jan and Feb which melts quickly in March. We will know soon enough how well these cars perform, its going to be very interesting to watch!

 
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phillymatt53 said:
Ya know, back in 1975, for a short time, (one month) I took a job as a Yellow Cab driver.
Car number 2014, a 1971 Plymouth Satellite slant-6 four door - a real hunk of crap.
Gas gauge never worked, turn signals wonky, no AC, etc.
Night shift duty, I picked up real critters.
I kept a tire iron next to my seat which came in handy once for a drunken fool.
I had a woman's sick dog vomit on the back floor on the way to a vet.
Another woman, on the way to the hospital, almost had her baby in the back seat.
She broke water on the stretcher on the way into the ER.
I could go on, but you know what I had to deal with.
Oh, and I forgot to mention the very well-dressed black couple that I picked up at a fancy hotel, took them to PHL airport - fare was $15.70.
They thanked me and handed me $16.00. 😮

Much better job afterwords, dressed in a leisure suit selling stereo equipment in an audio salon, better money too!
Click to expand...

Oh, your iron stick:

Well, I often need that sort of tactical gear for the sometimes near-violent weirdos I get, when I do my job...

Hard to believe we took away that plexiglass that didn't cover everywhere where it needs to and because of the often vehement public behavior these days really needs to more than ever now!
 
Last edited:
Marky_Mark said:
We humans don't have a particularly good record when it comes to operating motor vehicles ourselves. Each day, in the USA alone:
120 people are killed in crashes (EVERY single day)
7,000 are injured
Tens of thousands of non-injury crashes
Tailbacks, enormous expense, crazy insurance premiums.

Personally, I would trust a Waymo in a whiteout over a human trying to use a single pair of old-fashioned eyes.
Click to expand...
I can second that by how many people have tried to merge INTO me for the 12yrs I owned my RED Charger. The most visible car I’ve owned, and yet the one with the most of this risk. Very odd. Humans are odd.
 

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