1/2 Horsepower and 3/4 Horsepower motors for washers

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norgechef

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Jan 27, 2012
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305
Location
Saint George New Brunswick
I was wondering why some washers would need a 3/4 HP motor to run properly and most only need a 1/2 HP motor or smaller?

For example I have a Crosley washer in storage and it has a 3/4 HP motor, the suspension and pump are the same as in a norgetag washer but the transmission is a 100% norge transmission and underneath it is a 3/4 HP motor. When I was using this machine as my daily driver the power bills seemed to be a bit higher than normal, especially if I was doing laundry in Hot water.

Once I put it away and brought in the norgetag with the 1/2 HP motor the power bills seemed to go back down to normal. My question is, why would a washer that is almost identical to the other need a 3/4 horsepower motor? Is the transmission on a Norge harder to turn or something? I don't get it, seems like they just put it on there so the washer had more power or something...Does anybody know why they would have used a 3/4 Horsepower motor on this washer? I just don't see the point...

norgechef++8-21-2013-10-04-7.jpg.png
 
yeah...if anything it is a sales gimmick....some people wanted something really heavy duty that could, in their minds, handle major daily use...

I though the Norges of the 80's big gimmick was a 1 HP motor, I know one guy who searched for and bought his because of the 1HP motor to handle his greasy mechanic work clothes best....one of the only machines I ever knew that had one that huge...

it was definately a louder machine....
 
A little off-topic, but this reminds me of when I was looking for a WP direct drive for my bro. The higher models said something like a 3.4 to a 4.0 cubic ft tub. I sure didn't fall for that, but I'm sure others did. 
 
How would I switch out the motors?

Would it be possible to install a 1/2 Horsepower in one of these washers? The 1/2 Horsepower motors have the updated connector that plugs into the motor(whatever its called) so im not sure if there would be any way of hooking it up but next time I put the washer back into use I would like to have it run quieter and be a little more efficient, I also read on another post that the 3/4 HP motors short out timers and water level switches so if there is any way to put in a 1/2 horsepower motor id like to install one in the Crosley. Here is a pic of the 1/2 HP norgetag motor with the new wire connector/receptacle.

norgechef++8-21-2013-12-28-12.jpg.png
 
It may all be in the marketing. I'm not sure I always trust the name plate hp ratings, its a bit like the games that were played back in the 70's with audio power output. This is especially true today with how they are selling air compressors and shop vacuums, 5 hp from a 15amp 120v circuit, uh huh... The other leg plays Jingle Bells

As for the power consumption I can't imagine that you would see the difference in your utility bills unless you run the washer nearly constantly. Just running a few guestimated numbers, if you did 5 loads a week for a year with $.11/kwh electricity, the total difference in cost would be ~$7 over the year. About what many AC powered alarm clocks might use in a year.

If you want to downsize the motor to save electricity, you probably could, more or less its just a mechanical swap. But have you covered all the low-hanging efficiency fruit in your home already? Replacing one frequently used incandescent light bulb with say an LED lamp would save a lot more power in a year then this motor swap would.
 
Well....

The Crosley uses 139 KWH a month, that's in a MONTH...the Maytag/Norgetag with the 1/2 HP motor is rated 639 KWH a year so I always assumed it was the 3/4 HP motor that was pulling most of the power on the Crosley, guess it could be the timer or something? And no I don't run the washer constantly, at the time the washer was in use it was probably around 8 loads a week.
 
Where do you get the 139 and 639 Kw/h numbers from, re they actually measured or what?

Your numbers show the 3/4hp machine using 62% more power then the 1/2hp unit. The difference between the typical 1/2 & 3/4hp motors should only be about 25-30%. So if your numbers are true, something else is in play here.

I'd love to see actual amp draw on both machines while running.
 
Call me skeptical but I just don't buy those numbers. Its just far more difference then I think there can be, something is amiss.

If you don't own a Kill-A-Watt then you should buy one. They are WELL worth their ~$25 price as you can test to see where you are using power. Then you can compare machines directly under your own actual usage conditions. Anything else is just guessing.

 
"I always assumed it was the 3/4 HP motor that was pulling most of the power on the Crosley, guess it could be the timer or something?"

Timers don't use any power, (their just switches, not loads) other than the motor that turns them which typically use about 3 watts.
 
Remember, the Energy Guide labels cover not just the motor consumption, but water, too. I assume that the largest part of a washer's energy use is going to be hot/warm water, more than the power drawn by the motor.

"The new test procedure for clothes washers reflects changes in usage patterns. For example, consumers are washing fewer loads of laundry using hot water than was the case a few years ago, when the current procedure was developed. The test procedure will also take into account how much energy would be saved in the dryer by clothes washers that are designed to extract more water from the clothes due to higher spin speeds. As a result of these changes, the new test procedure will likely produce energy consumption ratings that are lower than those yielded by the existing test procedure, even for the same model of clothes washer."

 
Energy Star

I would figure the energy star difference may have something to do with hot water usage more than motor size.

The Speed Queen Imperials have a 1 hp motor in them.

Malcolm
 
Looking at the two motor tags you see there is a ~21% difference in the power consumption on the two motors. No where near the 60+% difference you are talking about from the EnergyGuide numbers, John and Malcom are correct that electrical power drawn by the appliance is only part of the calculated cost.

The cost to run either machine in electricity won't differ by more then $10 a year. I'd certainly say there is no real advantage to be gained by swapping the motors. Perhaps if you heat your water with electricity that could influence your utility bills!
 
Energy Rating Label

Is almost only the cost of heating the water used, that's why there is such a big difference between using the washer with a gas or an electric water heater.

 

I am not even sure they even measured power draw of the motor for these older ratings, But one thing is certain IT IS NOT THE MOTOR that caused the difference in the rating tags.
 
For comparison using the use numbers you gave, machine runs 8x week. 8x52 = 416 cycles per year. Rounding to half hour cycles, 416/2 = 208 hours per year.

Label #1, for every hour it runs (high speed for both) 120x10.8 = 1.296 kWh.
1.296x208 = 270kWh per year. Average cost @12c per kWh, cost to operate the motor for a year $32.40.

Label #2, for every hour it runs (high speed for both) 120x8.5 = 1.02 kWh.
1.02x208 = 212 kWh per year. Average cost @12c per kWh, cost to operate the motor for a year $25.44.

Difference between motors, $32.40-$25.44 = $6.96 a year or $0.58 a month. Your nephew visiting you for a week and opening the fridge door every 15 minutes makes a lot more difference than $0.58. So do longer/shorter days by season, not to mention temperatures.

The motor labels are calculated by UL in a lab using instruments. The government labels are "calculated" using data AND formulas supplied by manufacturers. Rather like car mileage stickers. Do you believe those?

So if you could retrofit the smaller motor in a half hour (you can't) it would take you TWO YEARS of "savings" off your bill just to pay for your time @$15/hr. If the retrofit takes all afternoon--you've already spent the half hour--it will NEVER pay for itself unless you are a foodserver making $2 an hour.

AND if the machine is designed for a large motor, substituting a smaller one could cost you a whole motor. IOW, leave it alone.
 
Other side of the 'Pond'

Being from the U.K., I have never seen a U.S. style toploader 'in the flesh', and I am fascinated by the description of Motors in this thread. 1725/1140 rpm corresponds to 4-pole/6-pole windings (which would be 1440/950 rpm here). Since I understand that toploaders have a 'transmission', surely a change of gear ratio here would enable use of a single speed motor??

Our FL washers (when they use an induction motor) use a single belt/pulley combination, with widely differing motor speeds to achieve wash/spin. Usual speeds being 570rpm (10-pole) and 2880rpm (2-pole).

Some launderette (laundromat) machines here (usually branded 'Rex' IIRC), used an even wider ratio of speeds in their larger and heavier motors. Something like 14 or 16 pole and 2-pole, to provide better extraction.

At least one manufacturer (no idea who, I just have a motor 'in stock') increased the available ratio (and hence spin speed) by using a motor pulley with a built-in epicyclic reduction gearbox and centrifugal clutch. In operation, at the lower speed the gearing reduces the speed still further, while at spin speed the centrifugal clutch locks (bypasses) the reduction gear to provide a higher spin speed via the large diameter pulley.

I am considering fitting this motor to my WH818....

Hope this is at least vaguely interesting to some of you.

Dave T
 

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