And then finally, close-ups of the fridge, cooktop and oven/microwave
1 Year Later with new KitchenAid kitchen
- Thread starter murando531
- Start date
Help Support :
The cooktop knobs to me are reminiscent to the extremely early JennAir downdraft cooktops.
iiijohnnymaciii
Well-known member
I love how you incorporated your Power Clean into your kitchen. I would love to have 2 dishwashers if I had room. Most days I have to wash my pots and pans by hand.
Absolutely gorgeous kitchen Andrew!!! Was it expensive to reconfigure the layout? And looking forward to hearing more about your other appliances.
to murando531...
What were your findings with this dishwasher?
What were your findings with this dishwasher?
@littlegreeny - Not as much as we would have thought, but we handled the majority of the work to rearrange the wiring and plumbing for the fridge, which wasn't too difficult at all. The only parts we left to be professionally done were the addition of the second 20A line for the upper oven, and the gas line to the kitchen. Our house already had existing gas hookup for the fireplace, but to add the additional for the cooktop required a change to the diameter of our main supply, and legally that all has to be done professionally anyway to stay within code. Otherwise, we handled the demo with help, donated the cabinets and old appliances, except the fridge and obviously my cherished PowerClean (the fridge went to my grandparents' to replace their 2003 Kenmore Elite that was hanging by a thread).
We also took care of repairing and leveling all the drywall in the areas that were going to be clear of upper cabinets, painting, and all the plumbing and appliance installs. The cabinets and the countertop were contracted because of the specialized tools and experience a professional is going to have and the finesse and finish that comes with that, that my husband and I just wouldn't have been comfortable doing alone (and would have taken us 4-5x the time and probably more money).
We also took care of repairing and leveling all the drywall in the areas that were going to be clear of upper cabinets, painting, and all the plumbing and appliance installs. The cabinets and the countertop were contracted because of the specialized tools and experience a professional is going to have and the finesse and finish that comes with that, that my husband and I just wouldn't have been comfortable doing alone (and would have taken us 4-5x the time and probably more money).
So now for my weird dishwasher issue.
Over the past couple of months, I've been trudging through a tub of Costco-Kirkland "Platinum Clean" pacs. Overall they've done fine; they clean very well and leave minimal residue. I think Cascade's Complete and Platinum still has the upper edge in overall performance, but these are better than I'd expect and they save a little money.
Well, for a few weeks now, I've noticed that the upper wash arm of my machine has slowed in rotation compared to the past year of ownership. The upper arm is the most noticeable wash level on this machine's design, because the downward-aimed jets that are directed over the silverware basket are quite high in pressure, so as they sweep over the front of the tub, you can hear them hitting the very points at the corners where the door meets the tub bottom. They're much quieter if you have bowls or something loaded right along the front of the lower basket.
That said, it's pretty easy to know when something sounds off. And definitely easy to hear when that arm has stopped altogether, which has now been happening frequently, to the point of every cycle. But only after the dispenser door opens. Nearly every cycle, when the upper arm is active, it'll be rotating just fine, but when the dispenser opens and that detergent starts mixing into the water, the arm will gradually get slower, and over the course of a couple of minutes will stop altogether, still spraying at full blast, which is especially noticeable when it's sitting aimed right at the door. I'll open the door to investigate and there's NOTHING blocking it from turning. So I've done some monitoring and got the trusty camera out to see exactly what was happening, and sure enough, the arm literally just slows to a crawl and finally just..stops. I took a video and uploaded it from my phone, so it's not clipped or edited, but you can watch how the lower arm rotates just fine, but switches to the upper and stalls, with no drop in pressure. There's no sudsing (which you can see briefly on the bottom), the water level is at the proper level (which shouldn't be an issue either given this machine's flowmeter inlet design).
Here's the video. You'll see it do the four test pulses at restart, then the lower arm for a short bit, and then will switch to the upper until it stalls.
Over the past couple of months, I've been trudging through a tub of Costco-Kirkland "Platinum Clean" pacs. Overall they've done fine; they clean very well and leave minimal residue. I think Cascade's Complete and Platinum still has the upper edge in overall performance, but these are better than I'd expect and they save a little money.
Well, for a few weeks now, I've noticed that the upper wash arm of my machine has slowed in rotation compared to the past year of ownership. The upper arm is the most noticeable wash level on this machine's design, because the downward-aimed jets that are directed over the silverware basket are quite high in pressure, so as they sweep over the front of the tub, you can hear them hitting the very points at the corners where the door meets the tub bottom. They're much quieter if you have bowls or something loaded right along the front of the lower basket.
That said, it's pretty easy to know when something sounds off. And definitely easy to hear when that arm has stopped altogether, which has now been happening frequently, to the point of every cycle. But only after the dispenser door opens. Nearly every cycle, when the upper arm is active, it'll be rotating just fine, but when the dispenser opens and that detergent starts mixing into the water, the arm will gradually get slower, and over the course of a couple of minutes will stop altogether, still spraying at full blast, which is especially noticeable when it's sitting aimed right at the door. I'll open the door to investigate and there's NOTHING blocking it from turning. So I've done some monitoring and got the trusty camera out to see exactly what was happening, and sure enough, the arm literally just slows to a crawl and finally just..stops. I took a video and uploaded it from my phone, so it's not clipped or edited, but you can watch how the lower arm rotates just fine, but switches to the upper and stalls, with no drop in pressure. There's no sudsing (which you can see briefly on the bottom), the water level is at the proper level (which shouldn't be an issue either given this machine's flowmeter inlet design).
Here's the video. You'll see it do the four test pulses at restart, then the lower arm for a short bit, and then will switch to the upper until it stalls.
seems like theres a lot of water spraying out of the upper wash arm mount, but I also wonder if the pac is somehow fouling the pump, IE not dissolving fully or something. have you tried normal powder or gel yet to see if the symptom continues? or maybe run a cycle with no detergent?
So fast forward to now, I've ditched the Costco pacs; gave the half tub to our neighbor because they could care less how the machine is working (they've replaced their dishwasher twice since we've lived here and they've all been the cheapest contractor-special WPs and GEs you can buy). I went and bought a small thing of Cascade Complete pacs, because in all my years using and owning dishwashers, I've never had a complaint or issue with their pac based detergents, other than Platinum seeming a bit overkill and sudsing, and I've now run 4 full cycles with this machine without any issue. The upper arm sounds just as perky and spry as it's always been.
Until just today, I had about a half load of dishes that needed to just go ahead and run, because we've been busy and I don't want dirty dishes sitting more than a couple of days and smelling rank, and I decided to try using a half dispenser dose of the Great Value powder I've had in an air tight container to use as occasional prewash and to soak really stubborn pots or baking dishes in the sink. I'll be d*mned if I'm not sitting at the kitchen table working through bills and listening to the dishwasher and the upper arm starts the same gradual slowdown and finally stops. It took three wash level changes to finally get the arm to slowly start rotating again and back to normal. During any of this, the lower arm, the upper spinner, and the spray tubes all rotate just fine.
Two things I will add that I've tried with this situation so far:
1. The upper arm assembly on this new platform does NOT come apart. I have to say, the GlobalWash did it best with the easy quarter-turn locking nuts on both arms. On this new design, the lower comes out easily with a counterclockwise turn, but the upper seems permanently installed. I've tried tightening the center hub where the metal arm meets the plastic center, and it'll move barely, but I'm not sure it's doing anything because I have no clue if it's even threaded, or just a snap in, and I'm scared to force anything for fear of breaking and ruining the whole manifold. That said, "tightening" it seemed to help slightly with the blow-by of water from the center, but not that much. This is definitely a disappointment for me with Whirlpool, one for taking a step back with no way to easily remove the upper arm, and two for the amount of spewing from the center hub. The GlobalWash design was far superior with very minimal leaking.
2. I tried swapping in the Whirlpool version upper arm, because these arm and manifold assemblies do easily unlock from the rack. The plastic arm also doesn't have the issue of the metal one where there's a plastic-to-metal connection; it seems to be just the arm connected into the supply manifold. I'm unsure if either arm design has any sort of nylon bearing inside to help with rotation and sealing.
Anyway, the plastic arm did the SAME THING. Did just fine rotating until the detergent dispensed, and slowed to a stop. Again, no pressure drop, no sudslocking, nothing. No change in motor sound or speed.
So my official conclusion with all of this is that I'm officially done with any generic branded detergents, even as "nice" as Costco or Sam's makes their brand pacs to be. There's obviously something in them, be it just cheaper ingredients or some kind of very microscopically fine silt they use as filler for weight, but it's obviously causing some kind of friction in this wash arm's center hub, and if it's doing this to the wash arm, what is it also doing to my motor seals and diverter? It's even more evident given that with the Cascade Complete pacs, even the first wash made a night and day difference in the sound and rotation of all three wash arms, along with having no residues to speak of on the machine's tub surfaces.
I'm sure Technology Connections would hate me saying this after his videos about dishwasher pacs on Youtube, but I have to disagree that the cheaper detergents work "just as well" as the brand names. There's obviously something in those pretty Cascade colors that not only cleans and shines better, but is better for the machine's health as well.
Until just today, I had about a half load of dishes that needed to just go ahead and run, because we've been busy and I don't want dirty dishes sitting more than a couple of days and smelling rank, and I decided to try using a half dispenser dose of the Great Value powder I've had in an air tight container to use as occasional prewash and to soak really stubborn pots or baking dishes in the sink. I'll be d*mned if I'm not sitting at the kitchen table working through bills and listening to the dishwasher and the upper arm starts the same gradual slowdown and finally stops. It took three wash level changes to finally get the arm to slowly start rotating again and back to normal. During any of this, the lower arm, the upper spinner, and the spray tubes all rotate just fine.
Two things I will add that I've tried with this situation so far:
1. The upper arm assembly on this new platform does NOT come apart. I have to say, the GlobalWash did it best with the easy quarter-turn locking nuts on both arms. On this new design, the lower comes out easily with a counterclockwise turn, but the upper seems permanently installed. I've tried tightening the center hub where the metal arm meets the plastic center, and it'll move barely, but I'm not sure it's doing anything because I have no clue if it's even threaded, or just a snap in, and I'm scared to force anything for fear of breaking and ruining the whole manifold. That said, "tightening" it seemed to help slightly with the blow-by of water from the center, but not that much. This is definitely a disappointment for me with Whirlpool, one for taking a step back with no way to easily remove the upper arm, and two for the amount of spewing from the center hub. The GlobalWash design was far superior with very minimal leaking.
2. I tried swapping in the Whirlpool version upper arm, because these arm and manifold assemblies do easily unlock from the rack. The plastic arm also doesn't have the issue of the metal one where there's a plastic-to-metal connection; it seems to be just the arm connected into the supply manifold. I'm unsure if either arm design has any sort of nylon bearing inside to help with rotation and sealing.
Anyway, the plastic arm did the SAME THING. Did just fine rotating until the detergent dispensed, and slowed to a stop. Again, no pressure drop, no sudslocking, nothing. No change in motor sound or speed.
So my official conclusion with all of this is that I'm officially done with any generic branded detergents, even as "nice" as Costco or Sam's makes their brand pacs to be. There's obviously something in them, be it just cheaper ingredients or some kind of very microscopically fine silt they use as filler for weight, but it's obviously causing some kind of friction in this wash arm's center hub, and if it's doing this to the wash arm, what is it also doing to my motor seals and diverter? It's even more evident given that with the Cascade Complete pacs, even the first wash made a night and day difference in the sound and rotation of all three wash arms, along with having no residues to speak of on the machine's tub surfaces.
I'm sure Technology Connections would hate me saying this after his videos about dishwasher pacs on Youtube, but I have to disagree that the cheaper detergents work "just as well" as the brand names. There's obviously something in those pretty Cascade colors that not only cleans and shines better, but is better for the machine's health as well.
I wonder if the generic detergent is plugging some of the holes on the microfilter and taking a while to dissolve/dislodge from the filter? the motor rpm wouldn't change significantly and the flow might decrease barely enough to prevent the arm from turning.
It reminds me of the problems I've had with a couple of those cheap plastic impulse lawn sprinklers where they'd work for a while and then stop rotating altogether even though you can freely spin them, plus leaking around the center hub, just like that spray arm seems to be doing.
pierreandreply4
Well-known member
murando531
if you have this dishwasher detergent brand i highly reccomend it thats what i use in my kitchenaid dishwasher and wash perfectly you can alsoorder it on amazon if not in your local stores
if you have this dishwasher detergent brand i highly reccomend it thats what i use in my kitchenaid dishwasher and wash perfectly you can alsoorder it on amazon if not in your local stores
mark_wpduet
Well-known member
Hey!!
It's so weird you brought this up...I've been using Finish powerball for YEARS...When I was getting low, I thought I'd try Costco Kirkland pacs. They clean really well and leave NO film at all..but what I do notice is they leave a slight smell on the glasses...Like this faint hint of it and that drives me CRAZY..Powerball did not do this.
I haven't noticed any problems...I'd say I've done maybe 25 loads with the costco pacs so far...not nearly half a tub of them though...I planned on using them all and then just going back to powerball...but not if it's going to ruin my dishwasher..It doesn't seem to be harming it at all though. Sounds the same as it always has.
It's so weird you brought this up...I've been using Finish powerball for YEARS...When I was getting low, I thought I'd try Costco Kirkland pacs. They clean really well and leave NO film at all..but what I do notice is they leave a slight smell on the glasses...Like this faint hint of it and that drives me CRAZY..Powerball did not do this.
I haven't noticed any problems...I'd say I've done maybe 25 loads with the costco pacs so far...not nearly half a tub of them though...I planned on using them all and then just going back to powerball...but not if it's going to ruin my dishwasher..It doesn't seem to be harming it at all though. Sounds the same as it always has.
Costco Platinum Clean
I have been using them for the first time and I actually really like them! No odor issues here. Every now and then the top rack will squeak when pulling it out, thats about it.
I have been using them for the first time and I actually really like them! No odor issues here. Every now and then the top rack will squeak when pulling it out, thats about it.
mark_wpduet
Well-known member
well
I don't notice any issues of any kind other than the slight smell...My machine sounds the same as it always has...I always run citric acid through it empty once a month or so on longest cycle...that really makes the racks slide better and cleans the inside of hard water..
I don't notice any issues of any kind other than the slight smell...My machine sounds the same as it always has...I always run citric acid through it empty once a month or so on longest cycle...that really makes the racks slide better and cleans the inside of hard water..
iiijohnnymaciii
Well-known member
With the longer cycles on newer machines and using rinse aid I haven’t found the need to use pacs. Cascade Powder seems to be more than adequate, cheaper, and easy on the pump. You could always try some powder and see how well things wash.
I noticed the slight smell on dishes from the Kirkland pacs also, and easily decided I'd not use them again because of that. I even considered returning them to Costco, but managed to get through the whole tub.
I thought the point of Technology Connections' videos was that dishwashers actually worked BETTER, not just as well, with detergent in the prewash, which you don't get by using a pac in the main wash only (as we all know). In any case, you know what's working well for you, so no reason not to stick with it.
I thought the point of Technology Connections' videos was that dishwashers actually worked BETTER, not just as well, with detergent in the prewash, which you don't get by using a pac in the main wash only (as we all know). In any case, you know what's working well for you, so no reason not to stick with it.
Thanks for the reply Andrew. It's wonderful you were able save money by doing many things yourselves and leaving the complicated stuff to the pros.
mark_wpduet
Well-known member
Weird I haven't used the powdered dishwasher detergent in FOREVER!! Maybe when I'm done with the packs...I'll get some powder instead...I'm not sure why I never thought to do that...
As for dish liquid. I've decided green Palmolive is my favorite...I discovered this because they were out of dawn at Costco... I actually like the Palmolive better. The smell is amazing.
As for dish liquid. I've decided green Palmolive is my favorite...I discovered this because they were out of dawn at Costco... I actually like the Palmolive better. The smell is amazing.
tomdawg
Well-known member
I’m a finish powerball user as well! Though, Costco recently switched to powerball quantum.. so far is cleans way better than the original powerball that I’ve used, plus it doesn’t smell.
I’ve used Kirkland as well, toward the end of the wash cycle, the upper spray arm would whine as it rotated. It was weird. It went away when I went back to the powerballs
As far as powder detergent, I was a die hard cascade complete fan. I felt they changed their detergent and it’s no longer that great. It always left a white film on my dishes. Keep in mind I only used 2 teaspoons in a load- that was with hard water. Now I have soft water and only use about a teaspoon in a load and comes out great!
I’ve used Kirkland as well, toward the end of the wash cycle, the upper spray arm would whine as it rotated. It was weird. It went away when I went back to the powerballs
As far as powder detergent, I was a die hard cascade complete fan. I felt they changed their detergent and it’s no longer that great. It always left a white film on my dishes. Keep in mind I only used 2 teaspoons in a load- that was with hard water. Now I have soft water and only use about a teaspoon in a load and comes out great!
Similar threads
