18" dishwasher tale of woe!

[firedome]

So our only 4 yr old Chinese-made POS Frigidaire (in name only!) 18" d/w has crapped out apparently. As long as the door is shut there's a constant subtle humming noise but none of the electronic controls will work even though the LEDs do light up. Trying to decide if its even worth having it looked at. I don't want to deal with it that's for sure, hey, it's not a vintage KA...LOL

So if it IS toast: I believe I read here once that all 18" d/w are made in China, I think it is by Danby? If so that's a sad state of affairs.

18" d/ws out there now range from Danby, just under $500, to over $1000 in price, all kinds of brands from Bosch, Electrolux, Frigidaire, Haier, Samsung, SPT (?) Danby, GE Profile (Haier). Summit (?), Avanti (?),Edge Star (?)...all kinds of oddball brands. So is there any 18" that's made by someone other than Danby, is that the only one? Who the hell is Danby anyhow? I'd prefer US made but is that even an option? And no over-priced over-engineered brands please. I know compacts are very common in NYC &c cities... what's one to do?? John combo52, or you other appliance repairers or dealers - any relevant experiences with 18"ers?

 

[petek]

Danby as far as I recall from years ago was, maybe still is, a Canadian company that back in the day sold compact fridges, window shakers etc. mostly at discount department and catalog stores. I'm not even sure if they ever made their appliances here.
Today there are numerous outfits over in China plonking out these products, Midea probably being the largest of all of them.

 

[rp2813]

Keep an eye out for something older made in the USA or Europe.  I see them on Nextdoor and CL once in a while.

 

[fisherpaykel]

18 inch dw

I see both Miele and Bosch are selling 18 inch models in USA at least some of which have a third cutlery rack so maybe they are not made in China, or if so perhaps built to higher quality.

 

[launderess]

Welcome to my world!

https://www.automaticwasher.org/cgi-bin/TD/TD-VIEWTHREAD.cgi?65606

https://www.automaticwasher.org/cgi-bin/TD/TD-VIEWTHREAD.cgi?53278

Small 18" dishwashers either portable or built in never where a huge part of North American market. That's why only Frigidaire (also sold as Kenmore) pretty much were only options.

This may have changed with trends towards even small kitchens having built in dishwashers. But aside from Miele and a few others known for producing their own products am going with many of the others are all sourced from same manufacturer.

Danby is all over the place with manufacturers in China, Turkey, India, etc... Their early products such as compact front load washers, dryers and dishwashers were a hit with many North American consumers. Can't say that is always true today.

Edgestar (made in China) also offers an 18" dw, which makes be believe Danby's units are sourced from same manufacturer.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Danby_(appliances)

https://www.reference.com/world-view/danby-appliances-fd67203dbb721c8e

https://www.guelphtoday.com/local-news/danby-to-make-products-in-canada-again-346153

https://www.productfrom.com/products/CN/Danby/0/2

 

[circlew]

My neighbor Judy has one of those unfortunate excuses for a dishwasher. Some piece has fallen off the bottom of the front, and won't stay on.

 

[bradfordwhite]

Roger, have you disconnected power to the unit?

This tends to reset electronic timers. Just simply unplug, turn off the switch, or breaker and let it sit for at least a half hour. Then try again.

It may be as simple as that.

Other than that, it could be a wire has worked it's way loose and simply checking that all are appropriately connected may be necessary.

I never leave appliances with electronic timers/controllers energized when not in use. Always have a hard break to protect it from lightning strikes and power surges. Or for appliances like water softeners with electronic timer, have it on a standard lamp timer so it's off for an hour a day which allows the timer to rest but not lose settings.

I had a similar problem with a Whirlpool duet that suddenly would freeze up. This happened a few times. It was after that that I learned to always disconnect after each use and never have had problems like that since.

Good luck.

 

[petek]

I recall looking at some 18" Kenmores which were obvious Danby's. Europe seems to get more selection in these sizes and for other things like 24" inch induction cooktops etc by Chinese companies that only do a small busines over here in N.American. Like Hi Sense.. we an get some tv's , a small electric stove, and fridge, but none of their smaller dishwashers . Same with Midea. Problem with them as I see it is servicing,, there is none that I know of.

 

[bradfordwhite]

No compacts made in U.S.

It seems the domestic large traditional appliance manufacturers have thrown in the towel on compact appliances,
bulked up what they do offer,
and pumped up the prices to make up for their declining market share.

I wouldn't buy any of these typical U.S. made, over priced, over sized appliances.

When you can get excellent deals on compact appliances sent direct to ones home.

I have no doubt that the Chinese will continue to refine, improve, and innovate appliances going forward.

The bulky over sized appliances rely on people who think bigger is somehow better. It isn't pretty. literally.

This pumping up the size and prices is familiar as that's what the U.S. auto manufacturers have been doing for the last couple of years. Instead of making compact, efficient cars that are affordable and the majority would buy; they've been putting their effort into hideous bulky, suv junk and pumped the prices to ridiculous levels.

Their sales continue to tank but the income from that they do manage to sell has been increasing. But that's not going to last long.

https://www.ebay.com/itm/5-Liter-Compact-Portable-Countertop-Dishwasher-360-Streak-Free-Deep-Cleaning/164394259615?hash=item2646a9549f:g:yfkAAOSwNU9faM-N

 

[combo52]

Best 18" DWs

Hi Roger, I would consider fixing your 4 YO FD if possible, if you get the part yourself it will be a lot cheaper than ditching the machine.

 

Currently nearly all the 18" machines on the market in the US are the same Chinese machine.

 

There are no good vintage 18" DWs available because none were ever built and sold in the US, D&M started building and selling 18" DWs about 35 years ago and they were always POS and the plastic tub FDs that followed were just about as bad.

 

You could go for a Bosch or a Miele 18" model if you want to spend a $1000 + just be sure that someone in your area wants to work on it.

 

PS, I have a lovely Miele 18" DW that you can have, it is 11 YO and have a broken plastic latch handle that is NLA so the customer had to replace it, I have  been unable to find the handle. It is  neat DW but very complex, it even has a built in water softener so you can use cheaper regular detergents.

 

John L.

 

[henene4]

Bosch appears to have recently overhauled their 18" lineup in the US with their new UI, so only place they come up at is Lowes at MSRP (849 the cheapest).

That issue you state does either sound like a PCB issue or if does have one like a flood protection responding.

If the machine has a closed bottom design there is a decent chance is has a float switch that shuts the machine down if the machine leaks internally.

 

[firedome]

thanks all...

Laundress, I think the exact models of the ones you had/mention are now nla.
Basically it's mostly limited to Chinese machines as mentioned by John it seems. I really dislike being so limited in choice. I'm inclined to avoid Miele/Bosch due to reports by some, initial cost, worry about repair costs and service, and given some very negative experiences with certain vaunted over-engineered German cars in the past.

Interestingly in our VT place we have basically the same machine as the FD here, but with GE nameplate, 3-4 yrs older, and with a mechanical timer. No problems yet, though it has seen more limited seasonal use. Wish we could buy an 18" with no electronic controls/timer, as it seems they are often the problem.

Brad, I did disconnect it, but only for a minute, and when I reconnected it it did it's usual "beep" to indicate power "on" but still behaves as before. Now the LED for whatever "cycle" is selected and the "washing" LED come on, but nothing happens except a faint hum. Normally the Start button lights also, and it does it's pump out then the new water fill. I'll disconnect it again for an hour and see what happens.

Interesting about having the power turned off when not in use, seems rather impractical though.

John, I'll probably do that, I'm hoping a service call and part will end up being less than $750 for a new black front 18" FD, but wondering about part availability for this bastard child. Generally we do prefer repair to replacement as a matter of principle, right now I'm just not inclined to delve into it, too electronic and my PMR makes doing much of anything difficult nowadays. I wish we had room in our teeny kitchen for the nice'74 KDC17 out in the shed but we'd lose a cabinet we can't spare, and there's no room for a portable.

 

[firedome]

Parts prices:

So likely parts prices for this thing are:

control board - $320
motor/pump assy: $350
drain pump $124

yikes! If one of those is bad + service call of, what, $150+? ... might as well go new at that point. Well at least if we got another FD we'll have a parts machine!
LOL!

Decisions...

 

[DADoES]

 
Have you searched the part numbers for prices at various sources, including eBay?  Are used parts a consideration?

 

[bradfordwhite]

"the power turned off when not in use, seems rather impractical though."

VS

Inconvenience of electronic appliance not working and the threat of
"control board - $320, motor/pump assy: $350, drain pump $124, yikes! If one of those is bad + service call of, what, $150+? ... might as well go new..."

Choose your weapon of self defense.

-----

I do the same with online computers, celphones, and similar by removing batteries at least once a week.

Its solved and prevented so many problems. Computers will hold errors and viruses. They need to be purged by cutting the energy that allows the virus (infection) to live.

 

[fisherpaykel]

Powered off or unplugged electronic controls between uses

Where I live in Vancouver BC Canada area older homes had garburator power switches inside the sink cabinet so when I replaced the 35 year old GE DW with a Fisher&Paykel DishDrawer I followed their install instructions and connected the former hard wire connection to a new switched outlet under the sink and we switch off after every use. Same with F&P GWL11 washer they said unplug between uses so that's what we do. 13 plus years for DW and 15 plus for washer no electronic issues, only replace washer's electric drain pump a couple years ago and that was an easy do it myself twist off twist on repair thanks to Glenn's "Dadoes" video. Thanks Glenn.

 

[circlew]

Wall switch for DW

In some places the electric code requires a switch in sight of the dishwasher if it's permanently wired in. If the appliance plugs in to a receptacle, then it's usually not required. The wall switch can be omitted if the circuit breaker is in sight, or can be locked out. I've also been in a house that had a wall switch for a clothes washer, as the receptacle was hidden behind the machine.

 

[bradfordwhite]

For something like a washing machine changing out that standard double outlet with this makes it real easy to turn off when not in use.

 

[bradfordwhite]

For things like water softener transformers, computers, low voltage charger stations, lawn sprinkler transformers, AV equipment, and modems

Have the item turn off for at least a half an hour a day when you know the items plugged into it won't be used.