Modern front load washers recirculating water over the load

[spinspeed]

I have 2 LG front load washers. Both spray wash and rinse water over the load throughout the cycle. One has a single spray port, the other has 4 spray ports around the boot. To me it seems like a very sensible efficient addition to the machine and would improve wash performance.

I just spent a lot of money on a new Fisher and Paykel washer / heat pump dryer combo. I am really disappointed it does not recirculate water over the load during the cycle. It just tumbles through a small pool of water in the bottom of the drum. It seems quite old fashioned. I kind of thought all modern front loading machines would have water recirculating over the load these days.

My first front load washer that did this was a Zanussi IZ 1600. I purchased it mid to late 90s I think. It was a fantastic machine and lasted for may years.

I cannot complain about the wash results from the new F & P, it washes really well. It has a massive 18kg drum.

Does the recirculating make much of a difference or is it a bit gimmicky? What other brands have the recirculation design? Interested to hear what other folk think about this.

 

[DADoES]

I suppose there's the angle against recirculation in a frontloader, which is sourced through the tub sump and presumably through the pump trap, for it pulling lint and potential bits of muck from the sump and trap and distributing it through the clothes?

 

[combo52]

I love the drama of water, splashing on the clothes, being recirculated, and it certainly may help get things wet a little faster when the cycle gets going, my old whirlpool built combos that do the recirculation and are fun to watch for sure.

But as a repair person having an additional pump to recirculate water is a potential problem waiting to happen, the Electrolux full-size front load machines in this country have three water pumps in them. It’s an absurd amount of complication in my opinion.

You also have the problem, especially with modern low water use machines of when you finally get the grit and sand out of the clothing. You don’t want to turn on a pump and dump it back onto the load, just like in dishwashers soil settling is a very real thing and it’s an effective way to get soil out of the wash, water, etc., and then pump it away each time it drains.

By far the best built in most reliable full size front load washer, you can buy in the United States is a Speed Queen and I’m glad they don’t do gimmicks like this. There’s no Wi-Fi connection. There’s no recirculation pumps it just gets the job done beautifully a year after your load after load, my older, Speed Queen is 20 years old never had to do a thing to it. My newer one is just five years old, but I don’t expect I’m ever gonna have a problem with it possibly in my lifetime.

John L

 

[henene4]

It also slightly changes detergent requirements.
Machines without recirculating systems long had those ball valves closing off the sump during fill so no detergent gets wasted.
That in turn means there is a physical separation between the water in the sump and in the drum. Less water to heat, less water to add detergent to.
The volume in sump, pump and hosing for recirculation is basically always in the realm of only half a gallon or something like that, so it's not much. But it does exist.


A lot of manufacturers took a long time for recirculation.
The main reason it's added is to saturate and distribute water, detergent and other additives quickly.
Every tumble lifts some water in the drum paddles and dumps ot over the load. That's the same as recirculation, just slower. Recirculation does the same, just quicker.
With very high loading ratios (more laundry per drum volume) saturation can become pretty long pretty quickly. That's where recirculation shines in my opinion.

Given that Haier does not use recirculation at all (besides their new compact heat pump combo in the EU apparently?!?) I was not surprised.
Basically, why add a pump and the controls if - given it's a combo - cycle times don't really matter since drying is the longer action anyway AND you don't stuff the drum anyway.
A washer dryer the way it's used is really the one place where IMO it matters less.

Also, as far as I have seen, Haier does not really skimp on water usage in their FLs.
There should be enough cycles makeing up for the lack of recirc with sheer water volume.

 

[launderess]

Recall reading something online many years ago now that stated when water levels for H-axis washers go below certain level then recirculation pumps almost become mandatory. Those systems help saturate/move what might be a comparatively small amount of water through wash.

 

[me]

I bought a machine with a recirculating pump (2009 Zanussi "Jetsystem") because my previous machine, which was a right lemon, struggled to get the washing wet without help.

It certainly gets the washing wet quicker than any of my previous machines, including ones that used a lot more water, and does a better job at washing bulky items. I've also never had any specks of detergent residue left on clothing with this machine. I would think it must help with washing and it does seem to help with rinsing. I would be reluctant to buy a modern low water usage machine without one.

 

[donprohel]

Electrolux full-size front load machines in this country have three water pumps in them.

Three pumps? One is the the drain pump, another is the recirculation pump, but the third? What is the third pump for? And how does it happen that in USA you need a pump more than in Europe?

 

[combo52]

The third pump just pumps the water around in circles in the sump to mix detergents etc.

 

[henene4]

Still can't see the original post by combo, I'm guessing.

But ELux has a third pump (calld OkoMix over here) to pre-dissolve detergent.
So Samsung machines have recirculation, so those have 3 pumps as well (drain, recirc, EcoBubble).

 

[donprohel]

The third pump just pumps the water around in circles in the sump to mix detergents etc.

But ELux has a third pump (calld OkoMix over here) to pre-dissolve detergent.

I don't think so.

ÖkoMix was described by Electrolux sometimes as a "valve", other times as a "technology" but always quite ambiguously; in my modest opinion, it is just one of the many features that Electrolux claims but do not have (I have seen a few).

It is true that this video seems to show the existence of a third pump, but curiously enough it is never stated that such a pump exists:


Below is the diagram of a top of the line Electrolux washing machine ("Electrical Equipment" section, see https://shop.electrolux.co.uk/search?q=:relevance:pnc:91453340500):
- number 6 is the drain pump (see https://shop.electrolux.co.uk/laund...ain-pump-with-thermal-cut-out/p/8583792418029)
- number 6A is the recirculation pump (see https://shop.electrolux.co.uk/laund...hine-recirculation-pump-assembly/p/1325100517).

The third pump is missing, and having owned some Electrolux washing machines, I have never thought there was a third pump.